1K$ Budget for a speaker upgrade

Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Having a floor stander will cause too much bass to protrude through the floor, which means the volume knob will rarely be able to go above 2.
You don't want no bass? :confused:

bass is less directional than other frequencies.
He don't want no bass. :D

Hey Ken, have I got the speakers for you !!! :)
The -3db thing happens at 100Hz ! Where else you gonna find that ?!? Huh? :eek:
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
He don't want no bass. :D
Imho OP wants true real concert like sound, with invisible speakers which played at reference volume, would not travel farther than the room they are in :D
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Thank you for your observations. The speakers are going to be placed on stands, but because of the layout of the room and two large pieces of furniture, they can only be located in the corners on each end of the 11.5 foot wall.

I have seen the two models of Aperion speakers mentioned in my research but had not considered them as if I go the "web route" I think my first choice would be the Ascend Acoustics Seirra-1s. They have received rave reviews in many web sites and publications, including one by the same Tom Audry whose comments you reference in your post (which I totally agree with): Seirra-1s

But who knows, if the Seirra-1s don't do it for me, and I am still searching maybe I will have a pair of the Aperions shipped my way.

Thanks again

Ken

I don't need no wah-wah
The Sierra-1 would also make my very short list at this budget, as would the Salk Surrounds. They are called surrounds, but that's just the name, a good speaker is a good speaker.



http://salksound.com/speakers_songseries_songsurround.shtml

If willing to spend more time researching, and you want to get the most for your dollar, I would consider looking into DIY. I myself have never built a speaker, so I have no guidance to offer you.


Lastly, it took a little hunting down, but TLS Guy gave these the thumbs up for the $1k mark, and as far as that guy is concerned, don't expect him to do that again any time soon.



http://www.flatearthaudio.com/atc_info.html
 
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exile_ken

Enthusiast
Yuk Yuk

Imho OP wants true real concert like sound, with invisible speakers which played at reference volume, would not travel farther than the room they are in :D
HaaHaaaaaa...Oh BS, your killiin' me. As my dad used to say, ever since Bob Hope made a million bucks, everybody wants to be a comedian.:p

That being said, the EMP Tek site was pretty cool. The prices are incredible for what looks like quality gear. I can’t do floor standers for the reasons I have mentioned (see photos below). What I am looking for is a good pair of bookshelf speakers that will project the music I love into the room I have in as true and musical manner as possible. They need to rock, no question, but also need to realistically present the instruments and vocals that are featured in the wide variety of music I enjoy. As far as a lack of subterranean bass goes, unless you listen to pipe organ music or orchestras with big, large, kettle drums, you’re not getting much below 40HZ anyway. Of course you could be one of those guys with the the dual sub woofers in the trunk of your car and the bass on your equalizer podded all the way to 11 to impress the motorists within a thousand feet of you. Most of the speakers I am looking at will roll of in the high 40s, low 50s, which for MY SITUATION is just fine.

Jostenmeat thank you for your opinion of the Sierra-1s and the other suggestions. I just read the story on the Flat Earth site and its pretty amazing. It seems like there are literally thousands of companies world wide that make, or believe that they make, or are trying to make people believe that they make, the most musical speakers in the world. So many speakers, so little time (and budget in my case).

For any others of you visiting this thread late in the game, or have been here and cant turn away from the train wreck, I have a few pictures which should do a much better job at showing what I am working with than me trying to explain.

First is the rig, second is the left speaker place behind the sofa. I think most will agree that floor standers are not a great option here. Third is the cd collection, which really has no bearing on any of this, but I thought I'd include it any way.

I am headed out of town for the three day weekend tomorrow afternoon, so this thread may go idle for a few days. Or not.

Ken

It's off to LAS VEGAS to check out the lounges
Pull a few handles, and drink a few beers.
 

Attachments

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ribonzz

Audioholic Intern
Try pioneer amp, it's good for use, only about 300..
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Good joke goes a long way, but on serious side:
Before spending $1000, which in my book = considerable amount of money,
I'd try to add some room treatments first.
You can find some inexpensive one at http://www.atsacoustics.com/
 
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gmoneyreece

Junior Audioholic
The B&W are great speakers and i think will make you happy but you may always wonder what the 683 would be like with the FST mid driver...although they are floor standers they really would not take up any more floor space than a pair of monitors on stands. used pairs of the 683 can be had for around $1000...for the money these are tough to beat. your listening habits (similar to mine) may also warrant evaluation of paradigm studio 20 v5s. i have had probably 20-30 pairs of speakers and about 10 of them have been paradigm (i keep coming back for the sound quality particularly with classic rock and value). that being said B&W 802Ns were probably the best thats been in my house (Wilson watt/puppy 5.1s, paradigm s8) and alot of that technology was trickled down into the 683s...

hope this helps...if i were spending $1000 it would be either the 683s or paradigm studio 20 v5 or paradigm s2 v1 (these are a little more but outstanding!)
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Nice collection of music, Ken. Regarding the sofa arm, I don't think sound would have much trouble traveling over, through and around it. If I stuck my girl friend in that corner at that exact height you would have absolutely no trouble hearing her anywhere in your house and maybe your neighbors house. I've had a very similar situation with placing a speaker that far into a corner with a sofa arm being in the path of a woofer. I had more of an issue with the boomy bass associated with corner loading the speaker than with an obstructed woofer ... but I still enjoyed the music. ;)

In that exact situation and my experience I would be ordering up some Infinity Primus 362's, a couple of Grammas and some acoustic treatments ... maybe. I'm surprised nobody has shown up singing the praises of bookshelves over floorstanders. It is easier/cheaper to make a better small cabinet for one. I would be sorely tempted to try out that SCM7 that jostenmeat linked as a TLS approved speaker except for the 60Hz F3 ... but I think I would have to give that a go if I had your mindset about bass.

Thanks for the pic's and we'll be here for you when you need to decide which sub to buy. :)
 
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exile_ken

Enthusiast
I am back home after the three day weekend and my speaker search has come to a sudden, and somewhat unexpected conclusion. When I left town last Friday afternoon I had spoken to people at four different high end stores in the SF area and had setup tentative times this week to audition the B&W CM1, Paradigm Studio 20 v.5, Dynaudio Excite x12, PSB Imagine B, and a late addition to the list of finalists, the Totem Rainmakers. A few of these were above my $1,000 budget but I was hoping my negotiating skills would come into play if I had decided on one of the more expensive models.

Now a confession: for at least 15 years or so I have dreamed of owning a pair of Proac Speakers. I heard a pair of response 2.5s at an audio show in San Francisco in the mid 90s. What sold me completely was when Eric Clapton Unplugged was played over the Response 2.5s. It was by far the most natural and musical presentation of recorded music I had ever heard, and I don’t think anything has equaled it since. Over the years I have wistfully thought about owning a pair, only to realize that with the lower end modes starting at $1,500 and heading north fast, it would be a long while before I could ever attain that. Throw in that Proacs are notoriously picky about placement, and with the limitations of my listening room, I didn’t think it was a good fit and I had moved on, or so I thought.

This morning I woke up at my usual time of 5:30 and before I headed to the gym for a workout I thought I would check Audiogon and see if anything interesting had been put up for sale. The very first listing was for a pair of Proac Studio 110s in mint condition for $995. This seemed like a sign from the high end audio gods. Four days before my 50th birthday and here were a pair of Proac speakers in good condition that were right at my price range. Better yet, the seller is about an hour from me, so I could go pick them up and not have to pay for shipping or take the risk they would be damaged. The only negative was the color, which is Maple. I would prefer the dark cherrywood or black. But that’s nit picking. I e-mailed the seller, and when I got to my desk after working out I had a response that they were mine if I wanted them. By 8AM the deal was done. So in the next few days (Saturday at the latest) I will drive over and pick up the Proacs, the speakers I had basically given up ever owning.
I realize that the Studio 110s are not the Response 2.5s. But in reading reviews of the 110s, in my small room they should do just fine assuming I can get the placement right.

The worst case scenario is that they don’t work in my room, or with my amp, or really sing with my budget speaker cables, or not be a good fit with the type of music I listen to. In that case, I figure I can just offer them for sale at a price close to what I got them for and go back to the list I made above. Proacs do retain their value and on Aidiogon they are snapped up usually within a day of being offered.

So that’s how it ends. I want to thank those of you who responded to my OP with your comments and suggestions. For the most part you were very helpful and understanding, which doesn’t happen often on audio forums as I’ve come to find out. I will add to this thread once I’ve picked them up and gotten situated. I may even end up asking for more advice, this time about placing picky speakers in limited spaces.

Till we meet again,

Ken

There's a guy in my block, he lives for rock, he plays records day and night
And when he feels down he puts some rock 'n' roll on, and it makes him feel alright
And when he feels the world is closing in, he turns his stereo way up high
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I
There's a guy in my block, he lives for rock, he plays records day and night
And when he feels down he puts some rock 'n' roll on, and it makes him feel alright
And when he feels the world is closing in, he turns his stereo way up high
"He just lives his life living in a rock n roll fantasy" :) Thats their best album IMHO
 
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exile_ken

Enthusiast
Misfits

"He just lives his life living in a rock n roll fantasy" :) Thats their best album IMHO
I'm a huge Kinks fan (I own all of their albums and then some) and while I love Misfits, I personally wouldn't include it in my top 5 Kinks albums OAT. However, it was probably the last "Great" Kinks album IMHO. GTMH my top 5 Kinks albums would be 1 Arthur, 2 Something Else, 3 Lola, 4 Face to Face, and 5 Muswell Hillbillies. Ask me tomorrow and that order would probably change and Schoolboys in Disgrace or Village Green Preservation Society might sneak in there to.

One final Kinks plug while I'm at it, one very under appreciated album that would sound real nice on some of the awesome systems owned by Audioholics is Ray Davies second studio solo effort Working Mans Cafe. It was released in 2007 and shows that Ray in is mid 60s can still write as good a pop song as anyone. I'll let you know how it sounds on the Proacs :D

Ken

Cut out the struggle and strife, it only complicates your life.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm a huge Kinks fan (I own all of their albums and then some) and while I love Misfits, I personally wouldn't include it in my top 5 Kinks albums OAT. However, it was probably the last "Great" Kinks album IMHO. GTMH my top 5 Kinks albums would be 1 Arthur, 2 Something Else, 3 Lola, 4 Face to Face, and 5 Muswell Hillbillies. Ask me tomorrow and that order would probably change and Schoolboys in Disgrace or Village Green Preservation Society might sneak in there to.

One final Kinks plug while I'm at it, one very under appreciated album that would sound real nice on some of the awesome systems owned by Audioholics is Ray Davies second studio solo effort Working Mans Cafe. It was released in 2007 and shows that Ray in is mid 60s can still write as good a pop song as anyone. I'll let you know how it sounds on the Proacs :D

Ken

Cut out the struggle and strife, it only complicates your life.

I recently purchased the Muswell Hillbillies on a 180gm vinyl re-release and it sounds good. Took me two plays to figure this album out and its a good one. My only regret is buying "Sleepwalker". At least I got that one cheap as it was a used album. :)
 
B

Barnaby

Audiophyte
I just stumbled upon this thread this afternoon and read it from beginning to end. I'm happy exile_Ken found the speakers of his dream, but disappointed that we won't get to read about the results of his auditions.

I'm especially disappointed because I'm also in the hunt for comparably priced bookshelves for a similar multi-purpose room: a 13' x 10' home office.

My work-in-progress list includes:
  • B&W 685
  • Energy RC10
  • Ascend Sierra 1
  • Usher S-520
  • Onix Reference 1
  • Paradigm Atom V5
  • Dynaudio's Focus 140
  • Aperion Intimus 6B

Any speaker I chose should outperform Boston Acoustics discontinued VR-M50, since I have a pair that currently are being used as surrounds but could be replaced by an idle pair of B&W LM-1s.

I also share exile_Ken's concerns about rear-ported designs, because my speakers will have to live with their backs (pretty much) to the wall.

Speakers especially fussy about placement aren't welcome here.

If any audioholics haven't gotten their fill of offering advice on sub-$1000 bookshelves for a 2-channel setup in a small room, I'm all ears.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I just stumbled upon this thread this afternoon and read it from beginning to end. I'm happy exile_Ken found the speakers of his dream, but disappointed that we won't get to read about the results of his auditions.

I'm especially disappointed because I'm also in the hunt for comparably priced bookshelves for a similar multi-purpose room: a 13' x 10' home office.

My work-in-progress list includes:
  • B&W 685
  • Energy RC10
  • Ascend Sierra 1
  • Usher S-520
  • Onix Reference 1
  • Paradigm Atom V5
  • Dynaudio's Focus 140
  • Aperion Intimus 6B

Any speaker I chose should outperform Boston Acoustics discontinued VR-M50, since I have a pair that currently are being used as surrounds but could be replaced by an idle pair of B&W LM-1s.

I also share exile_Ken's concerns about rear-ported designs, because my speakers will have to live with their backs (pretty much) to the wall.

Speakers especially fussy about placement aren't welcome here.

If any audioholics haven't gotten their fill of offering advice on sub-$1000 bookshelves for a 2-channel setup in a small room, I'm all ears.

Throw PSB's new Imagine and Image series speakers on that list for a must audition.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Warlord
I just stumbled upon this thread this afternoon and read it from beginning to end. I'm happy exile_Ken found the speakers of his dream, but disappointed that we won't get to read about the results of his auditions.

I'm especially disappointed because I'm also in the hunt for comparably priced bookshelves for a similar multi-purpose room: a 13' x 10' home office.

My work-in-progress list includes:
  • B&W 685
  • Energy RC10
  • Ascend Sierra 1
  • Usher S-520
  • Onix Reference 1
  • Paradigm Atom V5
  • Dynaudio's Focus 140
  • Aperion Intimus 6B

Any speaker I chose should outperform Boston Acoustics discontinued VR-M50, since I have a pair that currently are being used as surrounds but could be replaced by an idle pair of B&W LM-1s.

I also share exile_Ken's concerns about rear-ported designs, because my speakers will have to live with their backs (pretty much) to the wall.

Speakers especially fussy about placement aren't welcome here.

If any audioholics haven't gotten their fill of offering advice on sub-$1000 bookshelves for a 2-channel setup in a small room, I'm all ears.
Of the speakers on your list, I own the RC-10s and have listened to the 685s and the Atom V5s. In that small group, I consider the RC-10s to be the best performers, followed by the 685s, then the Atoms. The RC-10s have the best build quality and stand up better at higher SPLs. The actual difference in SQ is harder to judge, as I never heard them all in the same room, at the same time. But, my subjective opinion is that they follow the same order. And no, I did not make that decision after buying the Energy's.:p I bought them after coming to that conclusion.

The Atoms are fine speakers in their price range. But the RC-10s can be had at a good discount if you keep your eyes open. The 685s are not worth the asking price, IMHO.

The RC-10s are rear-ported though and it will probably be an issue if you have to place them against a wall. If you have at least a few inches of room behind them, there might not be much difference between front and rear-ported designs.

Having said all that, I recently upgraded to Paradigm Studio 20 V5s. I'm not sure if you can find them for less than $1000, but it's worth looking. The improvement from the RC-10s wasn't drastic, but audioholism is a disease and some improvement was worth the cost.:D The cabinets are more inert and there is deeper bass extension. Plus, they look the bees knees, from my perspective. They are front-ported as well. But, as I mentioned above, that may not make a huge difference.

Why do I say that? Well, I have a placement problem similar to yours, in that they must be close to a wall. I have about 6" of space between the back of the speakers and the wall. I have a test tone CD and an SPL metre and took FR readings of both pairs of speakers in the same position. Although the standing wave was less severe with the Studios, the difference wasn't drastic.

If you would like to mitigate the bass problems, you will probably have to employ electronic room correction. If your speakers have to be close to the wall, you probably don't have space for room treatments, such as bass traps. I plan to buy a DCX2496 quite soon to deal with mine.
 
B

Barnaby

Audiophyte
Thanks very much for the replies. The PSB were long at the top of my list. Their omission above was inadvertent . There's a local PSB dealer, so an audition won't be a problem.

The Energy's are a strong contender. They get a lot of love around here and, as you say, can be had for a good price -- about half of MSRP.

If I put them on shelves, they should be deep enough to leave a few inches of space behind the speakers.

I plan to install some 242 acoustic panels, which should also help when my wife and I make conference calls from there using the speaker phone.

While I'm willing to spend up to a grand or so on speakers, I'd be happy to spend less. It's a small room, after all.

I'm planning to power whatever I buy with a surplus 75-watt Denon AVR-1800 that lacks electronic room correction.

More thoughts/suggestions? I remain all ears.
 
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exile_ken

Enthusiast
My work-in-progress list includes:
  • B&W 685
  • Energy RC10
  • Ascend Sierra 1
  • Usher S-520
  • Onix Reference 1
  • Paradigm Atom V5
  • Dynaudio's Focus 140
  • Aperion Intimus 6B
Sorry to disappoint you Barnaby. I will throw in a few comments. I would add the B&W CM1 to that list. I hear its a much more refined sound than the 685 and it retails for $1K. The Dynaudio Focus 140s MSRP is $1800, although you should be alble to get it for less. Still, to stay in the $1K range you would have to look for a used pair of 140s on Audiogon or ebay. A pretty clean pair of 140s just went for $955 in an auction yesterday.

Hope this helps

Exile_Ken

Well the poster said we'd get a uniform and seven bucks a week
The best rations in the army and a rifle we could keep
 
K

kcbrown24

Enthusiast
Try Polk Lsi9

I have a good friend that put these in his small home theater and we are just blown away by the sound. They have good lows and smooth highs and I bet you can get them for a bargain right now. Polk lists them for $999.95 but if you went to a local dealer or ebay, I'm sure you could find them for around $700 or so. They also get great reviews on crutchfield, check 'em out.
 
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