obscbyclouds

obscbyclouds

Senior Audioholic
24 frames is standard because that is what was available or for whatever reason decided on in the beginning. Does that mean that they cannot change? And how is the higher frame rate differ from the 24 frames? How is that not 'film' like? Looks more real life? Something we are not used to see in theaters? Things change. After all, we now have music on flash cards and in digital format, got away from the vinyl and we got used to it:D
This is exactly what I was trying to say. I don't understand how 24 fps is inherently "better" than 60 fps....can anyon help me out here???? :confused:
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
Anyone who thinks that 24 fps is the best way to show film is sadly mistaken and uninformed. There was an amazing film technology called MaxiVision that used 35mm film at 48fps and was said to be amazing. Roger Ebert said it was the most impressive looking picture he had ever seen on the big screen. You can read a little about it at the link below. 24fps can't even do a simple pan and keep the background in focus; 48fps MaxiVision could.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19991212/COMMENTARY/212010335/1023

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxivision
 
zhimbo

zhimbo

Audioholic General
This is exactly what I was trying to say. I don't understand how 24 fps is inherently "better" than 60 fps....can anyon help me out here???? :confused:
Well, there's simply no doubt that there's a *difference* between the two frame rates. That's trivially easy to show. Both look more or less smooth, but different "kinds" of smoothness. But the question is whether one is "better"...

Given that there is some difference, one could assume people just have a preference, or you could say that the original format should always be respected.

On the other hand:
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117503451.html?categoryid=5&cs=1
"Very roughly speaking, film creates an alpha state of reverie due to its imperceptible flickering, therefore creating a more emotional and intense reaction Television, by contrast, creates a beta state that is constant and more hypnotic, which is why people can sit in front of the TV screen for hours at a stretch."

Roger Ebert talks about this from time to time. Maybe a stretch, as I can't seem to track down the original source for this sort of idea, but I thought I'd throw that out there. This whole "feel" business may - possibly - have a pretty important neural difference. Maybe.

Ah, a little bit more info I just found:
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117503451.html?categoryid=5&cs=1
"He mentioned data (cited in Jerry Mander’s famous polemic Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television) indicating that film creates a beta state of alert reverie in the brain, where tv provokes an alpha state of passive suggestibility. Is it possible, Ebert wonders, that the subliminal catnip that people value in movies is being thrown out with the celluloid, and that audiences will soon abandon digital movies because they’re too much like tv?"

Clearly these are multiple steps removed from real data (and one of them gets the details reversed). But maybe there is something important about 24fps?
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
Ebert was wrong with his prediction of course but I would have loved to been able to see The Lord of The Rings in Maxivison.
 
emorphien

emorphien

Audioholic General
This is exactly what I was trying to say. I don't understand how 24 fps is inherently "better" than 60 fps....can anyon help me out here???? :confused:
24fps, without the motion blurring that goes on, can sometimes look choppy. I think a lot of people have some feeling that the motion blur of 24fps is necessary for having film look "right" but there's nothing that prevents higher frame rates from looking good either. People are just used to 24 blurred frames per second.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
This is exactly what I was trying to say. I don't understand how 24 fps is inherently "better" than 60 fps....can anyon help me out here???? :confused:
The problem today and the longer we put off the inevitable, is that the archives volume worldwide of film on 24 frames is tremendous. If you convert to a higher rate, what happens to the archived films? Movie projectors that have dual frame rates? Replace them all worldwide?

Not a simple solution but certainly with digital archiving, it may be solved.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Anyone who thinks that 24 fps is the best way to show film is sadly mistaken and uninformed. There was an amazing film technology called MaxiVision that used 35mm film at 48fps and was said to be amazing. Roger Ebert said it was the most impressive looking picture he had ever seen on the big screen. You can read a little about it at the link below. 24fps can't even do a simple pan and keep the background in focus; 48fps MaxiVision could.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19991212/COMMENTARY/212010335/1023

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxivision
Yes, that would be a solution and perhaps not an expensive proposition to replace older projectors and the old film will also project on them:D

I wonder how much more in $$ for the extra film needed at that frame rate and the new cameras.
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
Yes, that would be a solution and perhaps not an expensive proposition to replace older projectors and the old film will also project on them:D

I wonder how much more in $$ for the extra film needed at that frame rate and the new cameras.
I don't know, but I think going forward all movies should be shot in HD at faster frame rates.
 

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