1000w speakers a lie?

[everettT]

Thanks for the input?impressive performance.do you know how long the max long term test implies?can the speaker take a sine wave for about 2 hours at 70+ volts?

Probably not lol, but the original test was for long term output per cedia . Josh did note that it could take the largest of road gear amplification, I'm sure if you message him he can shed some light on it.

 

[Steve81]

FWIW:

Long term output compression sweeps. After setting the DUT's output level to correspond to an output of 90dB at 50Hz at a 2m distance using a 50hz sine wave signal, the response is measured using an ascending 0-120hz sine wave sweep of 24 second duration.

Note that this is far more abusive to a driver than any real world content is likely to be. No driver is meant to take full power for long periods of time, i.e. 2 hours.

 

[Sx57]

No, they are a guide for people with common sense to get an idea of what their speakers can realistically handle in real world situations.

Can you run at 28 mph for an extended period of time?

I am talking about unrealistic RMS numbers that are something for dishonest advertisement.
It's like me saying that I can run for 28mph for extended time instead of just 5 seconds(if I could at all).

 

[sterling shoote]

My personal experience, having too little power is what causes damage to speakers, not having too much power. I have a JBL B-380 passive 15 inch subwoofer. It was originally powered by a Sony TA-N55ES Power Amp operating in bridged mode, which produced about 300 watts. Now, the recommended amp power is 600 watts. Nevertheless, I used the TA-N55ES, thinking for movies and music it would be enough power. I was wrong. Severe clipping was common, sounding like a sledge hammer hitting a steel plate. Now, I use a Sony TA-N80ES operating in bridged mode to produce about 560 watts, which gets the job done. I have no doubt that 1000 watts to my sub or to something like a JBL L300 class product would not be too much power. I think in fact that the sound would first become unbearably loud before any damage to the speaker would occur, that's to say, I would be more concerned about damaging my ears.

 

[highfigh]

My personal experience, having too little power is what causes damage to speakers, not having too much power. I have a JBL B-380 passive 15 inch subwoofer. It was originally powered by a Sony TA-N55ES Power Amp operating in bridged mode, which produced about 300 watts. Now, the recommended amp power is 600 watts. Nevertheless, I used the TA-N55ES, thinking for movies and music it would be enough power. I was wrong. Severe clipping was common, sounding like a sledge hammer hitting a steel plate. Now, I use a Sony TA-N80ES operating in bridged mode to produce about 560 watts, which gets the job done. I have no doubt that 1000 watts to my sub or to something like a JBL L300 class product would not be too much power. I think in fact that the sound would first become unbearably loud before any damage to the speaker would occur, that's to say, I would be more concerned about damaging my ears.

The B380 is rated for 600W maximum amplifier power, it doesn't mean it will live long with 600W going to it for long periods. I used to sell those-they worked fine with less than 300W but we weren't reaching the SPL you're using.

 

[sterling shoote]

The B380 is rated for 600W maximum amplifier power, it doesn't mean it will live long with 600W going to it for long periods. I used to sell those-they worked fine with less than 300W but we weren't reaching the SPL you're using.

Mine did not work fine with 300 so I don't think it would work fine with less than 300, at least not at what would be perceived to be a realistic level. At any rate, my sub is now about 30 years old and I've used it everyday since I purchased it new. It still works and it's been powered by my 560 watt Sony TA-N80ES for over 20 years playing music and movies at room filling volumes. I'd say the sub has lived very long with a lot of power going to it. The only repair has been the replacement of its foam surround about 4 years ago. Like I said in my previous post, and in fact what the JBL folks say, a speaker would need to be driven to very unpleasant levels before it would be damaged. Far more likely would be damage to one's hearing first. Again, clipping from trying to play music and movies at realistic levels with too little amp power is what is most likely to cause speaker damage. BTW, I think my sub is rated at 90db SPL with 1 watt at 3.3 feet. And, although it is said to work with amps with as little as 200 watts power, I found I could not produce the volume I wanted with 300 watts without severe clipping. With 560 watts I have not heard any clipping, so I think the maximum power rating for my sub stated to be 600 watts is accurate for real world conditions.

 

[herbu]

Can you run at 28 mph for an extended period of time?

Not even if it were downhill, with nekkid Jessica Alba in front and a pack of rabid wolves behind me.

 

[Sx57]

My personal experience, having too little power is what causes damage to speakers, not having too much power. I have a JBL B-380 passive 15 inch subwoofer. It was originally powered by a Sony TA-N55ES Power Amp operating in bridged mode, which produced about 300 watts.

low power is not what kills a speaker,nor is clipping.the actual thing that happens is increasing rms power by driving an amp to the levels that the speaker cannot take.if you use an clipping 100w(peak) amp on a 800w peak speaker,chances of blowing the speaker is very low ,but if the speaker is 100w(peak),it has a big chance of failing because the amp is now pushed and produces clipped signal and more rms power ,and the more you push it,the more you will increase rms while the peaks are just cut off(clipping).by increasing the rms power,your are increasing the amount of persistent heat that the speakers has to cope with and this is the ticket to heaven for the drivers(it is possible the amp can reach 100w rms if you push it too much and the power supply can cope with the current requirement).now if you use more powerful amp(for example 100w rms not peak) for the 100w peak speaker,you can still increase the rms wattage just with less distortion but the speaker will blow anyway because it can not take more heat than what it is designed for.
take a look at this article for a much better explanation http://sound.westhost.com/tweeters.htm
i also took a look at b380 and it is rated for 600w continuous sine wave so i think the more powerful amp shoudn't have harmed it.

 

[Sx57]

The B380 is rated for 600W maximum amplifier power, it doesn't mean it will live long with 600W going to it for long periods. I used to sell those-they worked fine with less than 300W but we weren't reaching the SPL you're using.

it's actually rated for 600w continuous sine wave.however you may be right because the specs don't mention for how long or what standard.companies specs are lacking enough info most of the time.

 

[Sx57]

Not even if it were downhill, with nekkid Jessica Alba in front and a pack of rabid wolves behind me.

lol.why not man?wouldn't you try your best?!

 

[sterling shoote]

Too little power on this bad boy will cause clipping like you've never heard. It sounds like a sledge hammer hitting a steel plate. My 300 watt Sony TA-N55ES was not powerful enough to play music/movies at realistic volume without producing such effect. I have had no issues with the 560 watt Sony TA-N80ES.The point is, too little power can and does damage speakers.

 

[Sx57]

View attachment 18388 Too little power on this bad boy will cause clipping like you've never heard. It sounds like a sledge hammer hitting a steel plate. My 300 watt Sony TA-N55ES was not powerful enough to play music/movies at realistic volume without producing such effect. I have had no issues with the 560 watt Sony TA-N80ES.The point is, too little power can and does damage speakers.

Changing the amp was a good move.

 

[highfigh]

Mine did not work fine with 300 so I don't think it would work fine with less than 300, at least not at what would be perceived to be a realistic level. At any rate, my sub is now about 30 years old and I've used it everyday since I purchased it new. It still works and it's been powered by my 560 watt Sony TA-N80ES for over 20 years playing music and movies at room filling volumes. I'd say the sub has lived very long with a lot of power going to it. The only repair has been the replacement of its foam surround about 4 years ago. Like I said in my previous post, and in fact what the JBL folks say, a speaker would need to be driven to very unpleasant levels before it would be damaged. Far more likely would be damage to one's hearing first. Again, clipping from trying to play music and movies at realistic levels with too little amp power is what is most likely to cause speaker damage. BTW, I think my sub is rated at 90db SPL with 1 watt at 3.3 feet. And, although it is said to work with amps with as little as 200 watts power, I found I could not produce the volume I wanted with 300 watts without severe clipping. With 560 watts I have not heard any clipping, so I think the maximum power rating for my sub stated to be 600 watts is accurate for real world conditions.

I would like to have seen why the clipping occurred. What was ahead of that amp and what kind of LP filter was used?

 

[highfigh]

it's actually rated for 600w continuous sine wave.however you may be right because the specs don't mention for how long or what standard.companies specs are lacking enough info most of the time.

Here's a document from EAW, on testing methods. It could be helpful, for many people who aren't clear about why speakers fail.

http://eaw.com/docs/6_Technical_Information/StudyHall_and_TechNotes/Power_Handling.pdf

 

[sterling shoote]

That's a really informative article. It states factually what I have long ago surmised when I first heard the effects of clipping. I can't remember the material, music or movie, which made me realize I needed more power; but, hearing the startling effect, I quickly re-amped with the higher power amp I had on hand.

 

[Don G.]

Thank you for your explanation.
So am I right in concluding that no speaker driver can take long continuous RMS power (at least 2 hours)? the reason I ask is that I see a lot of pa speakers claiming big powers which are also bi amped.for example Yamaha DSR 115 or EV zxa5.I always wonder how in hell these speakers can waste such heat!where all the heat goes? My PC has a gtx 970which needs a good amount of fans plus it's own to waste much less heat than 1000ws.how such speakers could waste such heat?shouldn't a 250w real RMS pa speaker warm my house like a 230w heater really? I have 2 behringer 115d which are 250w RMS(I am guessing 1000w peak must be 250w at most optimistically) at max and db sub808d(500w rms) in my house and even when I am pushing them,I feel no heat or increasd heat in my house or even near the speakers.man where is the heat then?

I don't know what kind of house you live in, but you are not going to heat anything with 230w. That is just two 100w light bulbs and a night light. My freaking hair drier is 1,875w and it won't heat my house either. The heater on my spa is almost 8,000w. 1,000 watts is nothing in terms of heaters or hair driers or even an iron. It is a lot for a speaker, no doubt, but live concerts use thousands of watts to achieve the spl's they have.