$16,600 on cabling...is that a joke?

[jaxvon]

You know I honestly think that it stems from the whole idea of "equality". If you just dropped $80k on your 2 channel components, doesn't it just seem logical to hook them up with some cables of the same elite status? Now, I can't justify some of the $4k cables. But I think if you spend a few hundred to get some cables that look awesome, are solidly built, and make you feel like you bought something that will hold up its end in your system, then by god just do it. I personally can't afford stuff like that. But if I could afford to drop $20k on a new set of speakers, I wouldn't bat an eye at dropping a few hundred on a nice set of cables, regardless of the fact that I'm wasting some money.

 

[Audiosouse]

You know I honestly think that it stems from the whole idea of "equality". If you just dropped $80k on your 2 channel components, doesn't it just seem logical to hook them up with some cables of the same elite status? Now, I can't justify some of the $4k cables. But I think if you spend a few hundred to get some cables that look awesome, are solidly built, and make you feel like you bought something that will hold up its end in your system, then by god just do it. I personally can't afford stuff like that. But if I could afford to drop $20k on a new set of speakers, I wouldn't bat an eye at dropping a few hundred on a nice set of cables, regardless of the fact that I'm wasting some money.

I guess Einstein was right, everything is relative. I'd probably do same...up to a point.

I still feel it's bad Karma to spend 2000% more than you have to while some guy is rooting through your garbage trying to avoid starvation. Kinda what the G8 summit is all about...you know...social responsibility?

We all have primitave instincts to build the biggest nest to attract the best mates, but I thought we'd evolved? This site allows audiophiles to walk upright and leave Audiogon for the knuckle draggers.

 

[Sleestack]

I guess Einstein was right, everything is relative. I'd probably do same...up to a point.

I still feel it's bad Karma to spend 2000% more than you have to while some guy is rooting through your garbage trying to avoid starvation. Kinda what the G8 summit is all about...you know...social responsibility?

We all have primitave instincts to build the biggest nest to attract the best mates, but I thought we'd evolved? This site allows audiophiles to walk upright and leave Audiogon for the knuckle draggers.

You think it is bad Karma when it pertains to audio cables but not when it pertains to watches? If I recall correctly, you wear a Rolex. Given that you can get a fully functional watch that keeps better time than any Rolex for about $9.99, is it not bad Karma to be wearing a watch that could feed a family of 4 in Africa for 3 years? Stand on your pulpit if you want, but I don't see how your choice is any different.

Furthermore, as to bad Karma, I can't speak for anyone else, but I might spend a ridiculous amount on cables, but I also provide jobs for about 1000 people, donate to many different organizations and provide private educational grants. Whatever bad karma my cables, cars, watches, etc. are producing is somewhat balanced by other apsects of my life. I'm not Mother Theresa, but I'm not Kim Jong Il either.

 

[Audiosouse]

You think it is bad Karma when it pertains to audio cables but not when it pertains to watches? If I recall correctly, you wear a Rolex. Given that you can get a fully functional watch that keeps better time than any Rolex for about $9.99, is it not bad Karma to be wearing a watch that could feed a family of 4 in Africa for 3 years? Stand on your pulpit if you want, but I don't see how your choice is any different.

I do regret mentioning that, it really has no bearing on audio discussions. I was trying to illustrate those purchases are for reasons other than performance. I sure hope this doesn't turn into a "look how much I'm worth" site like Audiogon.

Although I wear one, I didn't (and wouldn't) buy one for myself. It was an extravagant gift...a reward for years of hard work from people who are not wealthy, quite a gesture I tried not to accept, but was compelled to keep.

Daddy didn't give me a successful business...or two...or three...so when I indulge, I spend no more than necessary to achieve a desired level of performance. And I've learned that you don't have to as price doesn't always reflect quality (Just how I was raised). Besides, what's more fun than wheeling and dealing? Getting a nice piece of equipment for a great deal is extremely rewarding. In fact, there's an entire forum on this site devoted to this very thing!

I love this site because it's the only one geared to finding high quality audio that goes beyond name dropping and prejudice. And while I realize people in this hobby tend to have disposable income, it's not, nor should be, a requirement for it...which is why many of us are so shocked at such blatant lavishnesses.

I just hope the top 1% thinks of donating a few bucks to their fellow man while they enjoy profligacies. I do my part by making decisions that benefit the majority instead of myself, so I sleep well at night...it's called good old fashioned Catholic guilt...you know, the camel through the eye of a needle thing. And I'm not a mormon or right wing cook, just a down to earth Canuck! It's our culture eh!

 

[Sleestack]

I do regret mentioning that, it really has no bearing on audio discussions. I was trying to illustrate those purchases are for reasons other than performance. I sure hope this doesn't turn into a "look how much I'm worth" site like Audiogon.

Although I wear one, I didn't (and wouldn't) buy one for myself. It was an extravagant gift...a reward for years of hard work from people who are not wealthy, quite a gesture I tried not to accept, but was compelled to keep.

Daddy didn't give me a successful business...or two...or three...so when I indulge, I spend no more than necessary to achieve a desired level of performance. And I've learned that you don't have to as price doesn't always reflect quality (Just how I was raised). Besides, what's more fun than wheeling and dealing? Getting a nice piece of equipment for a great deal is extremely rewarding. In fact, there's an entire forum on this site devoted to this very thing!

I love this site because it's the only one geared to finding high quality audio that goes beyond name dropping and prejudice. And while I realize people in this hobby tend to have disposable income, it's not, nor should be, a requirement for it...which is why many of us are so shocked at such blatant lavishnesses.

I just hope the top 1% thinks of donating a few bucks to their fellow man while they enjoy profligacies. I do my part by making decisions that benefit the majority instead of myself, so I sleep well at night...it's called good old fashioned Catholic guilt...you know, the camel through the eye of a needle thing. And I'm not a mormon or right wing cook, just a down to earth Canuck! It's our culture eh!

I'm sure there are some areas in your life where you indulge. If not, then kudos to you and your ascetic lifestyle. Keep in mind though, that there are probably people out there who are more generous, more ascetic and selfless than you. Why not strive to be like them if you truly make decisions that benefit the majority rather than yourself. Why not give up all your worldy goods and help those in Africa? Members of my family have.... I respect them, but couldn't do the same. Do your part, but realize there is always someone doing more...or less. You can justify your Rolex by saying someone gave it to you, but how strong are your convictions if the thought of offending someone is too much to overcome your selfless and frugal tendencies?

Having disposable income is defintely not a prerequisite for enjoying audio/video. That being said, being able to buy without being concerned about whether or not I'm getting the abolute best deal, is an indulgence that I work pretty hard to be able to afford. Furthermore, I, and the rest of my family do quite a bit to help the community (and Catholic church), but I can't speak for other wealthy individuals.

 

[Privateer]

Some of these high end cable products do take a very long time to make and the quality is near perfect. This does not mean that they will sound better or perform better, this is the main point that bugs me. If someone wants to spend a pile of money on cables so be it but do not tell me that is sounds better. Hell if I were rich I would wire every speaker in my house with top of the line transparent product.

 

[Audiosouse]

I'm sure there are some areas in your life where you indulge. If not, then kudos to you and your ascetic lifestyle. Keep in mind though, that there are probably people out there who are more generous, more ascetic and selfless than you. Why not strive to be like them if you truly make decisions that benefit the majority rather than yourself. Why not give up all your worldy goods and help those in Africa?

I don't have it in me either...I like nice things too much.

Plus I'm read enough to realize there's more to world poverty than lack of money. There's enough food to feed everyone but logistal issues prevent transport to remote areas without spoil. We'd also have to oust every dictator that keeps their countries poor and ignorant for ease of control, educate and employ them, AND change their culuture. Which, as everyone who's taken a 1st year poly sci. course knows (and W is just finding out), does not occure via external influence.

Privateer's got a point, Esoteric cables may be made to perfection, but they won't outperform my clear jacket 12 gauge with Ultralink banana's. If I'm paying top dollar, I want my equipment to be unbeatable in performace...in a significantly measureable way. Otherwise I'd be like a Superamerica getting smoked by Tiburon on a twisty two lane...that wouldn't make Ferrari owners very happy, but the Hyundi owner would estatic and wonder why the other guy paid the $130,000 premium!

 

[Sleestack]

Otherwise I'd be like a Superamerica getting smoked by Tiburon on a twisty two lane...that wouldn't make Ferrari owners very happy, but the Hyundi owner would estatic and wonder why the other guy paid the $130,000 premium!

Trust me, I know plenty of Ferrari owners and am very involved with the world of racing and automobile modifications. Ferrari owners aren't going to bemoan their purchase b/c a rice box can outperform it in some aspects. You can take a total POS and modify it so it puts up numbers that exceed almost every car on the road, but when you buy a car you are definitely paying for more than pure performance numbers. I can understand why the Hyundai owner would be happy, but he is deluding himself if he thinks the Ferrari owner even cares.


As for being well read enough to know that money isn't the only solution to poverty... I think we all know that, which is why saying, " I still feel it's bad Karma to spend 2000% more than you have to while some guy is rooting through your garbage trying to avoid starvation. Kinda what the G8 summit is all about...you know...social responsibility?" seemed like a bit of a stretch for me.

 

[mtrycrafts]

some guy is rooting through your garbage trying to avoid starvation. Kinda what the G8 summit is all about...you know...social responsibility?" seemed like a bit of a stretch for me.

Well, there is more to it than that
Corruption is a major part of this poverty, greed by some in power. Another is self respect.

 

[furrycute]

Well, there is more to it than that
Corruption is a major part of this poverty, greed by some in power. Another is self respect.

Self-determination is not the entire solution to poverty.

Self-determination in some respects is an American myth.

If you are born into a family of 8, and your family lives in some remote mountainous region, and your family makes their living from subsistence living. No matter what kind of self detemination you have, what kind of future would you most likely have?

 

[mtrycrafts]

If you are born into a family of 8, and your family lives in some remote mountainous region, and your family makes their living from subsistence living. No matter what kind of self detemination you have, what kind of future would you most likely have?

Not sure. But are they in poverty? Or an existance different from many others? How else would a family live in a mountainous region? That kind of living is all over the world. Why? Will more $$$ help them improve their existance for the rest of their lives? Or, that $$$ has to be doled out for the rest of their lives? Maybe they need to move? Different way to make a living?
But if I had the answer, I'd be in power and solve it

 

[zipper]

I can't believe I just read a review of a power cord......................or that the guy honestly believes his music sounds better because of it.

 

[markw]

Wdlcome to the world of Hi End Audio.

I can't believe I just read a review of a power cord......................or that the guy honestly believes his music sounds better because of it.

Been snooping at the asylum again, have you?

 

[jaxvon]

No, I posted a review from Audioreview on one of the earlier pages to illustrate an example.

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

Tough to say just where "conspicuous consumption" goes from a pleasant bit of self indulgence to ridiculous frippery. A fuzzy line, but I think the famous dictum about pornography (hard to define, but you know it when you see it) fits!

Now, a Ferrari (since it was brought up) is to my mind a perfectly reasonable bit of self indulgence that I'd treat myself to if only the Universe had seen fit to reward me as I deserved. Sure, my Subaru WRX may perform up to what were recently supercar standards in many respects...but it doesn't have Pininfarina design. Or that 12 cylinder sound. Or those other intangibles that separate the great cars from the merely very good. On the other hand, a lot of the megabuck high end audio gear (not just the cables) strikes me as the equivalent of a gold-plated Ferrari with silver wiring and platinum pistons - ridiculous frippery that does nothing to improve the car and might even degrade it's performance.

What gets me is that the Audiogoners and Audio Asylum inmates seem to genuinely think that all the "gold plating" does make a difference in audio. If they said, "oh, I just think the $2k cables and $80k amp looked cool and I felt like it" it would be one thing. But no! We get the guff about "microdiodes" and "break in" and "midrange liquidity".

Paradoxically, I doubt that they would laugh at the idea that silver spark plug wires and platinum pistons* would improve a Ferrari's 0 to 100Km/h or lap times. What is it about audio that brings out the credulity in some people?

Another thing: except for members of the Lucky Sperm Club, a lot of these folks had to earn their piles 'o' cash the old fashioned way, often in careers that presumably require the regular exercise of logic and critical thinking. Makes you wonder...

-----

*Yeah, yeah, I know about lightweight forged pistons...gimme a break!

 

[Sleestack]

What gets me is that the Audiogoners and Audio Asylum inmates seem to genuinely think that all the "gold plating" does make a difference in audio. If they said, "oh, I just think the $2k cables and $80k amp looked cool and I felt like it" it would be one thing. But no! We get the guff about "microdiodes" and "break in" and "midrange liquidity".

Paradoxically, I doubt that they would laugh at the idea that silver spark plug wires and platinum pistons* would improve a Ferrari's 0 to 100Km/h or lap times. What is it about audio that brings out the credulity in some people?

Another thing: except for members of the Lucky Sperm Club, a lot of these folks had to earn their piles 'o' cash the old fashioned way, often in careers that presumably require the regular exercise of logic and critical thinking. Makes you wonder...

-----

*Yeah, yeah, I know about lightweight forged pistons...gimme a break!

It is quite funny how the standards for supercar performance have taken leaps and bounds in the last few years. Interestingly enough, much of that was fueled by the German carmakers engaging in horsepower wars. I hada 430 hp C32 AMG built for my wife and I rarely think about it as a high hp car, despite the fact that she goes through tires every 5K miles.

In any case, I believe for most people, cars elicit more interest and passion than stereo equipment. Most Ferrari owners I know are very knowledgeable about their cars. They also have nice audio/HT equipment, but don't really sweat the details as long as it sounds/looks good. They ususally rely on 3rd party advice and aren't going to take the time to think through whether or they spent too much as long as it falls within a preconceived budget. Thus, if Mr. Enzo owner turns to his stereo guy and says build me a killer system for about $100K, he isn't going to care if $20K of that was allocated to cables. I don't think it has to do with not exercising logic or critical thinking... I think it is more a matter of having other things to worry about and not caring.

In my case, I bought Cardas Golden Reference for my 2 channel simply b/c I didn't want to wire my 2 channel system with budget cable. I don't think the Cardas will create any magic, but they certainly look nice and costs are in line with the rest of my 2 channel system. For my HT, I just use Cobalt cables.

On a last note... the one area where I do see car owners buying the equivalent of esoteric cables is wheels. Many people put expensive wheels on their performance cars, not realizing that many of those wheels are just adding unsprung weight and reducing the performance of their cars. I love the design of HRE wheels, but don't tellme you are buying them for performance. I always swap out wheels, but I always make sure that the wheel's aesthetics don't take priority over their purpose.

Lastly... I had as custom made 6.3 liter SCed engine made for my MB... it uses custom-made lightweight forged pistons.

 

[RMK!]

Tough to say just where "conspicuous consumption" goes from a pleasant bit of self indulgence to ridiculous frippery. A fuzzy line, but I think the famous dictum about pornography (hard to define, but you know it when you see it) fits!

Now, a Ferrari (since it was brought up) is to my mind a perfectly reasonable bit of self indulgence that I'd treat myself to if only the Universe had seen fit to reward me as I deserved. Sure, my Subaru WRX may perform up to what were recently supercar standards in many respects...but it doesn't have Pininfarina design. Or that 12 cylinder sound. Or those other intangibles that separate the great cars from the merely very good. On the other hand, a lot of the megabuck high end audio gear (not just the cables) strikes me as the equivalent of a gold-plated Ferrari with silver wiring and platinum pistons - ridiculous frippery that does nothing to improve the car and might even degrade it's performance.

What gets me is that the Audiogoners and Audio Asylum inmates seem to genuinely think that all the "gold plating" does make a difference in audio. If they said, "oh, I just think the $2k cables and $80k amp looked cool and I felt like it" it would be one thing. But no! We get the guff about "microdiodes" and "break in" and "midrange liquidity".

Paradoxically, I doubt that they would laugh at the idea that silver spark plug wires and platinum pistons* would improve a Ferrari's 0 to 100Km/h or lap times. What is it about audio that brings out the credulity in some people?

Another thing: except for members of the Lucky Sperm Club, a lot of these folks had to earn their piles 'o' cash the old fashioned way, often in careers that presumably require the regular exercise of logic and critical thinking. Makes you wonder...

-----

*Yeah, yeah, I know about lightweight forged pistons...gimme a break!

"Lucky Sperm Club" Rip...you da man!

 

[jaxvon]

I don't think the Cardas will create any magic, but they certainly look nice and costs are in line with the rest of my 2 channel system.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. When you have the extra cash to burn, it just seems "right" to spend more on cables when you're spending upwards of $30k+ on the other stuff in your system.

 

[Spiffyfast]

I agree, someone who drops 25k+ on a system would just feel cautious spending $200 dollars on cables. It'd be like buying a Porsche and throwing $35 dollar walmart house brand tires.......I know tires actually improve performance, but you get my idea.

 

[RMK!]

I agree, someone who drops 25k+ on a system would just feel cautious spending $200 dollars on cables. It'd be like buying a Porsche and throwing $35 dollar walmart house brand tires.......I know tires actually improve performance, but you get my idea.

Great rationalizations of a stupid expenditure