What's the weakest link in my stereo setup?

[jschlarb]

Here's my current setup (going from output to source):

Vienna Acoustics "Bach" speakers (4 ohms)
Yamaha RX-797 (rated 140W into 4 ohms)
Apple Airport Express
Synology NAS, serving Apple Lossless files

I use my iPhone or iPad with the "Remote" app to select music. My listening position is 12' back, in a 2-story open room (I know this is bad). To make matters worse, I have a bookcase with glass doors sitting between the speakers. The speakers are about 7 feet apart.

I really have 2 questions:
(a) Are my speakers and receiver well-matched, or should upgrade to an integrated amp or even separates? I've been looking at the Yamaha A-S1000 and Emotiva XPA-2 and XPA-200.
(b) Is there any point in upgrading anything, given how bad my room is?

 

[j_garcia]

What complaints do you have about the system's sound? If none, then I don't see a real weak link there. I don't think an integrated amp is going to provide you much in the way of improvement and if you are getting sufficient volume now, then neither is an amp.

 

[zieglj01]

The weakest link is the room and glass/bookcase.

 

[agarwalro]

You need a subwoofer or four .

 

[agarwalro]

On a serious note, your first investment should be a measurement setup. Look at Omnimic or Room Eq Wizard with a calibrated mic from Cross Spectrum Labs. Without setting a baseline, you're just wasting money, blindly making changes. Food for thought...

I noticed your speakers are pretty tightly spaced compared with the distance to seat. Increase the gap between the speakers to make it as close to 12 ft. as possible. Get room treatments.

Have you run YAPO?

 

[j_garcia]

The bookcase can be fixed by hanging a blanket or similar over the front when listening. Bring the speakers at least even to the front of the book case, and preferably slightly further out to give them some space, and it shouldn't be a big issue.

 

[Pyrrho]

In absolute terms, the speakers are pretty much always going to be the weak link in any audio system. You, however, seem to have wisely chosen better than most people in how you have allocated your funds between speakers and the receiver/amplification, as most people cheap out on the speakers too much for how much they blow on the receiver/amplification.

But, of course, if it is not set up properly, that can make a huge difference. And that is where I would try to change things in your case.

Assuming that there are no nasty low dips in the impedance of the speakers (or in other words, assuming that they are an honest 4 ohm speaker), that receiver should be okay with those speakers. You will not be able to drive them to their maximum volume, but it should be fine if you don't listen at deafening levels. And if you do want to listen to higher levels than you can at present, you can buy a separate power amp and use your particular receiver as a preamp/tuner, as it has preamp outputs for that purpose.

Probably the best thing you could do to improve the sound is to change how your system is setup (i.e., move it to a different room, or reposition it and/or other things in your room).

Normally, you want to form something close to an imaginary equilateral triangle with the speakers at two corners and the listening position at the third corner (though for some speakers, this is not right, so I recommend that you look at whatever advice is in your speaker owner's manual for your specific speakers). You should probably either be closer to your speakers or they should probably be further apart. And you probably don't want a glass bookcase between them. You might want to simply pull them further out into the room, as most speakers don't sound their best up near a wall anyway (though, again, consult your manual for your specific case, as some speakers are designed to be up against a wall).

Probably, though, it is best to start as j_garcia did in his response to you, in asking what the specific concerns are that you have about the way it sounds now. What is it about the sound that displeases you?

 

[jschlarb]

Wow, what a fantastic forum - 6 thoughtful replies in less than 2 hours! I think you've all confirmed what I suspected - I need to improve my setup or move to a new room. I'll look into the room measurement, though. When I first set up the gear, I had a perfect equilateral triangle - then my wife rearranged the furniture. I can't blame her; I like her new setup, other than the impact on my stereo listening.

In absolute terms, the speakers are pretty much always going to be the weak link in any audio system. You, however, seem to have wisely chosen better than most people in how you have allocated your funds between speakers and the receiver/amplification, as most people cheap out on the speakers too much for how much they blow on the receiver/amplification.

A Tweeter salesman sold me on that point through several listening sessions. I bought the Bachs in 2001 when I had less money, and $1200 seemed crazy then (I think that's what I paid).

But, of course, if it is not set up properly, that can make a huge difference. And that is where I would try to change things in your case.

Probably the best thing you could do to improve the sound is to change how your system is setup (i.e., move it to a different room, or reposition it and/or other things in your room).

Normally, you want to form something close to an imaginary equilateral triangle with the speakers at two corners and the listening position at the third corner (though for some speakers, this is not right, so I recommend that you look at whatever advice is in your speaker owner's manual for your specific speakers). You should probably either be closer to your speakers or they should probably be further apart. And you probably don't want a glass bookcase between them. You might want to simply pull them further out into the room, as most speakers don't sound their best up near a wall anyway (though, again, consult your manual for your specific case, as some speakers are designed to be up against a wall).

I do pull the speakers out away from the wall for my listening sessions, so that helps. However I think I may need to change my priorities. I have the perfect listening room in the basement, but it's currently doing duty as a gameroom with 8 pinball machines and 3 arcade videogames. Another sickness of mine...

Probably, though, it is best to start as j_garcia did in his response to you, in asking what the specific concerns are that you have about the way it sounds now. What is it about the sound that displeases you?

I think I'm only unhappy with the poor imaging. That's entirely due to me not sitting in the "sweet spot" any more; I have to fix that somehow. Thanks to everyone for offering sensible suggestions; I was ready to throw money at this for no good reason!

The ultimate solution to my problem is to open an arcade bar, and move all my games there so that I have the basement free for music again. Seriously, that is my plan for a retirement job.

 

[j_garcia]

Slap a temporary seat in the sweet spot

 

[agarwalro]

The ultimate solution to my problem is to open an arcade bar, and move all my games there so that I have the basement free for music again. Seriously, that is my plan for a retirement job.

Now that is a crazy awesome retirement plan!

 

[ImcLoud]

What would your budget for upgrade be? We all have "personal" tastes when it comes to sound, I like strong lows, don't like bright speakers, I can not stand speakers too forward ... others like a forward bright sound with uniform lows...

But anyway, the biggest change you are going to hear is a speaker change, if the receiver you have has the input options you need, enough power for your listening habits, and work well, I don't see a reason in changing them...

You can get some speakers that are a little more forgiving in the placement area... I recently am always trying new stuff, and rite now I am hooked on bookshelfs with subs, getting really good sound, can be easier to place and you can get more for your money.

 

[j_garcia]

I've heard the Bachs at a Magnolia on some nice gear. I don't think better speakers will improve things here dramatically, they're a very nice choice.

 

[zieglj01]

While Vienna speakers can be nice - they are famous for frequency dips in the midrange.

 

[jschlarb]

While Vienna speakers can be nice - they are famous for frequency dips in the midrange.

Actually I have noticed that. I'll try cutting back the bass and treble slightly to see if that improves the sound.

 

[shadyJ]

Actually I have noticed that. I'll try cutting back the bass and treble slightly to see if that improves the sound.

Unless you know what ranges to cut, you will probably just make the sound worse. You will want to measure the response you have and EQ accordingly.