18Hz vs. 25Hz

[el espectro]

I'm looking at two Hsu subs and one goes down to 18Hz in full extention mode, the other down to 25Hz. For size and space, I'd like the smaller sub, but I lose some of that range. Will the difference really be that noticable?

Medium size room, music and movies (more music).

 

[Davemcc]

I've determined from listening to many bass frequency sweeps that I can't hear anything below about 28Hz. YMMV. With subsonic frequencies, it really comes down to how much you want your room to shake with LFE.

 

[OttoMatic]

Yeah, it just depends. For "more music" I think you'd be OK with the smaller sub. Most music doesn't extend that low, unless you're listening to organ music or perhaps something artificial (and there are other tunes out there that go that low as well, I'm sure).

How do you like your movies? Loud and shaking? Do you like drama or action/explosion?

My suggestion for most things like this is: do what you want for now; if it's wrong or it sucks, you can fix it later. In general, I don't care for overkill...

 

[Exit]

For music you would be missing 20 Hz to 25 Hz. About the only thing musical in that range are lowest notes of a pipe organ and how often do you listen to that type of music?

For HT you would be missing 18 to 25 Hz. This is where a lot of movie low bass sound effects occur. These are the sound effects where you feel the cannon blasts and things vibrate on shelves. You would have to ask youself if this kind of low bass sound effects are worth it for you.

 

[rnatalli]

You may not be able to hear 18, but you can certainly feel it. That said, I always felt 25 is low enough.

 

[gliz]

what model are you looking at from HSU?

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm looking at two Hsu subs and one goes down to 18Hz in full extention mode, the other down to 25Hz. For size and space, I'd like the smaller sub, but I lose some of that range. Will the difference really be that noticable?

Medium size room, music and movies (more music).

The real question to ask is: "What is the difference in spl at 25 Hz?" A sub with good spl at 25 Hz will shake the floor. The other issue is what is the design. If two enclosures, one ported and one sealed have an F3 of 25 Hz, then the sealed will have 6db more output at 20 Hz than the ported one.

 

[darien87]

I went from a 10" sub that cut out around 25hz, to a 12" that will hit 16hz and the difference is night and day!

Sure you can't hear those low frequencies, but when I play a movie and my windows start rattling, I get a HUGE grin on my face.

 

[j_garcia]

I can still hear sound at 22Hz, but below that it is difficult to tell. ANYONE can definitely FEEL those frequencies though and they do add to the perception of sound quite a bit. I would say 20Hz is a good place to shoot for. Note too that the actual performance at given frequencies will vary depending on the room.

 

[dobyblue]

I agree that in certain types of music there isn't much down that low, for instance the lowest note on a piano is around 27Hz, but I'm pretty sure with electronic music and pedals like the octav8tor, there is additional music which hits down to 20Hz and beyond.

The feel of it, much like the sound of it, can be noticed to be off key just by the vibrations, similar to the way you can tune a bass guitar just by the vibrations once one string is in tune.

I'm sure some of Tony Levin's electronic work on the Chapman Stick and bass guitar is electronically assisted to Hz below what the normal range of the instrument is, even though I've never tested it myself.

I'd agree that 20Hz is a good place to shoot for, which I guess means I'd recommend the 18Hz sub.

 

[Pyrrho]

I'm looking at two Hsu subs and one goes down to 18Hz in full extention mode, the other down to 25Hz. For size and space, I'd like the smaller sub, but I lose some of that range. Will the difference really be that noticable?

Medium size room, music and movies (more music).

I went from a sub that had a -3 dB point of 28 Hz, with some output below that, to a tunable sub that went down (at - 3 dB) 18 Hz (or lower, with the other tuning options). The difference is huge. However, the difference between the subwoofers was not just the lowest end, but the level of maximum output was greater with the subwoofer that goes lower.

Since you are looking at two Hsu subwoofers, you may be looking at the VTF-1 and the VTF-2 Mk3 (there are other models that are possible). With those, the one that goes lower also can play louder. I recommend going with the better sub, assuming you can afford it and it will fit in your space. (Or, better still, go with an even better sub than you are now considering, if you can afford it and have room for it.) At worst, you would have more capability than you need, filling more space than you would like it filling. But more than likely, you would, if comparing them both in your room, much prefer the performance of the better one. Most people who have regrets about their subwoofer purchases regret not getting a better one. Very few regret having a subwoofer that is better than they think is necessary.

Additionally, when considering the maximum output of a subwoofer, typically, it will have less distortion at lower levels. Consequently, even if the maximum output and maximum extension of the lessor one were "good enough", the better one would have less distortion at that output.

 

[TLS Guy]

I went from a sub that had a -3 dB point of 28 Hz, with some output below that, to a tunable sub that went down (at - 3 dB) 18 Hz (or lower, with the other tuning options). The difference is huge. However, the difference between the subwoofers was not just the lowest end, but the level of maximum output was greater with the subwoofer that goes lower.

Since you are looking at two Hsu subwoofers, you may be looking at the VTF-1 and the VTF-2 Mk3 (there are other models that are possible). With those, the one that goes lower also can play louder. I recommend going with the better sub, assuming you can afford it and it will fit in your space. (Or, better still, go with an even better sub than you are now considering, if you can afford it and have room for it.) At worst, you would have more capability than you need, filling more space than you would like it filling. But more than likely, you would, if comparing them both in your room, much prefer the performance of the better one. Most people who have regrets about their subwoofer purchases regret not getting a better one. Very few regret having a subwoofer that is better than they think is necessary.

Additionally, when considering the maximum output of a subwoofer, typically, it will have less distortion at lower levels. Consequently, even if the maximum output and maximum extension of the lessor one were "good enough", the better one would have less distortion at that output.

More often than not the sub with the lower F3 will also generate higher spl in the 25 to 30 Hz range, but it does not have to follow. A powerful sub, especially if it has second order roll off, will still shake the floor plenty, even if the F3 is 25 Hz or thereabouts.

 

[dobyblue]

Most people who have regrets about their subwoofer purchases regret not getting a better one. Very few regret having a subwoofer that is better than they think is necessary.

Absolutely great advice and I wholeheartedly agree.
When I was upgrading my sub I went through so many decisions, Paradigm PW-2200, Martin Logan Depth, Velodyne DD-15, Seismic 12, VTF-3, etc.

I finally decided on a Paradigm Servo 15v2. It's more sub than my room needs and the gain is never above 40%, but the incredible depths and control were worth every penny.

 

[Jack Hammer]

I'd go with the better sub. While in music the difference may not be as pronounced, you'll find that while watching movies that extra oomph will add quite a bit to your listening enjoyment. The trend in movies these days is to add quite a bit of low effects, why miss out on them?

Jack

 

[el espectro]

Since you are looking at two Hsu subwoofers, you may be looking at the VTF-1 and the VTF-2 Mk3 (there are other models that are possible). With those, the one that goes lower also can play louder. I recommend going with the better sub, assuming you can afford it and it will fit in your space. (Or, better still, go with an even better sub than you are now considering, if you can afford it and have room for it.) At worst, you would have more capability than you need, filling more space than you would like it filling. But more than likely, you would, if comparing them both in your room, much prefer the performance of the better one. Most people who have regrets about their subwoofer purchases regret not getting a better one. Very few regret having a subwoofer that is better than they think is necessary.

Additionally, when considering the maximum output of a subwoofer, typically, it will have less distortion at lower levels. Consequently, even if the maximum output and maximum extension of the lessor one were "good enough", the better one would have less distortion at that output.

Yep, those are the 2 Hsu's Thanks to everyone for the input . . . I guess my wife will have to have "misheard me" when I told her I was going to spend $400

 

[gliz]

I have been astonished with the performance of my new VTF3 mk 3 well worth the 499

 

[Pyrrho]

Yep, those are the 2 Hsu's Thanks to everyone for the input . . . I guess my wife will have to have "misheard me" when I told her I was going to spend $400

If you want to make it up to her in the future, spend less on a receiver than originally planned. Speakers, including subwoofers, make far more difference in the sound quality than receivers typically do (the exception is when dealing with difficult to drive speakers, which require more robust amplification). Also, avoid wasting money on expensive connecting wires, as they do nothing for you. Decent and inexpensive cables will give you all the sound you can get from your components. But you can definitely hear (and in the case of subwoofers, feel) the difference between many different models of speakers.

 

[ThA tRiXtA]

You got a new in the box VTF3 MK3 for $499 US?? From where, if you don't mind me asking. All else being equal, I'll take 2 please.