Dead Sub replacement advice

[st0mp]

What I am currently running is a Yamaha RX-V671 updated from my old Yamaha 5450 (Needed HDMI), JBL NSP1 Northridge series bookshelf x4 + center speaker had it matched up with a JBL PB10 Sub. ran this setup but for the AV since 2000 movies 7.5 out of 10 music 10 out of 10 for me. To give ya what my tastes are like. Anyway my Sub has passed away. Services will be held later this week. Looking at the ES250P Sub replacement @ 200$ Been kinda eyeballing that ProCinema 800 setup as well. But anymore i do music more than movies and that small center speaker that is just irritating . My aim is still 50/50 with music/movies best bang for the buck. but maybe a different sub will match my existing and improve on movies a bit would be good as well. i'm still happy with my nsp1's So i kinda don't want to replace them. even with no sub they sound good for music. you can tell its missing the bottom end but overall they do a good job.

Game plan before was to take old speakers put them with the old Av unit and keep in pool room but still would need sub replacement. But i ended up running zone 2 from the rx-v671 to pool room and it works out great with 2 kenwood Liquid towers Old units but very evil No need to replace or even add. Music only in that room.

 

[j_garcia]

STF-2 Subwoofer

The JBL PB-10 was never a good sub and I am honestly quite surprised yours lasted that long because they were known to go up in smoke due to bad amps.

 

[st0mp]

I was never WOWed with it but it did fill in the NSP1's nice seemed to fit what the nsp1's was missing. and as far as most of them going up in smoke. i have read that as well and was really surprised this has lasted this long myself, if you go by what everyone has said. but from the fact of the matter is mine just now died the other day i have always left it in standby mode, Has always light up green when i turn on my av unit. until the other day. and now no red lights when in standby mode maybe they all playing with power switch i dunno. I have always took care of my speakers. break in's and kept clean. My kenwood towers are much older then my jbl's got them back in the 90's and i would not even think about upgrading them today.

 

[j_garcia]

The amps were cheap and the capacitors failed, killing the amps. It is a fairly common issue and isn't limited to JBL, but that particular sub had a very high failure rate. A buddy of mine came home one day to his making a very loud "thrum" with smoke as well. When he contacted JBL they acknowledged the issue and offered him money toward a replacement sub. The HSU I listed is above the price you were asking, but it will easily best the JBL.

The NSP1s were a surprisingly decent speaker at the time. I setup a system based on them for a friend and though they lack deep bass, they sounded good.

 

[zieglj01]

Is you budget $350 and down?

If so, the HSU is a good option

 

[st0mp]

yeah i did not catch that link till after i replied that don't look bad. I have been out of the speaker field for a wile so please forgive if i ask dumb questions. some concerns about that sub. the STF-2 no LFE? I have been a big fan of the LFE on my jbl Yamaha setup. does a good job on action movies. I know the difference in sound from LFE to with out LFE seams i would be missing tones that i was getting with my jbl? nothing supported to nab up from 3-19 Hz's LFE supports 3-120 Mz's i think? if i rem right. gives me a concern that it will not match proper. has everything else i was looking for though. I could prob get it to match really close but for the really low level freq.

 

[j_garcia]

The "sub in" is the same as LFE input, right below the crossover frequency knob.

The PB-10's specs say it was capable of 27hz and the STF-2 is capable of 25Hz (25 - 200 Hz, +/- 2 dB), so actually slightly lower than the JBL, though not enough that you will likely notice a big difference in extension. In terms of output though, the STF-2 is known to have rather good output for the price (the chart in the link shows the output numbers and they are impressive for a ~$300 sub) and HSU's have an excellent reputation for sound quality. I previously owned a VTF-2 and it was a very good sub.

 

[tmurnin]

I own a VTF-2 as well and have been thrilled both with the product and HSU's customer service.

 

[st0mp]

Got to rem the PB10 is dead comparing atm with ES250P sub (not fair to compare new sub with a 13 year old sub) its hitting the same as the one you have shown starting at 25hz But with LFE support so they have work around for your low freq 3 on up. I dunno maybe im wrong about how LFE has always worked. with LFE support from my understanding special sounds that we can not normally hear or that is hard to hear. is turned up by 10 db's auto determined by the sound tech that is making the movie. and or workarounds are implemented? This is Why before when i was testing movies with or with out LFE. and that i would hear the new sounds when my LFE was turned on. I have a hard time buying that the sub you have shown me has a LFE capabilities. most of the subs i have looked at when they do have LFE its always a switch not a input. But as i stated i have been out of this for a wile. keeping up with speakers and such so maybe a lot has changed? Also looking at the Klipsch Sub-12HG Synergy series. so brake down as follows
Brake down as follows
JBL ES250P @ 200$ personally i feel this would be the best match as far as filling in sounds my nsp1 are missing. has sub right and left input with LFE. But would like improvement in movies. Yes i read your post about you do not need to match sub to speakers in other thread. you do not want me to spill out my true feelings on that. guess all speakers now do all the same freq at the same levels for that to be true. no matter what size? Also on plus side to JBL my last one lasted me 13 years im not scared to buy another jbl.
STF-2 @ 330$ unknown brand to me. 130$ more then the jbl but i can see i might get some good sound quality improvement but the lack of LFE tells me its going to bring my sound quality right back down to where i was. with the pb10
and now im looking at the Klipsch Sub-12HG @ 300$ I like the look of this Sub. I have been always impressed with Klipsch speakers kinda iffy about it really matching my Nsp1's though so i am kinda held back by that.

[h=1][/h]

 

[j_garcia]

LFE input pretty much just means that it bypasses the sub's x-over. It has nothing to do with what sound is being sent to the sub. What sounds are sent to the sub is determined by your receiver and how the bass management is configured there. The +10db offset also happens in the receiver as part of the audio decoding, not the sub. The subs you are discussing are no different in this regard; they have exactly the same options as the one mentioned. HSU has been around for over 20 years.

A sub does not "match" speakers exactly, since it does not share frequencies with them when configured correctly. A good sub is a good sub, period.

If you have the ES250 and like it then stick with that.

 

[zieglj01]

A sub does not "match" speakers exactly, since it does not share frequencies with them when configured correctly. A good sub is a good sub, period.

If you have the ES250 and like it then stick with that.

I think the mind was all made up before hand.

 

[st0mp]

so your telling me that LFE is now different from what it was a few years ago? Might want to look this up. http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/Assets/US/Doc/Professional/38_LFE.pdf LFE is more then just a crossover setting. its a entire track setup for sub output. you dont have LFE you will NOT get to hear the track. looks like from what i rem of LFE is still true.

a good sub is a good sub But if your surround speakers are missing or lacking responses in a rang of freq. a well picked out sub will cover the week freq. hence matching the sub to the speakers. I tested a wile back (years ago) with my PB10 with a set of speakers at a friends house the PB10 did sound like crap with them the sound from the sub was to low you could tell you had this range gap between the speakers and the sub. once bought back home and used my NSP1's there was no gap the NSP1's did a better job at the lower tones then my buddy's speakers. TBO if that sub sounded like what it did on my buddys speakers i would have sent it back. Sure you can go out and spend top dollar and not worry about matching or you can match your speakers and get top quality sound with out spending your life savings.

I do not own the ES250 yet. as i stated in my first post looking for good replacement my pb10 died the other day....
was looking for recommendations as stated in topic line.
the lack of the LFE channel on the STF-2 kicks it out of my options It might have good sound quality but if it can't read the track there will be no sound to play. no extra sounds i guess i should say.

 

[fuzz092888]

so your telling me that LFE is now different from what it was a few years ago? Might want to look this up. http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/Assets/US/Doc/Professional/38_LFE.pdf LFE is more then just a crossover setting. its a entire track setup for sub output. you dont have LFE you will NOT get to hear the track. looks like from what i rem of LFE is still true.

That's not exactly how it works. There's no such thing as "LFE support". If the sub preout is plugged into an input on the subwoofer you're getting the LFE channel of the audio track, plus any sound information below the crossover that is set on the receiver. LFE isn't the only thing sent from the sub precut and IF that's what you're saying and IF you think the article you posted supports that, then you're mistaken. If I misunderstood what you're saying or the purpose of the linked article, then there may be something else you have wrong or some point you're trying to make that I'm not getting. Either is possible.

a good sub is a good sub But if your surround speakers are missing or lacking responses in a rang of freq. a well picked out sub will cover the week freq. hence matching the sub to the speakers.

The subwoofers should almost always be operating below the frequency range where they would have any effect on the speakers in question unless the subs weren't properly placed and level matched and/or there is no EQ applied and/or a bad crossover point was chosen.

I tested a wile back (years ago) with my PB10 with a set of speakers at a friends house the PB10 did sound like crap with them the sound from the sub was to low you could tell you had this range gap between the speakers and the sub. once bought back home and used my NSP1's there was no gap the NSP1's did a better job at the lower tones then my buddy's speakers. TBO if that sub sounded like what it did on my buddys speakers i would have sent it back. Sure you can go out and spend top dollar and not worry about matching or you can match your speakers and get top quality sound with out spending your life savings.

Sub probably wasn't properly placed in the room, sounds like the crossover wasn't set correctly, or you were just disappointed with the speakers more than the sub and are misidentifying what you were disappointed with.

I do not own the ES250 yet. as i stated in my first post looking for good replacement my pb10 died the other day....
was looking for recommendations as stated in topic line.
the lack of the LFE channel on the STF-2 kicks it out of my options It might have good sound quality but if it can't read the track there will be no sound to play. no extra sounds i guess i should say.

LFE was already addressed. The STF-2 is a great sub and is within budget. Probably one of your better or best options if SQ is the goal.

 

[zieglj01]

LFE was already addressed. The STF-2 is a great sub and is within budget. Probably one of your better or best options if SQ is the goal.

The JBL sub may be decent for the special price - however, it does have some limitations

Sound & Vision
JBL ES Series home theater speaker system Page 3 | Sound & Vision

 

[st0mp]

I think the mind was all made up before hand.

Any recommendations to the thread would be most useful?
I'm not a big fan of that Sub the STF-2. I have read that it does do the LFE after digging in the manual I see faults in the JBL (lots) as well. and like i said i was never Wowed from the first. If i did i would have ordered it by now. for the money and range these subs are in between just them 2?
Kinda tempted to just hold off until black friday and see what i can get my hands on. im starting to think is my best bet.
one thing i did forget is when i was playing with my sub The old PB10 with LFE was on my old av unit. I found out It's built into the decoder now. After thinking more about it I cant remember if there was a difference on the rx-v671 when lfe was turned on or not. I just remember doing the tests on my old av unit.

 

[fuzz092888]

Any recommendations to the thread would be most useful?
I'm not a big fan of that Sub the STF-2. I have read that it does do the LFE after digging in the manual I see faults in the JBL (lots) as well. and like i said i was never Wowed from the first. If i did i would have ordered it by now. for the money and range these subs are in between just them 2?
Kinda tempted to just hold off until black friday and see what i can get my hands on. im starting to think is my best bet.

Anything you choose at $350 and down will have trade offs, some more severe than others. If you're waiting until Black Friday to go pick up a commercial off the shelf sub, I would guess that it's more than likely going to be a waste of time. If you can't up the budget a little, the suggestions in this thread are your best bet for performance/dollar.

 

[zieglj01]

Any recommendations to the thread would be most useful?

For Black Friday, keep an eye out on

SVS
https://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb-1000#.UnG1U_mTj59

Outlaw Audio
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

Something could show up - If you can swing it
If not - to help fill in the lower octaves - then HSU >
Or, the JBL 150P at Newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882665157

It got a decent review
http://www.avhub.com.au/images/stories/australian-hifi/reviews/2012/2012-09/jbl_sub150p_subwoofer_review_lores.pdf

 

[zhimbo]

"you dont have LFE you will NOT get to hear the track": No, LFE *is* the track. If the track exists, it will be sent to the subwoofer. The subwoofer has no idea if it's being a sent the designated LFE track or just some other signal. The "LFE" label on the sub doesn't indicate some special feature or function of the sub itself, just a type of connection that doesn't have to be named that.

 

[j_garcia]

The JBL S150P got decent reviews and would be a good choice.

A common recommendation in the budget range:

Amazon.com: BIC America F12 12-Inch 475-Watt Front Firing Powered Subwoofer: Electronics

Already on sale:

Dayton Audio SUB-1200 12" 120 Watt Powered Subwoofer 300-629

*One more minor thing: The +10dB offset has ALWAYS been in the decoding as it is part of the specification for DTS and Dolby Digital. The ONLY time it is needed is for other formats, such as DVD-A and SACD, which do not have that offset as part of their spec. It is not an option on most receivers aside from adjusting the level of the sub itself. It is typically found on universal players that support DVD-A and/or SACD, because it is not needed for DD/DTS.

 

[st0mp]

Well i did something today that was kinda not really planned. I was bored and was near a best buy. and they had a open box Supercub 4000. ended up getting it for 550$ was a bit more then what i wanted to spend but you know with the ability to take it back if i dont like. so far they not getting this back. WOW just WOW. still playing with it