Bug in Denon AVR-X4000

[herbu]

FWIW, I discovered a bug in my Denon X4000 related to Zone 2. It was confirmed by Denon Help, and they did provide a workaround.

Here it is:
1) Connect your cable/sat receiver to the X4000 cable/sat input via HDMI.
2) Also connect your cable/sat receiver to the X4000 cable/sat analog inputs via RCA cables.
3) Turn on X4000 main zone to cable/sat. It detects the HDMI multi-channel input.
4) Turn on X4000 Zone 2 to cable/sat. The X4000 only detects 2-channel input for both Main and Zone 2.

If you have both HDMI and analog inputs, and select the same source for Main and Zone 2, the X4000 processor dumbs-down the HDMI multi-channel input to only 2-channel input for the Main zone. Although the processor does artificially create surround output in the Main zone, you lose the LFE. The combination of no LFE and artificial surround results in a far less satisfying experience for TV and especially action movies.

I used cable/sat for the example above, but it is the same for BluRay or other sources IF you select the same source for Main and Zone 2.

I happen to use Zone 2 for wireless headphones. During TV or a movie, I will go outside on the porch to smoke, watching the TV through the window and listening to the wireless headphones. I noticed movies, especially big action movies with a lot of LFE, did not sound nearly as good in the house if I had Zone 2 turned on. After lots of trials and several calls, Denon Help said they were able to recreate it in their lab.

Here's the workaround:
Connect your analog cables to an input on the X4000 that is different than your HDMI input.

For example, I have the cable/sat HDMI cable connected to the HDMI cable/sat input on the X4000.
I have the cable/sat analog cables connected to the Media Player input on the X4000.
Now when I have the Main set to cable/sat, I turn on Zone 2 to Media Player.
The X4000 sees multi-channel cable/sat input in Main, and analog cable/sat input in Zone 2.

Similarly, I have the analog cables from my BluRay player connected to the X4000 CD input.
I can select BluRay for Main, and CD for Zone 2, and all is well.

It's a little hokey for a $1300 receiver, but it works. Maybe they can fix it with a firmware upgrade, or maybe they've already fixed it in current models. I got mine direct from Denon about 2 months ago.

Hope I was clear, and maybe this helps somebody who is struggling with this issue.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I will go outside on the porch to smoke

Okay, stop right there.

You need to quit it so you can live long enough to enjoy your Denon & speakers!

And the amount of money you'll save from not smoking ? Man, you could buy some more nice gears.

 

[adk highlander]

His name has herb in it so I doubt it is cigarettes.

 

[herbu]

His name has herb in it....

40 years ago, you might have been correct, sir. But then, I wouldn't have gone outside... and the only use of headphones was for Pink Floyd or Emerson, Lake & Palmer. Ah, the good old days.

 

[agarwalro]

This is not a bug. The X4000 follows HDMI CEC specs for input audio (signal request from source) being the maximum number of channels in the chain. Since the zone 2 is stereo headphones, the X4000 requests the cable box to send 2.0 over HDMI.

The Denon reps are misinformed.

 

[agarwalro]

Just went through the manual, Pg. 137 states,"If you select the same input source for MAIN ZONE and ZONE 2, audio playback may be restricted".

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just went through the manual, Pg. 137 states,"If you select the same input source for MAIN ZONE and ZONE 2, audio playback may be restricted".

You are on the ball.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

His name has herb in it so I doubt it is cigarettes.

LOL. Good one.

Okay, OP, quit the weed.

 

[agarwalro]

You are on the ball.

I own it, so that helps .

 

[herbu]

This is not a bug. The X4000 follows HDMI CEC specs for input audio (signal request from source) being the maximum number of channels in the chain. Since the zone 2 is stereo headphones, the X4000 requests the cable box to send 2.0 over HDMI.

The Denon reps are misinformed.

I don't understand why this is by design. What is the purpose? Main zone uses HDMI multi-channel input when used by itself. Zone 2 uses 2-channel analog input when used by itself. What is the reason to design a system to dumb down the input for Main when Zone 2 is used?

And if this follows HDMI CEC specs, does every other AVR have the same characteristic?

Thanks.

 

[PENG]

I don't understand why this is by design. What is the purpose? Main zone uses HDMI multi-channel input when used by itself. Zone 2 uses 2-channel analog input when used by itself. What is the reason to design a system to dumb down the input for Main when Zone 2 is used?

And if this follows HDMI CEC specs, does every other AVR have the same characteristic?

Thanks.

I can find out if my Marantz would do the same but I sure hope so as it makes sense to me. If you want to maintain MC for the main zone when using 2 ch for zone 2 you already know how to do it. The way you described how to get around the issue seems logical to me and IMO not a work around but the right way to do it. I wouldn't consider that being a dumb down as such because it is by choice that you connect the analogs to the same input as the HDMI. At the end of the day one could argue that there is no right or wrong way. What some of us consider logical, you may think it makes no sense, that's one reason why standards are needed to try and make things consistent for all to follow.

 

[agarwalro]

I don't understand why this is by design. What is the purpose? Main zone uses HDMI multi-channel input when used by itself. Zone 2 uses 2-channel analog input when used by itself. What is the reason to design a system to dumb down the input for Main when Zone 2 is used?

And if this follows HDMI CEC specs, does every other AVR have the same characteristic?

Thanks.

HDMI CEC implementation is a mess. Only recently has it started working across brands of electronics. I cannot comment on how it works on any other AVR, but, my Onkyo NR818 did the exact same thing. Post 3 in the AVS E/X series Owners Thread is an amazing resource for this AVR. One option for you is to try (assuming you always listen to Main Zone audio on the headphones), Amp Assign set to '9.1ch(SB/FH/FW)' and Main Pre-amps set to 'Front'. Now you can use the headphones on the L, R pre outs without affecting audio processing for Main speakers+sub.