Need Advice For a Dorm System :: This is what I want. How do I make it?

[EchoLynx]

First, I'm consciously omitting a price range. I want to know if I can afford what I want, then work on compromising. If necessary, I'm willing to wait, save up, and get what I really want. I just need help finding out what that is, exactly.

I'm currently using a Panasonic SA-PM19 bookshelf stereo system to play CDs and computer audio (FLAC, MP3). It works alright. It doesn't distort at high volumes - something that I really enjoy - but at very low volume levels there's a distracting hiss. This hiss is most prominent when the source is my computer (integrated sound card), feeding the system through the auxiliary in with a 3.5mm to composite audio cable. When playing CDs, it's reduced, but still present.

The bass is very quick and responsive - which I like very much. However, I can hear where the speaker has the best response, where it resonates. The music I'm listening to suddenly has much greater depth. After that range is hit, all the other bass notes sound two dimensional. I think of the hiss, because the sound (Wow it's hard to describe sound with words...) becomes more like surface being created in front of me and less like a sound scape that I'm sitting in. This effect is independent of volume. It's like when you're in first position in the violin and you play a fourth (I think - third finger) higher than any open string. When it's really in tune, it sort of rings.

I want that resonant depth in all my bass. I haven't heard it as distinctly in this system in the upper ranges, but if its possible, I want it there too.

I don't want surround sound. (It's a dorm room.) 2 or 2.1 channels.

In short, I want something that:
- Doesn't hiss at low volume levels.
- Doesn't distort a high volume levels. (I'm more interested in low volume performance.)
- Sounds - err - full? Resonant? Greater than two dimensional?
- Is 2 or 2.1 channels.

I've left out what I think I know about sound systems to avoid contaminating preferences with my ignorance.

 

[fuzz092888]

Here's the deal. Odds are we can find you an adequate, to great system that fulfills all of your needs..............but we need a budget. Once we have a budget, even if it's a soft budget, we have somewhere to start. Do you only need speakers/subwoofer or do you need a receiver or some other way to deliver sound/power to the speakers/sub?

 

[macddmac]

Have you tried an outboard dac? Perhaps the computer's sound card is a pos.. (very common) not sure if the hiss during cd playback is something you can live though.
Cheers, Mac

 

[ImcLoud]

You can get a good deal on this system...
http://carnegieacoustics.net/image/products/big/csb1.jpg $399
https://www.svsound.com/outlet-specials?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=256&category_id=5#.Ukv8PIaURD0 $449
and then pick a receiver, you can go as cheap as $90 on a stereo receiver, to a separate dac and amplifier....

 

[EchoLynx]

Reply to fuzz092888, macddmac, and ImcLoud

fuzz092888

Here's the deal. Odds are we can find you an adequate, to great system that fulfills all of your needs..............but we need a budget. Once we have a budget, even if it's a soft budget, we have somewhere to start. Do you only need speakers/subwoofer or do you need a receiver or some other way to deliver sound/power to the speakers/sub?

A couple of classes I've taken are making me hesitate to give a price range. Microeconomics taught me about why colleges want to know how much a family makes; they want to make the price as high as they can, but still let the family afford to send their child. I see a startling parallel in the audiophile equipment market.

Furthermore, my electronics experience has me confused and skeptical about the prices of audio equipment. Most speaker manufacturers advertise their quality engineering work, but don't explain why its so good. I would have thought this information is all that could have sold speakers on the Internet, where auditioning involves shipping and returning. Things like sensitivity and frequency response abound, but as I understand it, the cabinet design is just as important, if not more. Other than basic dimensions, practically nothing is advertised about the cabinet. (At least, as far as I've seen.)

If I gave a price, I expect people would use that to shop online, compare numbers, and spend as much of the money as possible. It may produce a setup that satisfies my wants, but it may not be the most efficient use of the money, and the fact that it satisfies my wants may be partly rooted in chance. I don't like throwing money at problems to make them go away. I don't have that much, and this a problem that I would like to learn how to solve.
--
I do not have a receiver. I'm starting from scratch.
--

macddmac

Have you tried an outboard dac? Perhaps the computer's sound card is a pos.. (very common) not sure if the hiss during cd playback is something you can live though.
Cheers, Mac

I have not tried an outboard DAC. This onboard card doesn't have a Toslink port, so I would need to get a different sound card for that anyway. What makes you recommend an outboard DAC? Would a new soundcard do the same? What is the hiss, and how can I make sure that what I get wont produce it?
--

ImcLoud

You can get a good deal on this system...
http://carnegieacoustics.net/image/p...s/big/csb1.jpg $399
https://www.svsound.com/outlet-speci...5#.Ukv8PIaURD0 $449
and then pick a receiver, you can go as cheap as $90 on a stereo receiver, to a separate dac and amplifier..

The first link is broken. What makes you pick this system? What's the advantage of separating the DAC, amplifier, and receiver? How do these speakers sound? Do they have what I want?
--

Thank you, everyone, for your responses. I very much appreciate them.

 

[markw]

OK, enough obfuscation. What do you want to spend?

 

[ImcLoud]

Link is working for me, the are carnegie csb1's

When I buy a system, I go for the best value, sure a pair of sonus bookshelfs at $25K with a pair of JL audio subs at $20K and a mcintosch pre and pair of mono blocks will probably sound really good, but at $80K its unrealistic for most people... So I find speakers that perform well beyond their price range and will do what I want them to do... When you talk about an "audiophile" system, it can range from a hundred dollars to hundreds of thousands {hence why this is all just babble until we know what you want to spend}...

Anyway the csb1's are on sale rite now for $399, this is a bookshelf speaker that performs well for its original price of almost $900, so at $400 it an easy decision, I own a pair, they are warm, defined, and very accurate...
Now crossing the lows out to a subwoofer will do a few things, 1 it will concentrate your amplifiers power to reproducing the mids and highs through your bookshelfs, this will give you more dynamic range, since your lows use a lot of power. 2 most bookshelfs are thin in the low end, because of the small enclosure, small drivers, ect {but you get less cabinet resonance and a tighter sound from bookshelfs vs towers or larger speakers}, 3 you will get a ton of low range output out of a decent subwoofer, and if you get a small sealed unit that is fast and tight the bass will remain musical and melt into what your bookshelfs are producing much better....
So a good deal on a small, fast, sealed musical , subwoofer is that svs unit for $450 {already a bargain at $500 so 450 is even better}....

Now for a receiver, I like to keep my music systems as direct as possible, depending on your inputs, a dac with a separate amp will normally give you more power, and better digital to analog conversions, if done rite... A receiver will work for less money, you may or may not hear a difference...

Here is one more thought, you can n ot just buy what someone says to buy, what sounds good to me may sound terrible to you. I like warm, neutral, flat sounding speakers with a LOT of bass, I don't like bright highs, that some others enjoy because they sometimes make a system sound very clear... You may like what we don't or vs versa... You need to demo and listen for yourself and buy what you like.. Use our recommendations as a starting point, but that's all it is...

 

[fuzz092888]

A couple of classes I've taken are making me hesitate to give a price range. Microeconomics taught me about why colleges want to know how much a family makes; they want to make the price as high as they can, but still let the family afford to send their child. I see a startling parallel in the audiophile equipment market.

Yes, but you're not stopping the parallel there. You're continuing the parallel to a situation in which the party in question (this forum) has nothing to gain and no reason not to maximize what you get for your money spent. Your example would only be valid if you were asking a salesman the same question.

Furthermore, my electronics experience has me confused and skeptical about the prices of audio equipment. Most speaker manufacturers advertise their quality engineering work, but don't explain why its so good. I would have thought this information is all that could have sold speakers on the Internet, where auditioning involves shipping and returning. Things like sensitivity and frequency response abound, but as I understand it, the cabinet design is just as important, if not more. Other than basic dimensions, practically nothing is advertised about the cabinet. (At least, as far as I've seen.)

Furthermore, you should do a little research on your own and give some examples of what you're interested in if you're not going to give a price range and then ask why the product is good or not good.

If I gave a price, I expect people would use that to shop online, compare numbers, and spend as much of the money as possible. It may produce a setup that satisfies my wants, but it may not be the most efficient use of the money, and the fact that it satisfies my wants may be partly rooted in chance. I don't like throwing money at problems to make them go away. I don't have that much, and this a problem that I would like to learn how to solve.

Haven't been around here very much have?

I do not have a receiver. I'm starting from scratch.

Roger that.

I have not tried an outboard DAC. This onboard card doesn't have a Toslink port, so I would need to get a different sound card for that anyway. What makes you recommend an outboard DAC? Would a new soundcard do the same? What is the hiss, and how can I make sure that what I get wont produce it?

As long as you have a USB port open you can hook up most DAC's to it. Adding a USB DAC more or less skips your sound card. The hiss is most likely from a poor sound card or from poor quality recordings, but possibly both.

The first link is broken. What makes you pick this system? What's the advantage of separating the DAC, amplifier, and receiver? How do these speakers sound? Do they have what I want?

Personally I wouldn't. Almost all receivers these days have DAC's that are competent to well below audibility. The only downside is that if your soundcard doesn't have RCA out's then you'll need to use the headphone jack and get a headphone to L/R adapter cord in order to route sound to the receiver. I usually recommend receivers to people starting from scratch because there is a lot more flexibility and room to grow with your system needs/wants than buying separates right off the bat. Plus they have a built in amplifier section, all for cheaper than separates.

 

[jcl]

If you're in a dorm room then chances are you are going to be moving them at least twice a year. In addition you will most likely have room mates who may not be as careful with your stereo as you. I.e. over-indulging in "Old Make Me Walk Funny" and seeing if it goes to eleven. So I would suggest not spending much on your system just yet.

The Andrew Jones designed Pioneers, both bookshelves and towers, are a terrific value.

Pair them with an inexpensive receiver that includes pc connectivity to play music from your computer without going through a stock soundcard.

Maybe a refurb Onkyo 8050 for $199 - https://www.shoponkyo.com/detail.cfm?productid=TX-8050&modelid=19&group_id=1&detail=1&ext_war=1

Or perhaps a refurb Denon 1613 - DENON AVR-1613 5.1ch Networking Receiver w/AirPlay 3D ready | Accessories4less

I would skip the sub for now as they tend to cause problems with neighbors in small apartments and dorm rooms.

To treat yourself to the high end I'd get a good set of headphones.

 

[fuzz092888]

Since there's no budget

Vapor Joule White

Vapor : Exquisite Audio Reproduction

Selah Tempesta

Tempesta

Salk Soundscape M7 Monitor

SoundScape M7 Monitor

Philharmonic Philharmonitor

Philharmonic Audio

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum!

A couple of classes I've taken are making me hesitate to give a price range. Microeconomics taught me about why colleges want to know how much a family makes; they want to make the price as high as they can, but still let the family afford to send their child. I see a startling parallel in the audiophile equipment market.

If I gave a price, I expect people would use that to shop online, compare numbers, and spend as much of the money as possible.

Fair - but you should also expect that when you ask complete strangers that hang out here and help others to be nice to provide an infinite number of solutions, that they might decide it isn't worth giving any. We aren't trying to sell you equipment, so the whole supply/demand economics logic doesn't really weigh in here. Sure, some people will shoot for the best solution at the max stated budget, but not everyone. A lot of folks here are money-conscious, and we look for what we think are good deals. Look at it from our perspective - we have zero idea of what you consider to be "good" or "adequate" or "mind-blowingly awesome" when it comes to sound.

There are some Pioneer speakers here that have been very favorably reviewed for their performance given the price (~$100/speaker), both by professional reviewers and members here (members that I've grown to trust their opinions). There are also some exceptionally good speakers in the $2000-$10000 range, which I'll hazard a guess beat the Pioneers. I own NHT 1.5 bookshelf speakers that I'm really happy with. I bought my original set new in 1998 for $600/pair, and I bought a pair last year off of eBay for ~$180 shipped. Great speakers, IMO - but that's just my opinion. They best thing to do is audition speakers yourself, and there are internet-direct companies that will let you audition with no risk - free shipping to/from with no restocking fee.

As for electronics, you may find that a surround receiver is the best option if you want to go 2.1 just because most stereo receivers don't have bass management.

In regards to your sources, you have identified a weak link - the integrated sound on the computer. That stuff has gotten better, I'm sure, but I had hiss from my integrated sound years ago that went away when I got a dedicated sound card. The dedicated sound card not only eliminated the hiss, but it really made everything sound a lot better. So, definitely look at your sources. I'm not saying that you need a $2000 CD player , just that you should consider another PC source like Mac suggested.

 

[markw]

Hell, just get a Sherwood RX-4105 stereo receiver for $100 and a pair of speakers from some local dealer or craigalist that you can listen to first. If you can't justify $100 for a new receiver with a warranty then this is not the hobby for you. Odds are you're gonna spend a heckuva lot more before you finally get it right, an no forum can listen through your ears.

Tthat should get you statrted. ...and get over your flawed psychosis that everyone here is trying to relieve you of your money.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

I going to assume some things.

You want what you want for as little money as possible. (good)
Since you are in a dorm room space is an issue. (receivers are bulky)
Again, dorm rooms are small so you will not need much power.

First off you need to identify where the hiss is coming from. Low end sound cards can be noisy. It could be a bad cable. It could be a bad ground. Do yourself a favor and figure this out first. Don't go spending a bunch of money on equipment to find out that the hiss is still there. I would see if the sound card hisses buy plugging in some headphones to the same output that you are using to connect to the Panasonic. Also disconnect the computer form the Panasonic and see if the the hiss is there. Both could be making some noise.

Most systems have a sweet spot in volume that they just sound the best at no matter how expensive or inexpensive they are. Dynamic EQ/loudness option might be something you would be interested in.
Dynamic EQ | Audyssey

If it were me...I would make sure my computer operated quietly, get a good sound card and a pair of powered studio monitors. I would also make sure I could run a sub with this system just in case I wanted/needed to add one later. Then I would use the computer as the source for everything. I would also have a nice pair of isolating headphones.
Active Monitors | Sweetwater.com
Sennheiser HD 280 Pro - Full Size Headphones | HeadRoom Audio
Etymotic MC5 headphones | HeadRoom Audio

For studio monitors you need to go to a music store with a selection of them and take a listen. Talk to the salesperson and ask what his recommendation would be for your listening area. (make sure this person is experienced with studio equipment.)

One more thing...Dorms are usually have masonry walls. Experimenting with acoustic treatments could prove to be your best time spent. Just to see what happens use a thick blankets/comforters to experiment with. if you like what you hear then you can buy nice ones. (or DIY...some can, some can't)
Auralex Acoustics - World-Class acoustic foam sound control products at real-world prices!
Acoustic Panels | Bass Traps | Diffusors | GIK Acoustics

 

[slipperybidness]

Hell, just get a Sherwood RX-4105 stereo receiver for $100 and a pair of speakers from some local dealer or craigalist that you can listen to first. If you can't justify $100 for a new receiver with a warranty then this is not the hobby for you. Odds are you're gonna spend a heckuva lot more before you finally get it right, an no forum can listen through your ears.

Tthat should get you statrted. ...and get over your flawed psychosis that everyone here is trying to relieve you of your money.

Haha, yup. Might as well start looking for some white van speakers too

 

[markw]

Haha, yup. Might as well start looking for some white van speakers too

A lot of what a newbie believes deals with image and hype, not their personal experience. Nobody knows how much "stereo" one needs until they have a point of reference to begin with, and posing vague questions on a forum isn't the way to get that.

I've recommended that receiver to three people and bought one for my son, and they do a durn nice job. If anything, they're too good for a starter system and, for most people, more than they'll ever need. They won't impress audiogeeks by looking at the name or price but when one gets down to simply listening to the music, well...

 

[slipperybidness]

I've recommended that receiver to three people and bought one for my son, and they do a durn nice job. If anything, they're too good for a starter system and, for most people, more than they'll ever need. They won't impress audiogeeks by looking at the name or price but when one gets down to simply listening to the music, well...

I wasn't knocking the receiver, but knocking the OP for his refusal to cooperate on a budget.

 

[markw]

I wasn't knocking the receiver, but knocking the OP for his refusal to cooperate on a budget.

Not a problem. I was just clarifying what I said. In fact, I clarified it a bit more. Odds arethat he's gonna spend big bucks to satisfy what he believe he knows.

One thing I've learned over the years: One has to spend a lot of money only to eventualy learn that they didn't have to spend that much in the first place. The internet can be a valuable resourse if one knows enough to separate the wheat from the chaff.

and, I really respect that little receiver.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I'm surprised that we haven't heard any recommendations for a active loudspeaker at all.

1. When you say you listen to CDs, do you do so through the CD player on your computer, or by hooking up an external CD player to the speakers? My feeling is that you are running everything through your PC, so I would first try to isolate the noise issue by trying different sources as well as using a better 3.5mm stereo audio cable. Poorly built (not to be confused with inexpensive) audio cables certainly introduce noise, and the same is true with audio sound cards, so you really do want to try different sources and make sure you have a really good audio cable in place so you can actually place blame on the speakers.

2. I hear a lot of recommendations for Behrenger speakers. They eliminate the need for a receiver which saves space and they offer both larger loudspeakers as well as near-field listening options. Just surprised I haven't seen that recommendation yet, and would expect there are one or two similar active loudspeaker options which would make a lot of sense for the dorm life.

3. What type of music are you listening to?

4. What is your f'n budget. Don't make excuses, it's stupid and naïve. Set a minimum budget and tell others what it is. You've given minimal expectations as it is, but really that's it. You are getting a lot of responses, but none which mean anything at all. You don't buy a car without a budget, you don't buy a house without a budget. This isn't buying a cell phone or a car though... You want it to sound great at low and high volumes? We can give you suggestions from a few hundred dollars to several tends of thousands of dollars ALL of which are solid recommendations. But what's the point if you only have $50 to spend? Then we have to focus on Craigslist and eBay or some really special sales elsewhere. If you talk to any sales guy and he oversells you, then talk to a different sales guy. I specialized in value engineering for maximum quality for years. A budget is given, then I found a system which would work within 10% of that budget if at all possible.

Make your budget, have 10% overhead in that budget, then openly discuss it.

Much like salaries in a company, people dance around how much they and others earn or have to spend like it is wrong to discuss. Instead, you should be open about the discussion, look for values, consider worth, look for the best deals, and maximize the quality you get within the range of an established budget.

No top value $50 system will outperform a top value $500 system. Likewise, that $500 system will never outperform a top value $2,500 system. Since this website is dedicated to trying to focus and recommend top value systems, then you have to say which category you want to be in, because there is ALWAYS a better category you could fall into.

 

[fuzz092888]

I'm all for active speakers and I would have recommended some if I had a budget to work with....

I'm surprised that we haven't heard any recommendations for a active loudspeaker at all.

1. When you say you listen to CDs, do you do so through the CD player on your computer, or by hooking up an external CD player to the speakers? My feeling is that you are running everything through your PC, so I would first try to isolate the noise issue by trying different sources as well as using a better 3.5mm stereo audio cable. Poorly built (not to be confused with inexpensive) audio cables certainly introduce noise, and the same is true with audio sound cards, so you really do want to try different sources and make sure you have a really good audio cable in place so you can actually place blame on the speakers.

2. I hear a lot of recommendations for Behrenger speakers. They eliminate the need for a receiver which saves space and they offer both larger loudspeakers as well as near-field listening options. Just surprised I haven't seen that recommendation yet, and would expect there are one or two similar active loudspeaker options which would make a lot of sense for the dorm life.

3. What type of music are you listening to?

4. What is your f'n budget. Don't make excuses, it's stupid and naïve. Set a minimum budget and tell others what it is. You've given minimal expectations as it is, but really that's it. You are getting a lot of responses, but none which mean anything at all. You don't buy a car without a budget, you don't buy a house without a budget. This isn't buying a cell phone or a car though... You want it to sound great at low and high volumes? We can give you suggestions from a few hundred dollars to several tends of thousands of dollars ALL of which are solid recommendations. But what's the point if you only have $50 to spend? Then we have to focus on Craigslist and eBay or some really special sales elsewhere. If you talk to any sales guy and he oversells you, then talk to a different sales guy. I specialized in value engineering for maximum quality for years. A budget is given, then I found a system which would work within 10% of that budget if at all possible.

Make your budget, have 10% overhead in that budget, then openly discuss it.

Much like salaries in a company, people dance around how much they and others earn or have to spend like it is wrong to discuss. Instead, you should be open about the discussion, look for values, consider worth, look for the best deals, and maximize the quality you get within the range of an established budget.

No top value $50 system will outperform a top value $500 system. Likewise, that $500 system will never outperform a top value $2,500 system. Since this website is dedicated to trying to focus and recommend top value systems, then you have to say which category you want to be in, because there is ALWAYS a better category you could fall into.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

I'm surprised that we haven't heard any recommendations for a active loudspeaker at all.

1. When you say you listen to CDs, do you do so through the CD player on your computer, or by hooking up an external CD player to the speakers? My feeling is that you are running everything through your PC, so I would first try to isolate the noise issue by trying different sources as well as using a better 3.5mm stereo audio cable. Poorly built (not to be confused with inexpensive) audio cables certainly introduce noise, and the same is true with audio sound cards, so you really do want to try different sources and make sure you have a really good audio cable in place so you can actually place blame on the speakers.

2. I hear a lot of recommendations for Behrenger speakers. They eliminate the need for a receiver which saves space and they offer both larger loudspeakers as well as near-field listening options. Just surprised I haven't seen that recommendation yet, and would expect there are one or two similar active loudspeaker options which would make a lot of sense for the dorm life.

3. What type of music are you listening to?

4. What is your f'n budget. Don't make excuses, it's stupid and naïve. Set a minimum budget and tell others what it is. You've given minimal expectations as it is, but really that's it. You are getting a lot of responses, but none which mean anything at all. You don't buy a car without a budget, you don't buy a house without a budget. This isn't buying a cell phone or a car though... You want it to sound great at low and high volumes? We can give you suggestions from a few hundred dollars to several tends of thousands of dollars ALL of which are solid recommendations. But what's the point if you only have $50 to spend? Then we have to focus on Craigslist and eBay or some really special sales elsewhere. If you talk to any sales guy and he oversells you, then talk to a different sales guy. I specialized in value engineering for maximum quality for years. A budget is given, then I found a system which would work within 10% of that budget if at all possible.

Make your budget, have 10% overhead in that budget, then openly discuss it.

Much like salaries in a company, people dance around how much they and others earn or have to spend like it is wrong to discuss. Instead, you should be open about the discussion, look for values, consider worth, look for the best deals, and maximize the quality you get within the range of an established budget.

No top value $50 system will outperform a top value $500 system. Likewise, that $500 system will never outperform a top value $2,500 system. Since this website is dedicated to trying to focus and recommend top value systems, then you have to say which category you want to be in, because there is ALWAYS a better category you could fall into.

I going to assume some things.

You want what you want for as little money as possible. (good)
Since you are in a dorm room space is an issue. (receivers are bulky)
Again, dorm rooms are small so you will not need much power.

First off you need to identify where the hiss is coming from. Low end sound cards can be noisy. It could be a bad cable. It could be a bad ground. Do yourself a favor and figure this out first. Don't go spending a bunch of money on equipment to find out that the hiss is still there. I would see if the sound card hisses buy plugging in some headphones to the same output that you are using to connect to the Panasonic. Also disconnect the computer form the Panasonic and see if the the hiss is there. Both could be making some noise.

Most systems have a sweet spot in volume that they just sound the best at no matter how expensive or inexpensive they are. Dynamic EQ/loudness option might be something you would be interested in.
Dynamic EQ | Audyssey

If it were me...I would make sure my computer operated quietly, get a good sound card and a pair of powered studio monitors. I would also make sure I could run a sub with this system just in case I wanted/needed to add one later. Then I would use the computer as the source for everything. I would also have a nice pair of isolating headphones.
Active Monitors | Sweetwater.com
Sennheiser HD 280 Pro - Full Size Headphones | HeadRoom Audio
Etymotic MC5 headphones | HeadRoom Audio

For studio monitors you need to go to a music store with a selection of them and take a listen. Talk to the salesperson and ask what his recommendation would be for your listening area. (make sure this person is experienced with studio equipment.)

One more thing...Dorms are usually have masonry walls. Experimenting with acoustic treatments could prove to be your best time spent. Just to see what happens use a thick blankets/comforters to experiment with. if you like what you hear then you can buy nice ones. (or DIY...some can, some can't)
Auralex Acoustics - World-Class acoustic foam sound control products at real-world prices!
Acoustic Panels | Bass Traps | Diffusors | GIK Acoustics

I don't do much around here but give me some credit...



Agreed, powered speakers just make so much sense in a dorm room with a computer as a source.