$1500 for amp - New or 10 Year Old High End

[Trvlngnrs]

Hi, I have a question... with a $1500 budget what is more desirable to power a pair of Revel F206s and a C208. A new Monolith, Emotiva, etc or a used higher end amp like Rotel, Cinenova, Classe, etc.

Has technology improved enough that the newer products surpass the older more expensive ones?

More info: Currently the Revels are being driven by a Denon X7200WA - 150w/channel. When listening to music I have the volume up in the 70's, occasionally 80, on a scale of 0 - 98.

Thanks for your thoughts!
Trvlngnrs

 

[MrBoat]

With any of those amp selections, it's still going to be more about the speakers.

I'd say newer is better because of having the benefit of a warranty and knowing how it was used and cared for from the start. I'd hate to pay nearly as much for an older legacy model only to have it crap out a couple years from now, or it being suspect if something isn't exactly right.

I buy used stuff, but only if it's enough of a deal to where I could recover it within it's value after the fact if it needs repair, and that's with me doing the work myself. I almost always figure on having to rebuild used, sooner than later.

 

[PENG]

If you mainly watch movies and 2 channel music, get an A21 and call it a day. The C208 has a slightly better sensitivity, the listening distance will be shorter and you can crossover at 90 Hz without worrying about localization so the AVR should be fine for it. If you really feel the need later you can easily add a low cost monoblock.

 

[TheWarrior]

Crown amps! Keep it all in the family.

 

[Pogre]

I vote new. I just recently turned down a great deal on a vintage amp-pre set and went new. I have no worries that it'll crap out on me or need caps replaced and the warranty is nice.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hi, I have a question... with a $1500 budget what is more desirable to power a pair of Revel F206s and a C208. A new Monolith, Emotiva, etc or a used higher end amp like Rotel, Cinenova, Classe, etc.

Has technology improved enough that the newer products surpass the older more expensive ones?

More info: Currently the Revels are being driven by a Denon X7200WA - 150w/channel. When listening to music I have the volume up in the 70's, occasionally 80, on a scale of 0 - 98.

Thanks for your thoughts!
Trvlngnrs

A new amp might change where the volume control numbers are but that is about it.
How does it perform with movies?
Is there performance issues with that Denon or just where the volume control is at?

If the latter, save your money.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hi, I have a question... with a $1500 budget what is more desirable to power a pair of Revel F206s and a C208. A new Monolith, Emotiva, etc or a used higher end amp like Rotel, Cinenova, Classe, etc.

Has technology improved enough that the newer products surpass the older more expensive ones?

More info: Currently the Revels are being driven by a Denon X7200WA - 150w/channel. When listening to music I have the volume up in the 70's, occasionally 80, on a scale of 0 - 98.

Thanks for your thoughts!
Trvlngnrs

The Denon 7200 is a beast. 150WPC is a lot of power. And the volume knob is all relative, meaning it's not a true indicator that you need an amp, as mtrycrafts pointed out.

For example, you could manually set all your speaker Channel Levels to 80dB, instead of 75dB, and a volume of 70 becomes extremely loud.

But, if you just desire an amp like most of us do , then I would vote for a new or almost-new Crown, Monolith, Outlaw, ATI.

 

[Trvlngnrs]

Thank you for all the advice guys! I appreciate it.

It is plenty loud for me now, my thought was to have a little more headroom (don't know if I need it.... just thought it would be good to have) and to take some of the load off the 7200, as it is powering 9 speakers (5.1.4).

I don't want to harm the Revel's by playing them at 80% of the Denon's capability, but if the volume indicator isn't really relative to what the system is doing I guess it doesn't matter.

What should I look/listen for to determine if the system is being stressed or pushed too hard?

 

[PENG]

Thank you for all the advice guys! I appreciate it.

It is plenty loud for me now, my thought was to have a little more headroom (don't know if I need it.... just thought it would be good to have) and to take some of the load off the 7200, as it is powering 9 speakers (5.1.4).

I don't want to harm the Revel's by playing them at 80% of the Denon's capability, but if the volume indicator isn't really relative to what the system is doing I guess it doesn't matter.

What should I look/listen for to determine if the system is being stressed or pushed too hard?

It is better to change the volume scale to the scale -79.5 to +18. Everyone knows 0 (80) is reference, that is 85dB from the main position of the Mic when you ran Audyssey.

Then you/we can figure out if your Denon and/or speakers are "stressed or pushed too hard" at volume 0 or 80 if you have the following information.

- Your main listening position distance to the speakers.
- Room dimensions including ceiling height.
- You speaker's sensitivities, (you already provided).
- The speaker level settings for the each speakers (not really necessary but nice to know).

The F208's voltage sensitivity is 88.5 dB at 1 meter with nominal impedance of 8 ohm that seems optimistic. That Denon has been benched tested by S&V so we know it can produce about 150 clean watts into 8 ohms, or 235 watts into 4 ohms, two channels driven at the same time.
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x7200w-av-receiver-test-bench

You can also try to use the online calculator http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html to figure it out yourself using the above information. If you do, deduct the 88.5 dB voltage sensitivity by say 2 (3 if you want to be conservative) dB to allow for a couple of impedance dips in the lower frequency range.

If you are truly listening at reference level, that is very loud, it is too loud for me in the movie cinema but people don't go there every day.

 

[Hetfield]

All I know is I added a very nice Parasound 5 channel amp to my HT and it sounds fantastic. Really added another dimension of sound quality to the HT. I went from 95 watts of Yamaha receiver power to 140 watts of a stand alone Parasound amp. It's a completely different animal altogether. I would say it made a very big to huge difference in overall sound quality.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...take some of the load off the 7200, as it is powering 9 speakers (5.1.4)...

I think most of us understand this reasoning.

Heat is the enemy for sure. How hot does the 7200 get after 2 or 3 hours of playing a movie?

Will the 7200 run much cooler if you added a $1,500 amp vs a $100 cooling system?

If adding an external amp decreases heat by 3 F degrees and adding a cooling system decreases heat by 9 F degrees, which will make the 7200 last longer?

Of course, you could do both (external amp + cooling).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...I don't want to harm the Revel's by playing them at 80% of the Denon's capability...

You mean due to power clipping?

Another good concern.

The 7200 has speaker protection circuit and will go into protection mode if triggered.

Has this ever happened?

I think bottom line is, if you are not listening to deafening volume, you don't need to worry.

The Revel 208 is rated for 50W - 350W, so 150W seems to be a good amount.

I have used an ATI 60WPC amp (AT6012) to power the Revel Salon2 to 90dB. So 150WPC is good.

But again, there's nothing wrong with adding an external high quality amp.

 

[Trvlngnrs]

Lots of good info in the thread....thank you!

Here is an update....

I switched the volume to the dB scale as recommended. For TV we listen around -20dB. Music via 2 channel + sub at -13dB was "loud" for my wife, I'd probably turn it up louder for a song or two but not for any duration.

My listening position is 15' from speakers, room is irregular but roughly 28' x 26' x 11'.

System is Denon X7200WA, 2 F206's, F208 center, Hsu VTF3 MK5 sub, 2 SVS Elevation surrounds and 4 RSL E34C's for ceiling heights.

According to the SPL link you gave me the dB at listening position is 102.6 dB at 150 watts in stereo mode.

I have 2 cooling fans on the AVR so it doesn't get hot. I've never had it go into speaker protection mode, I didn't know it had that ability to protect the speakers - thanks for that nugget of info!

Thoughts?

 

[lovinthehd]

Unless you're hearing problems or indications the Denon amp isn't capable at your highest volumes, I think you're set. But if you have to scratch that itch....