1K$ Budget for a speaker upgrade

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exile_ken

Enthusiast
Greetings Audioholics!!! I am a newbie to this forum but am someone that was into High End Audio 15 – 20 years ago until things like buying a house, making babies and the associated expenses that go along with both caused my HiFi budget to disappear faster than a room full of virgins at Tiger Woods house. But with the big Five O birthday looming my wife has graciously approved a speaker upgrade for my system. Most of my gear is fifteen plus years old but was considered pretty good back in the day and has been well cared for and is still in excellent working condition:

Amp: Forte 4a (50 wpc pure Class A)
Pre: Classe Audio Thirty
CD : NAD C 521BEE (replaced a Nakamichi CD changer about four years ago)
Spkrs: Mission 750LE on 26’ Target Stands filled with sand

My “Music Room”, which also serves as a guest bedroom, office, kids homework room, etc. is 14 x 11.5 feet with 8 foot coffered ceilings that are 9’ 2” in the center. There is a hide-a-bed sofa along one wall which limits how far away from the back wall I can place the left speaker. Unfortunately, the sofa, large desk at the other end of the room and other accouterments have to stay, and I can’t really rearrange the furniture.

The Mission speakers were a demo from a local audio shop that I got on a tip from a guy who worked there. When my stereo got moved from the living room to the upstairs office I had to ditch my B & W DM640 floor standers which are the best speakers I ever owned and went with the Missions as I needed something smaller and got a good deal on them. Their sonic character was similar to the B&Ws, but without the low end or mid-range excellence of the bigger speakers . Once I got adjusted to the smaller speakers I came to like them. But over time I have grown less fond of the Missions. They just sound a bit too thin to me in the mid-range and if I turn the volume up to even medium levels the bass gets very boomy. I realize part of the reason for this is they are placed in the corners of the room with the rear of the speaker about 18 inches from the back wall, and the side of the speakers about a foot from the side walls. Due to furniture and the layout of the room, that’s where the speakers have to be placed. There is not much I can do about this setup.

Although I have been out of the HiFi game for quite a while I still love music and most of my listening these days is done on my computer which sports an upgraded sound card and a pair of Audioengine 2 speakers. While this isn’t a bad setup, I really would like to get back to using my HiFi system. I own over 1,500 CDs and my taste in music is predominantly various flavors of rock with some alt-country, blues, 60’s soul and R&B, jazz ( the traditional but non squeaky horn variety) and bluegrass thrown in. I love “classic rock” like The Beatles, The Kinks, The Stones, Cream, Traffic, Hendrix and The Band along with “new wave” from the 70’s /80s , The Jam, Squeeze, Elvis Costello, XTC, Television, and English Beat. I will occasionally punk out with the NY Dolls, the Ramones or The Clash. I dig Indie bands like The Jayhawks, Robyn Hitchcock, The Feelies, or Crowded House. I also can’t get enough of Los Lobos, the Grateful Dead, Richard Thompson, Roxy Music, Yo La Tengo, Whiskeytown, Uncle Tupelo, and Steve Earle. I’m all over the map but I really don’t listen to classical ( I know, I know I’m missing out but really it just doesn’t do it for me).

I have about $1K to spend on speakers and there are a few I have in mind. I have read wonderful things about the B & W 685s and I was so happy with my old B&Ws that they will definitely get an audition. One feature of the 685s I like is the reflex port in the front of the speaker rather than the rear. I think this design would be preferable with my particular setup and cut down on the “boomy bass” effect I get from the Missions, which have a rear port. I am also interested in the CM1 but have concerns they may be similar to the Mission 750LEs and not have the huevos to crank Pearl Jam when I am the only one home. A friend of mine has a home theater setup with PSB Image B6s as his front speakers and I love the sound of those but they also feature the rear port for bass, and at $499 a pair I would and prefer spend more of my $1k budget and get more. I will give the PSB Imagine B at $1K a listen at a local audio shop, but I don’t know anything about them besides the review in Stereophile this past year.

In my research of speakers over the past few weeks I stumbled across reviews of the Ascend Acoustics Sierra 1. I am really intrigued by these speakers although I know nothing about the company other than they sell directly over the web and their President seems like a nice guy who is a speaker designer nerd. I use this term respectfully as I myself am a computer networking nerd. One obvious advantage to the Ascend Acoustics sales model is that I can audition these babies for 30 days in my room and return them with a full refund if they are not my cup of tea. This seems like a real benefit. My game plan at the moment is to visit a few audio shops to audition said B&Ws and PSB models. Then, before plunking down the cash ordering the Sierra 1s and see how they sound in my room and make a decision from there.

Finally, the reason I am here and writing my music listening life story for all to read is I do have a few questions for you who possess much knowledge. First, is my theory of finding a speaker with front reflex ports because of the speaker placement something that sounds logical? Or am I eliminating a perfectly good speaker like the PSB Image B6 for a problem that has more to do with speaker placement than the location or presence of the reflex port. I do realize that there are wall and room treatments that I could add but between the cost and the wife acceptance factor I probably can’t go that route. The Seirra1s do come with a damping kit that could solve the bass / placement issue but at the expense of something else.

Second. Given my budget, room constraints, and taste in music are there any other monitor style speakers that you could suggest that I consider or audition. I would hate to make this purchase and then find out two months later that there was an ideal speaker out there that I missed because I have been out of the game for a while.

Thank you for reading through my long winded post and for any wisdom you may impart on me.

Ken

Bop-bop-a-lu a-wop -bam-boo
 
MidnightSensi

MidnightSensi

Audioholic Samurai
I'd look at the Dynaudio Focus 114 or Dynaudio Excite X16 series, based on your listening preferences and tastes. The Excite is priced more moderately and would be easier for your amplifier to power.

Both have exceptional performance for the money, far superior to the others you have mentioned.

Welcome to the forum.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I'd look at the Dynaudio Focus 114 or Dynaudio Excite X16 series, based on your listening preferences and tastes. The Excite is priced more moderately and would be easier for your amplifier to power.

Both have exceptional performance for the money, far superior to the others you have mentioned.

Welcome to the forum.
Far superior in what way? Do you have the specs to back this up or is this just a personal preference?

The Excite and the 140 model are both 4 ohm speakers just like PSB's Imagine so easier to drive isn't true given that the sensitivity for both speakers are the same. Both Dynaudios dig deeper into the bass but with a subwoofer, that's a mute point. It boils down to listener preference and not one being far superiror than the other. :rolleyes:
 
E

exile_ken

Enthusiast
Dynaudio

Thank you for responding to my post. I think you have a typo as there is no Focus 114 so far as I can tell. There is a 110 and a 140. Dynaudio have an excellent reputation, but I'm afraid that these are both out of my price range. The 110 retails for $1500 and the 140 for $2K so unless I can find a used pair on ebay or audiogon, they would be beyond my budget. I realize for many Audioholics spending an extra $500 is no big deal, but we are a middle income family of three kids with two teenagers headed to college soon so my $1K budget is very firm.

At any rate I am curious why you think that the Dynaudios would perform better than the PSBs or B&Ws given my musical taste. I realize that most rock music does not reach the same extremes of sound reproduction at the edges of the ranges that classical and jazz does, but I do listen to quite a bit of acoustic music, or with acoustic guitars, banjos, mandolins, etc. A good set of speakers will need to reproduce those instruments faithfully and with proper space. I wont need to reproduce the lowest octaves of a pipe organ, but the instruments and the voices need to sound real.

Also, what opinion do you have (if any) of Ascend Acoustics.

Thanks again.

Ken

Its good to be King, if just for a while
 
E

exile_ken

Enthusiast
No sub

Both Dynaudios dig deeper into the bass but with a subwoofer, that's a mute point.
Thanks for your opinion. I don't want to start a flame war here. I appreciate MidnightSensis suggestion, and I do realize that its all personal preference. I am trying to make an informed opinion so hearing about other speaker brands in my price range is a good thing. All suggestions, opinions, personal preferences, etc are welcome.

By the way, I cant add a sub to my setup for various reasons.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
how about RBH 1266-SE/R if you are looking for Full Range tower....
 
E

exile_ken

Enthusiast
Rbh

how about RBH 1266-SE/R if you are looking for Full Range tower....
Unless I am looking at the wrong speaker, thats about $5K a pair. :confused: Cant do that, plus the room really dictates I have bookshelf / monitor speakers.

Ken

I once knew a guy who always asked for money,
I'd give him a ten, he'd insist on twenty
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I hear that Monitor Audio RS6's are very good and they seem to be in your price range. I would give them a look.
 
MidnightSensi

MidnightSensi

Audioholic Samurai
Far superior in what way? Do you have the specs to back this up or is this just a personal preference?

The Excite and the 140 model are both 4 ohm speakers just like PSB's Imagine so easier to drive isn't true given that the sensitivity for both speakers are the same. Both Dynaudios dig deeper into the bass but with a subwoofer, that's a mute point. It boils down to listener preference and not one being far superiror than the other. :rolleyes:
That's true, it is my preference. By easier to drive I meant that the Excite is easier to drive than the Focus is. The Excite I think would be okay with a receiver, versus the Focus's I think would be pushing it.

Thank you for responding to my post. I think you have a typo as there is no Focus 114 so far as I can tell. There is a 110 and a 140. Dynaudio have an excellent reputation, but I'm afraid that these are both out of my price range. The 110 retails for $1500 and the 140 for $2K so unless I can find a used pair on ebay or audiogon, they would be beyond my budget. I realize for many Audioholics spending an extra $500 is no big deal, but we are a middle income family of three kids with two teenagers headed to college soon so my $1K budget is very firm.

At any rate I am curious why you think that the Dynaudios would perform better than the PSBs or B&Ws given my musical taste. I realize that most rock music does not reach the same extremes of sound reproduction at the edges of the ranges that classical and jazz does, but I do listen to quite a bit of acoustic music, or with acoustic guitars, banjos, mandolins, etc. A good set of speakers will need to reproduce those instruments faithfully and with proper space. I wont need to reproduce the lowest octaves of a pipe organ, but the instruments and the voices need to sound real.

Also, what opinion do you have (if any) of Ascend Acoustics.

Thanks again.

Ken

Its good to be King, if just for a while
Those are retail prices, a dealer right now will sell them /a lot/ cheaper.

Regarding the PSB's versus Dynaudios. Again, this is my preference, but I find the Dynaudios to have more natural treble. The PSBs have a good snap up high when you first start to listen, but over time the highs were a bit fatiguing and unnatural to me. I find the Monitor Audio's to have the same sort of sound, it initially it is like 'WOW' but after time becomes a bit tiresome. Dynaudios, in my experience, across the line, dollar for dollar, offer the best overall experience. B&Ws I really like, and /don't/ find the treble to be fatiguing - I find the B&W lines I've heard to be very natural and work for long listening session and for a wide variety of music. It's just I found the higher end B&Ws, above your budget, to be more of a value than the more moderately priced ones ... that's why I ended up recommending Dynaudio: I think their budget lines offer more value.

But, I have no measurements to back this up, no data, no blind tests, so... take this for entertainment purposes only. :)
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Unless I am looking at the wrong speaker, thats about $5K a pair. :confused: Cant do that, plus the room really dictates I have bookshelf / monitor speakers.

Ken

I once knew a guy who always asked for money,
I'd give him a ten, he'd insist on twenty
Well, I assumed these would be re-incarnation of old and famous RBH TK-5CT, but alas I was wrong - 1266 are bigger, but still not in 5k/pair - only 2.7k, still above your budget.
Looks like RBH 1044SE is the sibling of 5TC, but RBH decided to price them $800 higher than original.
Given you don't want sub and can't have tower - good luck to you finding full range (or almost full range) bookshelf.
 
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Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
... the room really dictates I have bookshelf / monitor speakers.
I take it the speakers are not going to be placed on stands?

There have been write ups on bookshelf speaker shoot outs in that price category. I seem to remember one for the $400 range and another for the $800 range.

I recently won a couple of surround speakers from Aperion Audio and can tell you that they look beautiful. :)
I haven't hooked them up yet. :eek:

Aperion Audio has a favorably reviewed $450 pair and I would think a better $700 unreviewed pair.
The looks on these things can't be overstated and they have the 30 day return thing. :)

Here's an interesting read and of particular interest to me is Tom Andry's observations in the conclusions.

There's also this deal. Keep it in the family and go used. :)
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Regarding the PSB's versus Dynaudios. Again, this is my preference, but I find the Dynaudios to have more natural treble. The PSBs have a good snap up high when you first start to listen, but over time the highs were a bit fatiguing and unnatural to me. I find the Monitor Audio's to have the same sort of sound, it initially it is like 'WOW' but after time becomes a bit tiresome. Dynaudios, in my experience, across the line, dollar for dollar, offer the best overall experience. B&Ws I really like, and /don't/ find the treble to be fatiguing - I find the B&W lines I've heard to be very natural and work for long listening session and for a wide variety of music. It's just I found the higher end B&Ws, above your budget, to be more of a value than the more moderately priced ones ... that's why I ended up recommending Dynaudio: I think their budget lines offer more value.

But, I have no measurements to back this up, no data, no blind tests, so... take this for entertainment purposes only. :)
Thats fair and I can't critique your preferences. I'm curious, what PSB models were you looking at? Compared to Paradigm's Monitor Series and all of Axiom's speakers, and the Polk LSI series I found the PSBs to be the warmest of the group. Its there warmth that drew me in and I personally don't find that particluar series fatiqueing at all. Could be that poor room acoustics interfered and gave them bright sound that you were hearing.
 
E

exile_ken

Enthusiast
The PSBs have a good snap up high when you first start to listen, but over time the highs were a bit fatiguing and unnatural to me. I find the Monitor Audio's to have the same sort of sound, it initially it is like 'WOW' but after time becomes a bit tiresome. Dynaudios, in my experience, across the line, dollar for dollar, offer the best overall experience.
Thank you again for your observations. I think I had the same experience with the Missions. I loved them at first but now have a hard time listening to them at medium to high levels. In what could be taken as "a sign" the new edition of Stereophile arrived today and includes a rave review on the Dynaudio Excite X12. This retails for $1200 and is more in my wheelhouse, although a bit over. Still if I can get a deal, who knows... The audio shop that sells PSB also carries Dynaudio so I will give them a listen.

Ken

But it was so much easier when I was cruel
 
E

exile_ken

Enthusiast
I take it the speakers are not going to be placed on stands?



Here's an interesting read and of particular interest to me is Tom Andry's observations in the conclusions.
Thank you for your observations. The speakers are going to be placed on stands, but because of the layout of the room and two large pieces of furniture, they can only be located in the corners on each end of the 11.5 foot wall.

I have seen the two models of Aperion speakers mentioned in my research but had not considered them as if I go the "web route" I think my first choice would be the Ascend Acoustics Seirra-1s. They have received rave reviews in many web sites and publications, including one by the same Tom Audry whose comments you reference in your post (which I totally agree with): Seirra-1s

But who knows, if the Seirra-1s don't do it for me, and I am still searching maybe I will have a pair of the Aperions shipped my way.

Thanks again

Ken

I don't need no wah-wah
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
The speakers are going to be placed on stands ...
Then I don't understand the resistance to floor standers. Seems like it would actually occupy the same floor space and maybe help you go a little lower in the frequency range with higher efficiency to assist your 50 wpc amp.

My only hope is that you let us know what you decide and what your impressions are. :)

Promise me, Ken. :D
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
As far as space goes the monkey has a point.Is there a total no on floorstanders? Just sayin you get get way more usable low end with floorstanding speakers and they take up as much space as a set of stands...if you get the right speaker.There are many floor speakers in your price range that would totally suit your needs.
 
krzywica

krzywica

Audioholic Samurai
Check out Aperion.



Oops....looks like I came late to the party.

Good luck Ken or should I say.....

THE RIDDLER!!

 
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E

exile_ken

Enthusiast
No Floorstanders

First of all, great Frank Gorshin picture.:D

Thanks again for all the feedback from you audioholics. Let me clear up the no floor standers policy.

First about three feet from the back wall of the room on the left wall is a hide-a –bed sofa. The arm of the sofa is pretty thick and is about 22” high. Most floor stander speakers have woofers in the lower part of the speaker. The sofa would completely block this part of the speaker from the listening position. I have the Mission 750LEs I use currently on stands that are 26” off the floor, so the speaker is placed above said furniture object. Yes, the obvious solution is to get rid of the couch, but for reasons I’ll save for the marriage counselor it stays.

Second, directly beneath the music room / office /guest room is the bedroom shared by my two daughters. Having a floor stander will cause too much bass to protrude through the floor, which means the volume knob will rarely be able to go above 2. This is also why a sub woofer is not an option.

Marriage is all about compromises, the saying goes, and happy marriage’s are about a lot of compromises, usually more from the male side of the equation. I agreed to this arrangement on a hot July day nearly twenty years ago. The sun was in my eyes.:cool:

I do PROMISE to keep you all apprised of my journey and the final results. The plan as of now is to audition the two B&W models (685 & CM1) at one store which is pretty close to my house. I may do that one evening next week. Next weekend I will head up to San Francisco to a shop that carries PSB and Dynadio and listen to the PSB Image B6s, the Imagine Bs, and the Dynaudio Excite X12s (hat tip MidnightSensi). Unless one of those just knocks me on my hindquarters and the salesperson begs me to steal them from him/her, I plan on ordering a pair of the Seirra-1s for a 30 day trial. Once I have those set up I will give them a good listen in my room, then go re-audition whichever model or models of speaker tickled my fancy from the first round of auditions. I see the entire process taking maybe a month, so please bear with me.

Thanks again for all the input. If anyone else wants to chime in, the more the merrier.

Ken

I'm just sittin' on a fence. You can say I got no sense
Trying to make up my mind really is too horrifying
So I'm sittin on a fence
 
W

Weasel9992

Junior Audioholic
I recently won a couple of surround speakers from Aperion Audio and can tell you that they look beautiful. :)
I haven't hooked them up yet. :eek:

Aperion Audio has a favorably reviewed $450 pair and I would think a better $700 unreviewed pair.
The looks on these things can't be overstated and they have the 30 day return thing. :)
I have a pair of Aperion 6T's pair with their 8D sub, and I can tell you that they're absolutely unbeatable for the money (about $1,400 for the pair of 6T's, and additional $500 for the 8D). I know that's above the OP's budget, but I'd say the Aperion stuff in his budget would be a good bet.

Frank
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Here's my last 2c on the issue:
http://www.emptek.com/ef30t.php
Yes, I know these are full tower speakers, but:
1) they are in your budget
2) the sub woofer even it'll (partially?) blocked by couch, it might not be as critical issue since bass is less directional than other frequencies.
3) EMP Tek gives free 30 days trial on these at your home
4) I rather have SOME bass and turn it down as needed, than not to have it at all

I have bastard son of ef30t's at home - tSc TST2 speakers and can't say enought of good things about this design (mtm + sub)
 
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