My 7:1 in-ceiling SpeakerCraft setup has never handled (DVD) voices properly...

[Bill F]

During a major remodel about 8 years ago, installed 5 AIM 8 Threes and a back pair of 6" CRS. That was my extravagance; the TV's been a 40" and the receiver/amp a mid-priced Yamaha.

The Yamaha started dropping channels a half year ago, so I finally went on Craigslist and picked-up another mid-range Yamaha, the RX-V675. Since I'm in shopping mode, I'm thinking that I should disconnect the ceiling center, and just replace it with a center speaker. So I've been watching what's on Craigslist here the the SF Bay Area, but slowly deciding that I should actually get something matched to my remaining built-in speakers, or at least something decent.

I visited one of of the chains, and he said Martin Logan 8i. I called a big mail order business, and he said Martin Logan 30, "the 8i is too small."

I called SpeakerCraft, and learned that they haven't sold "box" speakers in awhile, just in-wall. he commented that I didn't need to fixate on matching the brand, but should keep an eye on timber-matching and frequency crossover. He mentioned that I should match impedance (8 ohms) but then commented that Yamaha probably could handle 4 or 6 ohm. He mentioned that SpeakerCraft did also sell Proficient Audio, in enclosures.

So now I'm on eBay, trying to decide what to get. There are SpeakerCraft box centers (the 6.1, and one 6.5) for as low as $40 (dinged). If I'm to match timber, then there's one person selling a boxed center (AIM Monitor Three LCR) for $275 + $87 shipping. And there are Martin Logans and Proficients galore.

What do I do? Should I buy a dinged SpeakerCraft 6.1, and even see if a TV-level center is the correct solution? Or should I just solved the problem, and buy _ _ _ _ _? (You tell me!) Thanks!

Update: After writing this, I said to myself - you've got the chance to test your hypothesis for $40 (dinged old Speakercraft center) and you're sitting there blogging? So I just ordered it. But I doubt that that's my long-term solution. In the photo below, the seats next to the lamp is the typical watching-position. You can see the three front in-ceilings; they're each about 10 feet away from the lamp-area. Those AIM Threes are aimed, to that helps a bit. What should I put right under that TV, so that movies sound better?

Bill in SF

 

[TLS Guy]

During a major remodel about 8 years ago, installed 5 AIM 8 Threes and a back pair of 6" CRS. That was my extravagance; the TV's been a 40" and the receiver/amp a mid-priced Yamaha.

The Yamaha started dropping channels a half year ago, so I finally went on Craigslist and picked-up another mid-range Yamaha, the RX-V675. Since I'm in shopping mode, I'm thinking that I should disconnect the ceiling center, and just replace it with a center speaker. So I've been watching what's on Craigslist here the the SF Bay Area, but slowly deciding that I should actually get something matched to my remaining built-in speakers, or at least something decent.

I visited one of of the chains, and he said Martin Logan 8i. I called a big mail order business, and he said Martin Logan 30, "the 8i is too small."

I called SpeakerCraft, and learned that they haven't sold "box" speakers in awhile, just in-wall. he commented that I didn't need to fixate on matching the brand, but should keep an eye on timber-matching and frequency crossover. He mentioned that I should match impedance (8 ohms) but then commented that Yamaha probably could handle 4 or 6 ohm. He mentioned that SpeakerCraft did also sell Proficient Audio, in enclosures.

So now I'm on eBay, trying to decide what to get. There are SpeakerCraft box centers (the 6.1, and one 6.5) for as low as $40 (dinged). If I'm to match timber, then there's one person selling a boxed center (AIM Monitor Three LCR) for $275 + $87 shipping. And there are Martin Logans and Proficients galore.

What do I do? Should I buy a dinged SpeakerCraft 6.1, and even see if a TV-level center is the correct solution? Or should I just solved the problem, and buy _ _ _ _ _? (You tell me!) Thanks!

Bill in SFView attachment 28786

Your whole problem is ceiling speakers. Ceiling speakers are just about acceptable for surrounds at a push, but nothing else. You will get nowhere with your current arrangement.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

The Speakercraft rep’s advice is generally good, but I don’t think timbre-matching is all that important in your situation.

Even if the new “box” speaker and in-ceiling are perfectly timbre-matched, the center will be pointed at the listening position, while the front left and right are pointed at the floor. Thus they will sound drastically different.

Less you doubt, just go to a department store or big-box hardware store and notice how much differently the overhead speakers sound when you’re directly underneath them vs. 10-15 ft. away.

That said, the Speakercraft AIM Monitor Three LCR you’re looking at on ebay appears to be a much better speaker than the 6.1 LCR.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[panteragstk]

I've got an all ceiling 5 channel Soeakercraft system in my living room. It's tolerable, but it's by far the lowest in quality compared to anything else in my house.

If possible, get three front speakers that are from the same line and user your front ceiling speakers for ambient music. If you can't do that and have to use ceiling speakers I'd just stick with what you have. Mine sounds decent for what it is, but calibration made a huge difference for me.

EDIT: Have you tried angling the tweeters more toward your listening position? That should help as well.

 

[Bill F]

Your whole problem is ceiling speakers. Ceiling speakers are just about acceptable for surrounds at a push, but nothing else. You will get nowhere with your current arrangement.

I was hoping for more constructive comments...

 

[Bill F]

The Speakercraft rep’s advice is generally good, but I don’t think timbre-matching is all that important in your situation.

Even if the new “box” speaker and in-ceiling are perfectly timbre-matched, the center will be pointed at the listening position, while the front left and right are pointed at the floor. Thus they will sound drastically different.

Less you doubt, just go to a department store or big-box hardware store and notice how much differently the overhead speakers sound when you’re directly underneath them vs. 10-15 ft. away.

That said, the Speakercraft AIM Monitor Three LCR you’re looking at on ebay appears to be a much better speaker than the 6.1 LCR.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Thanks for the guidance. If timber-matching is sort of silly, given the angles, should I just focus on getting the best center I can for the money, e.g., whatever's discounted because of a blemish?

 

[Bill F]

I've got an all ceiling 5 channel Soeakercraft system in my living room. It's tolerable, but it's by far the lowest in quality compared to anything else in my house.

If possible, get three front speakers that are from the same line and user your front ceiling speakers for ambient music. If you can't do that and have to use ceiling speakers I'd just stick with what you have. Mine sounds decent for what it is, but calibration made a huge difference for me.

EDIT: Have you tried angling the tweeters more toward your listening position? That should help as well.

Yes, the AIMS are aimed. Based on the vibe I'm getting, should I be considering a sound-bar for DVDs, thus abandoning the ceiling rig?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I was hoping for more constructive comments...

While TLS is sharp tongue, you should excuse him as he is both extremely knowledgeable in matters of audio and electronics and a famously very short patience. He's also 100% correct. You need to switch to speakers positioned where voices should come from - ie front, in-walls aren't ideal, but would be a huge improvement over in-ceiling.

 

[panteragstk]

Yes, the AIMS are aimed. Based on the vibe I'm getting, should I be considering a sound-bar for DVDs, thus abandoning the ceiling rig?

If you can, I would. It'll sound much better.

 

[Bill F]

Update: a friend who just moved to California arrived at my house with a Bose Soundbar 700 and wireless surrounds. Yep, that sounds good, and my ceiling install is unnecessary. The next data point is how to get audio from DVDs that's almost as good as this setup, without dropping $1k...