Outlaw rr2150 or Yamaha rs 700 for music only

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Stability and strength- my experience aside- avr's break especially when pushed, its common sense the more circuitry the more chance something is going to fail, plus the amp sections they jam into them things aren't normally sub 4 ohm stable if even 4 ohm unless you spend big dollars...

4 ohms?

A $200 Sony AVR (street prices lower) can output 160 watts x 2CH into 4 ohms!

Power Output @ 1% THD 2CH 8 ohms/ 2CH 4 ohms (same standards as for ext power amps measurements):

$500 HK 1700: 108.9/196.3
$580 Denon 1913: 117.7/151.1
$550 Yamaha 573: 111.4/126.2
$500 Sony 1030: 134.7/167.7
$450 Yamaha 473: 96.5/143.2
$450 Pioneer VSX42: 118.2/157.8
$350 Denon 1612: 118.5/141.5
$330 Pioneer 821: 110.3/150.7
$230 Sony 520: 141.7/160.6

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't mix music and HT, I have separate systems for each...

Why not?

It's like me saying don't mix music and music because I have a different set of speakers and amps and preamps for each type of music.

Good speakers and AVR/pre-pro/preamp will sound good for both movies and music. They are not prejudice. They love all kinds of good sound - music and movies.

If you have extra sets of speakers and electronics and rooms, then it might be fun to utilize them. But it's not necessary.

 

[ImcLoud]

Why not?.

I just listed all the reasons, lol, you don't want to sit through that again do you, lol...

I agree, you can get an avr to sound fine, but I prefer a separate system... I HATE shuffling around and changing settings to listen to music, plus I could NEVER get time in the HT to listen to music, that would take an act of god between my wife and kids, that room is siempre ocupado ....

You can not argue- that you prefer to go into your HT and listen to music vs a designated area with a designated system? Come on'.... Walk in my front parlor {no tv in there}, hit 1 button and music is playing!!!!!! vs go to ht, turn on the avr turn off the tv, switch it to music pure direct mode turn on your audio device, or what ever.... I like my way... And it sounds very good. Try A B comparison of a simple integrated amp like the topping tp60 and any mid level AVR ($400ish), I have done this and prefer the integrated amp for music... Now with movies its obviously not that simple, you need whatever dolby decoding and surround modes, and room correction, ect... music is easy, set the speakers in front of you left and right, and press play, adjust volume to suit and enjoy...


Now if space or budget are issues, sure use your avr for music why the heck not....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I just listed all the reasons, lol, you don't want to sit through that again do you, lol...

I agree, you can get an avr to sound fine, but I prefer a separate system... I HATE shuffling around and changing settings to listen to music, plus I could NEVER get time in the HT to listen to music, that would take an act of god between my wife and kids, that room is siempre ocupado ....

You can not argue- that you prefer to go into your HT and listen to music vs a designated area with a designated system? Come on'.... Walk in my front parlor {no tv in there}, hit 1 button and music is playing!!!!!! vs go to ht, turn on the avr turn off the tv, switch it to music pure direct mode turn on your audio device, or what ever.... I like my way... And it sounds very good. Try A B comparison of a simple integrated amp like the topping tp60 and any mid level AVR ($400ish), I have done this and prefer the integrated amp for music... Now with movies its obviously not that simple, you need whatever dolby decoding and surround modes, and room correction, ect... music is easy, set the speakers in front of you left and right, and press play, adjust volume to suit and enjoy...


Now if space or budget are issues, sure use your avr for music why the heck not....

Yeah, I have 2 separate systems, but both systems are for both music & movies.

One system is just for me, and the other system is for everyone else.

But I don't have to change any settings whatsoever going from music to movies & vice versa. It's automatic. If the source has DD or DTS, then the AVR automatically changes from Stereo to DD/ DTS. Otherwise, it stays on Stereo mode.

All trim levels are the same. Audyssey settings are the same. Everything is 100% automatic. I don't have to worry about anything.

What kind of settings would you have to change?

It's not about SQ or space/budget limitations. It may be about convenience or just personal style. Some AVR cost more than so-called "separates".

 

[ImcLoud]

A lot of avrs cost more than separates, lol.. we all prefer what we prefer... I find running an avr vs a simple dac/amp or preamp/amp or integrated amp much more complicated... And as far as simple direct path goes, I seen a booth at the new york show that showed an avr's so called direct path, which went through a quarter dozen switches just to make it "direct mode" lol, then more volume and balancing switches, it looked like an old video game map of where the audio went... Then the companies preamp which showed 1 volume switch made to what ever jibberish standards they invented, and only went to 2 other places...

There stuff sounded great, but it was a TAD too much money lol {did you get the pun} at $35K show price, I was like hmmmmmm 2013 camaro ss convertible or preamp?
But there is something to it, I have compared pre and amp setups vs avr's and found I and anyone with me preferred the pre / amp set...

PS- I thought direct mode bypassed room correction?????

 

[panteragstk]

I think this is pretty interesting. I've been toying with the idea of a separates system for my 2.1 rig. It will be used for TV and music with music being the emphasis. However, I'm looking at one of the SMSL DAC and an SMSL class T (tripath) amps so the combo is under $250. Seems like it will do what I want for the money.

 

[ImcLoud]

Pant, with TV I like things like HDMI inputs and room correction... With music I like direct untouched {or as little as possible} signal...

 

[3db]

A lot of avrs cost more than separates, lol.. we all prefer what we prefer... I find running an avr vs a simple dac/amp or preamp/amp or integrated amp much more complicated... And as far as simple direct path goes, I seen a booth at the new york show that showed an avr's so called direct path, which went through a quarter dozen switches just to make it "direct mode" lol, then more volume and balancing switches, it looked like an old video game map of where the audio went... Then the companies preamp which showed 1 volume switch made to what ever jibberish standards they invented, and only went to 2 other places...

There stuff sounded great, but it was a TAD too much money lol {did you get the pun} at $35K show price, I was like hmmmmmm 2013 camaro ss convertible or preamp?
But there is something to it, I have compared pre and amp setups vs avr's and found I and anyone with me preferred the pre / amp set...

PS- I thought direct mode bypassed room correction?????

Pure direct mode does turn off room eq modes and any dsp modes. I understand your want for keeping things simple and easy to use. Thats your personal preference and more power to you that it works for you.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It is simply personal preference.

I guess we believe what we want to believe.

No double-blinded study can change that.

And no measurement can change that.

If you believe in measurements, and you see that a cheap AVR measures as well as a high end separate, and you hear that they sound the same when level-matched, then you deduce that their sound quality is equal.

If you don't believe, then your argument is that measurements just don't mean anything or at least not enough.

So we believe what we believe.

I believe that all external DAC is 100% waste of time and money.

I believe that AVR that measure like separate will sound like separate in Direct mode.

 

[panteragstk]

Pant, with TV I like things like HDMI inputs and room correction... With music I like direct untouched {or as little as possible} signal...

Right there with you, but since I really only have one source I don't need all that much. If I go the receiver route (which I may) I'll grab a nice looking Marantz (WAF and all). I just figured I might be able to get by with a simple set up. I've wanted to try a DAC+amp for a while just to see, and since my source is a computer I figured it would work pretty well.

 

[ImcLoud]

I use my dac as a preamp, I bought it for $229 at an emo event, my amp was bstock also emo event for $559 so for under $800 I have 600 watts and a dac/preamp that does everything I ask it to, show me the avr that does that.. If you don't "Believe" a system with more power on tap sounds better than a system with less than I don't know what to say, because I can tell the difference between a struggling avr and a system with plenty to spare... I have a large room where my evo2's are with 20+' ceilings and open to most of the rest of the house, and I tried an avr on two occasions, I am confident they wouldn't last a month... and they just don't sound as good, I 'believe" that because its true lol...

As far as direct mode on an avr, its just a matter of preference.. Since the room correction is NOT in effect in direct mode, the only thing you are doing is trying to reproduce what a separate system would do automatically with no button, I seen the proof that separates are more direct than an avr so thats what makes me "believe" it, lol.... My point is, if you want DIRECT, and you are using it for music only, get separates, I listed a entire list of reasons on why it makes sense...
Im not trying to justify how I spent my money , because I have at least 4 avr's in my storage room that don't get used because I like the sound of my pre/ amp sets for music.. and I use an avr in my bedroom and in my HT because that is what they are made for, TV....... The rooms with no TV's get preamps and amps or a stereo receiver...

Kind of like buying a car with 30 seats when you will NEVER use more than 4 of them, you lug around this huge car, that wears out faster, is harder to drive, you will never be able to resell, and pay for all them seats when you only know 4 people... If the system is not going to be Audio video why get an audio video receiver? To me its not as hard a decision as we are making it, I buy shirts with 2 arms because shirts with 3 arms would look Silly....

 

[wilejoe]

That's kind of how I feel and why I went with those choices. It's debatable whether an AVR sounds as good music wise as a simple stereo setup but I'm never going to use most of those extras on a AVR so why pay for them???? And I don't have any luck buying anything used or demoed so I'll stick with new. Emotiva gets high praise from everyone so I'll give them a chance . Thanks for all the input

 

[panteragstk]

Well, the DAC+Amp combo will be my first separates setup, and for the price I'm very interested in how it will sound. Now I just need some speakers and I'm all set.

 

[gfmucci]

After over a year of this thread, I still didn't see a direct answer to the OP question: Which one, the Outlaw or the Yamaha? I'd still like to hear educated preferences between the two ONLY.

I'll throw in a twist: The Outlaw ($699) or the new Yamaha A-S801 ($899). The new Yamaha as I understand it is the 700 with a quality DAC/usb inputs. I am currently deliberating between these options to drive a pair of Definitive BP8040's. Again, music only, primarily from my desk top computer via either analog or digitally via USB., depending which sounds better. I don't want separates, would prefer a simple integrated amp, but the Outlaw is a close compromise for the money. I'm seeking clean accurate power over features - except I do want tone control knobs - consider me old school non-purist.

Side note: The treble control on the Outlaw, according to the manual and tech support, is centered at 1kHz, not 10 kHz as the review on this site indicates. Any thoughts on that?