Outlaw rr2150 or Yamaha rs 700 for music only

[wilejoe]

Hello everyone. I was looking to get the Yamaha rs700 stereo receiver until I read alot of good things about the outlaw rr 2150 receiver. Both are rated at 100 w.
I am using this receiver for music only. Ill be adding a nice pair of tower speakers to it when money allows. I don't plan on adding a subwoofer to the system. Is the quality and sound from the Outlaw enough to justify the $200 or so difference in price. Thanks

 

[ImcLoud]

The outlaw is very nice, I personally like separates or integrated amps for music systems, some people on here like the harmon 3490, I own a yamaha 700 its ok but I don't use it anymore, I just prefer the sound of mono blocks and separates...

What is your budget? And what are your sources going to be {turntable, cd player, ipod?}

I would personally go with a UPA-200 | 125W x 2 | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplifi and if you need analog inputs USP-1 Stereo Preamp | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplif or if you are going digital {cd player with digital output, i-device with digital dock, PC, ect} and you are not adding any analog inputs {turntable, cassette deck, ect} XDA-2 USB DAC/Digital Preamp/Headphone Amp | Emotiva Audio Corporation | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel instead of the usp-1... I say buy once cry once, another option is mono blocks, but then the cost goes up from there...



The other option and what keeps the signal path as direct and simple as possible is a simple integrated amplifier, these work well if you are just using one source, as in not going to have 2 cd players, and ipod, dock, and a turntable. Otherwise you need to add splitters for each additional device...

my favorite if you don't need a ton of power Amazon.com: Topping TP60 Tripath TA2022 50WPC (80WPC 4 Ohm) Mini Amplifier: Electronics or Amazon.com: Dayton Audio APA150 150-Watts Power Amplifier (Black): Electronics {or two of these, since they can be ran as mono blocks}...

PLus pioneer elite makes a nice unit, onkyo, marantz, grace, cambridge all make decent units.... Since this is going to be an over time build for you, take your time and pick the best equipment, seems like you are on the rite track and doing research I see a lot of people buy stuff then come and ask how to make it sound "good"


let us know budget, sources, and maybe listening levels and type of music....

 

[j_garcia]

They are both primarily analog, so using the same source, they will basically sound the same. I never planned on adding a sub either to my 2ch system, but when I wanted to, having that bass managed preamp sub out on the RR2150 would have been a huge benefit.

 

[wilejoe]

Budget is around $700 Wasn't looking to go the separate component way but if it's going to sound better it's a possibility. Need a cd jack and a way to possibly get music straight from computer in future. I have a lot of grateful Dead cds so HDCD is in the mix.

 

[ImcLoud]

So all digital? If you could stretch your budget another $50 to fit the XDA-2 $400 and the UPA-200, you will not regret it, I own both components and I would take them over both of the above... The dac has a volume control so it can be used as a preamp {that's how I use it in my 2.2 system} and it blows away any avr or stereo receiver... Plus you get the 4ohm stable and the extra 25 watts {some receivers are also 4 ohm}, and the other nice thing is the upgradability, if you ever want more power you can just add a larger amplifier and the resale value of the emotiva stuff is awesome...

You will hook your cd player in with either an optical cable or single digital rca type, and for the pc you can not get better than bypassing your internal dac and hooking in with a USB which the xda2 allows....

Also if you call them you can save a lot by getting bstock, which Ill bet they have both of them items in....

here is my xda2 with the larger xpa2 amplifier, a pure i20 dock, power strip, and some custom made stands {before I installed the spikes on the stands, now it has spikes on the bottom and between the 2 pieces and the power strip is ontop of the amp and there is glass over the dac, this pic is old, also I normally use the ipad on that dock}...

 

[wilejoe]

Thanks that sounds like a definite possibility. Have to save up, maybe a Christmas present I hear they are coming out with a new cd player pretty soon. That should solve my HDCD problem. Thanks for all the help so far. I want a decent system that I won't be sorry I didn't spend the extra $$$ for but I also don't want to go overboard . I'm looking at the Ascend Sierra Towers to finish off the system but they'll have to wait a while.

 

[ImcLoud]

That will be a phenominal system, the ascend towers are really nice. I had a chance to play with the cd player at the Boston Emotiva meet and greet , erc3, toshiba tray drive, and very good looking to...

 

[rnatalli]

I would go with the EMO setup myself. Tough to beat for the money.

 

[j_garcia]

Have to agree there, though it costs more than you originally intended, I think the Emo setup recommended would be a step up from what you were looking at. If you didn't need something as hefty as the XPA2, you could always go with the UPA-200.

I have the TP-60 recommended by ImcLoud (on his recommendation also lol) and I am pretty impressed with it.

 

[ImcLoud]

Have to agree there, though it costs more than you originally intended, I think the Emo setup recommended would be a step up from what you were looking at. If you didn't need something as hefty as the XPA2, you could always go with the UPA-200.

I have the TP-60 recommended by ImcLoud (on his recommendation also lol) and I am pretty impressed with it.

That's what I am here for J, to spend other peoples money...

 

[wilejoe]

So you think the Emotiva will sound a lot better then than the outlaw The only thing I like best about the receiver is that it has a A/B speaker switch. I have a second set of speakers in the basement but I guess I could just fire them up with the old Sony receiver. What sort of cables do I use between the DAc and the amp ? Thanks once again for any input.

 

[ImcLoud]

I think the Dac and separate amp will sound better, now "a lot" better is going to be hard to say I don't know what you consider a lot, some people think a $10000 stereo sounds a little better than a $200 boombox... So it is a tough call.. IMO it sounds good enough to warrant the price difference..

To connect the dac to the amplifier you need a simple set of rca interconnects.. 2 of these .5 m will work but they are expensive... X Series RCA | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplifiers, a these are cheaper I dont think you will notice a sound difference between the two... RCA Cable | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplifiers, as w

As far as AB goes, Im not sure what to say, I would never have the use for it I would buy a 2020 before running wires to a b channel.. Amazon.com: 2013 New Version!! Upgraded LP-2020A+ Lepai Tripath Class-T Hi-Fi Audio Mini Amplifier with US Power Supply Black, US Shipping!!!: Electronics

 

[wilejoe]

I guess I shouldn't have said a lot better. If I get a cleaner better sound that's enough for me. $50 isn't going to make or break my decision. I'll probably go with the Emotiva setup you recommended. UPA 200 and XDA 2. They said there will be a sale towards the end of the year so Christmas present it is. And my $159 5 disc sony cd changer has a optical digital output so it will probably sound better run through the DAC Thanks once again

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would just call Electronics Expo and try to get a demo Denon 3313 for $491. Ask them to give free shipping.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So you think the Emotiva will sound a lot better then than the outlaw..

Hells no. I think in Direct/ Pure Direct mode, they will sound EXACTLY the same given the same EXACT volume.

But some EQs may make a difference.

For example, Denon Audyssey Dynamic EQ (+/- Audyssey Flat mode) did wonders for my room.

So I think room & sub EQ may be a huge factor.

And my personal take (everyone has a different opinion) is that DAC won't make any difference because an AVR like the Denon 3313 or similar will have awesome DAC. I wouldn't spend a dime on DAC, but that's my opinion. If someone gave me a $10,000 DAC, I still wouldn't use it. I would sell it.

 

[wilejoe]

I would just call Electronics Expo and try to get a demo Denon 3313 for $491. Ask them to give free shipping.

Thanks I looked at that unit . Denon says it's discontinued and replaced with another unit which means that I might get a good deal on one. It does look like a bit of overkill, I'm only looking to drive 2 speakers and play music. I'm not looking to do any surround sound tv in the future strictly music. I just want something to upgrade from what I have and not have to worry about upgrading in the future. I have a $150 Sony 100w receiver, $150 5 disc Sony cd changer and a set of the dreaded Bose acoustimass 5 cube speakers . So anything I get should sound a whole lot better. Like I previously stated I'm shooting for a pair of Ascend Sierra Towers to play throughout my house, not just to be in a designated listening room. I do realize this is far from optimum conditions but this is what I'm looking for. I like to play my music while I putter about the house doing what needs to be done. Thanks for all the help so far

 

[ImcLoud]

Some people prefer an avr for their music only system, to me {setting the performance positives aside} just the basic stuff like...

aesthetics {I like the looks of stacked separate components},

simplicity{try to navigate around an avr's remote quickly lol, my dacs remote has 12 buttons most avrs will have 70+ which will have multiple functions and then multiple menus, that most need a tv screen to navigate...},

Longevity- you won't be needing to upgrade your 2ch rig for a long time, my father still uses one he bought in the 70's...

Stability and strength- my experience aside- avr's break especially when pushed, its common sense the more circuitry the more chance something is going to fail, plus the amp sections they jam into them things aren't normally sub 4 ohm stable if even 4 ohm unless you spend big dollars...

replacement- If you buy an $800 avr and the processor gets outdated or cooks you need an entire new unit, if you buy separates and you spill a coffee in your preamp {or dump a flower vase full of water into it, I've done it, actually unplugged it and put it in a ziplock bag with an eva dry and it still works} you just buy a new preamp, and chances are you can sell your water soaked one on ebay for a few bucks even broken...

Resale value-Try and sell a 5 year old AVR for 20% of what you paid vs selling a Preamp/amp set from 5 years ago will most likely get you 75% of your Investment back...

So I am sure I can come up with more, and AVRs have their place, they are the way to go with HT for sure, but music only IMO should be done with either a stereo receiver or pre and amps {ideally mono blocks}.. Sure avrs can have amps added to them, and you can use it with a tv later if you wanted to, but for music only, why bother...

As for the not likeing dac's, when used as a preamp I love them, I can tell the difference between the dac in my xda2 and the dac in my yamaha avr, its like night and day, and actual easy to distinguish which is better difference and that avr isn't a cheap model...

I don't mix music and HT, I have separate systems for each, if its not in your budget and you need 1 system that does it all, or thats the way you want it that is fine too and will make sound, but there is something simple and clean of a nice 2.2 system... or even simpler a 2.2, but I like a lot of bass, and since most towers are using an average driver in the 6.5" range, abundant low end is a thing of the past...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks I looked at that unit . Denon says it's discontinued and replaced with another unit which means that I might get a good deal on one. It does look like a bit of overkill, I'm only looking to drive 2 speakers and play music. I'm not looking to do any surround sound tv in the future strictly music. I just want something to upgrade from what I have and not have to worry about upgrading in the future. I have a $150 Sony 100w receiver, $150 5 disc Sony cd changer and a set of the dreaded Bose acoustimass 5 cube speakers . So anything I get should sound a whole lot better. Like I previously stated I'm shooting for a pair of Ascend Sierra Towers to play throughout my house, not just to be in a designated listening room. I do realize this is far from optimum conditions but this is what I'm looking for. I like to play my music while I putter about the house doing what needs to be done. Thanks for all the help so far

The 3313 (MSRP $1200) is replaced by the X4000, which is $1300 MSRP.

Overkill is good as long as the price is right. How much money were you spending anyway? The Outlaw is $700. The Yamaha is $500.

For 2Ch, the 3313 can output 143WPC 8 ohms & 225 WPC 4 ohms.

Just because it is an AVR does not mean you have to use 7Ch. And it measures just as well as many separates and sounds as good.

You want an analog piece that never becomes outdated? Just use Pure Direct mode, which turns the Denon into an analog piece that never becomes outdated. In the mean time, enjoy Audyssey XT Dynamic EQ, which your subs will appreciate and thank you dearly.

I used to be a pure class A analog guy. Not anymore.

 

[woodforth]

Yeah,it will be a phenominal system, the ascend towers are really nice. I also thikn that the dac has a volume control so it can be used as a preamp

and it blows away any avr or stereo receiver.

 

[3db]

Some people prefer an avr for their music only system, to me {setting the performance positives aside} just the basic stuff like...

aesthetics {I like the looks of stacked separate components},

simplicity{try to navigate around an avr's remote quickly lol, my dacs remote has 12 buttons most avrs will have 70+ which will have multiple functions and then multiple menus, that most need a tv screen to navigate...},

Longevity- you won't be needing to upgrade your 2ch rig for a long time, my father still uses one he bought in the 70's...

Stability and strength- my experience aside- avr's break especially when pushed, its common sense the more circuitry the more chance something is going to fail, plus the amp sections they jam into them things aren't normally sub 4 ohm stable if even 4 ohm unless you spend big dollars...

replacement- If you buy an $800 avr and the processor gets outdated or cooks you need an entire new unit, if you buy separates and you spill a coffee in your preamp {or dump a flower vase full of water into it, I've done it, actually unplugged it and put it in a ziplock bag with an eva dry and it still works} you just buy a new preamp, and chances are you can sell your water soaked one on ebay for a few bucks even broken...

Resale value-Try and sell a 5 year old AVR for 20% of what you paid vs selling a Preamp/amp set from 5 years ago will most likely get you 75% of your Investment back...

So I am sure I can come up with more, and AVRs have their place, they are the way to go with HT for sure, but music only IMO should be done with either a stereo receiver or pre and amps {ideally mono blocks}.. Sure avrs can have amps added to them, and you can use it with a tv later if you wanted to, but for music only, why bother...

As for the not likeing dac's, when used as a preamp I love them, I can tell the difference between the dac in my xda2 and the dac in my yamaha avr, its like night and day, and actual easy to distinguish which is better difference and that avr isn't a cheap model...

I don't mix music and HT, I have separate systems for each, if its not in your budget and you need 1 system that does it all, or thats the way you want it that is fine too and will make sound, but there is something simple and clean of a nice 2.2 system... or even simpler a 2.2, but I like a lot of bass, and since most towers are using an average driver in the 6.5" range, abundant low end is a thing of the past...

Its clear that you have a preference for separates and that's your choice. Just don't back your preferences up with invalid points:

Longevity- you won't be needing to upgrade your 2ch rig for a long time, my father still uses one he bought in the 70's...

Stability and strength- my experience aside- avr's break especially when pushed, its common sense the more circuitry the more chance something is going to fail, plus the amp sections they jam into them things aren't normally sub 4 ohm stable if even 4 ohm unless you spend big dollars...

replacement- If you buy an $800 avr and the processor gets outdated or cooks you need an entire new unit, if you buy separates and you spill a coffee in your preamp {or dump a flower vase full of water into it, I've done it, actually unplugged it and put it in a ziplock bag with an eva dry and it still works} you just buy a new preamp, and chances are you can sell your water soaked one on ebay for a few bucks even broken...

Take a poll around here to see how many still have working AVRS still being used that are 10yrs and up? Ponzio, Fuzz, PEng, myself are a few for starters. There a certain brands that are little problematic but the other brands are still working like the day they brought them home. That arguement just doesn't hold up.

4 ohms? Most mid to high end level AVRs can and will handle 4 ohms loads depending on room size, speaker senstivity and desired volume levels. Yes there are mitigating factors but simply stating that AVRs cannot handle 4 ohm loads is incorrect. My Yamaha and my Technics before it both have driven my entire suite of PSB speakers (which are closer to 4 ohms than the nominal 6 advertised) into the low 90s with out tripping protection circuitry or sounding harsh or brittle.

As for the not likeing dac's, when used as a preamp I love them, I can tell the difference between the dac in my xda2 and the dac in my yamaha avr, its like night and day, and actual easy to distinguish which is better difference and that avr isn't a cheap model...

Pre-amps on most of mid to high end AVRs have better specs than the boutique brands and perform better. I would like to see if you were able to tell teh difference in a SBT test. I bet it wouldnt be so obvious. Sight testing introduces all kinds of unconscious bias that the listener isn't even aware of.