PS4, or Xbox One for Blu-ray Playback?

T

TheStalker

Banned
Just want to see what you guys think will be the better Blu-ray player? Better drive? Video card? Load times? Features? Anything else?
 
G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
None of these questions can be answered until release....

If current generation consoles are any indication then the answer will be a clear neither based off noise and cumbersome control.
 
T

TheStalker

Banned
I don't know... I currently own the PS3 Slim and with the Sony Blu-ray remote the controls are flawless. I've tried the new Oppo at the store and the lag between remote command and actual response was so terrible that I find that unit insanely annoying.

The PS3 Slim has also been very quiet.
 
G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
The slim is quite quiet, I would not say "very" considering I can hear mine and cannot hear the average player.

I have a very nice universal remote which cannot be used with the ps3 since they decided to omit an IR sensor. Having a second remote is extremely cumbersome for me, and I just find their menus clumsy. Xbox360 menus are significantly worse (though at least i can control that with the universal remote).
 
Tyfighter

Tyfighter

Junior Audioholic
Considering Sony's behind Blu, already used Blu for the PS3, and are a hardware manufacturer I think they have the advantage in this field...but we can only answer this for sure when both machines actually release.

I know I will be doing a lot of tests.

As far as remotes, it's true Sony didn't use an IR port for the PS3 as they did with PS2. I even have a harmony. However, I do enjoy the Bluetooth Sony made Blu-Ray remote I bought separate so I don't have to point the remote at the console anymore.

I have noticed in both the Xbox and Xbox 360 (including the HD-DVD add on) after extensive home testing the gamma's were off and too high in DVD playback. I chalked that up to not being Microsoft's forte (Hardware and DVD/movies).
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
The slim is quite quiet, I would not say "very" considering I can hear mine and cannot hear the average player.

I have a very nice universal remote which cannot be used with the ps3 since they decided to omit an IR sensor. Having a second remote is extremely cumbersome for me, and I just find their menus clumsy. Xbox360 menus are significantly worse (though at least i can control that with the universal remote).
You gotta buy the remote with the IR dongle, then use the dongle and program the universal remote to work with it.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Considering Sony's behind Blu, already used Blu for the PS3, and are a hardware manufacturer I think they have the advantage in this field...but we can only answer this for sure when both machines actually release.
Panasonic is behind Blu-ray. They own the majority of the significant patents. Sony was the one who pushed the format.

The slim is quite quiet, I would not say "very" considering I can hear mine and cannot hear the average player.
Agreed, the Slim is quietER than the previous format PS3, but it is NOT quiet.
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
If you look at listed Spec's the blu ray drive and speed are essentially the same. I doubt very highly that you would notice a difference between the two.

- The basic CPU/GPU are essentially the same, with a speed bump on the PS4 (though for blu-rays, this should make no difference)
- The Xbox one has HDMI input & output designed integrate with your Cable box
- There will be Xbox Specific Overlays to cable TV menus and you can control your home theater through your Xbox One
- The Xbox one has the advantage of having the upgraded Kinect built in, which will give voice command functionality
- The PS4 does not have HDMI input and no information on if the Playstation Eye will provide this (additional purchase required)
- I have played both the Xbox one and PS4 at San Diego Comic Con. I had a dealer pass, so I got to see both up close.
- Both systems are quiet, with the xbox one being a little on the larger side
- Xbox One is Silent, I can not hear the Disc Spinning.
- Its my understanding that the PS4 uses Bluetooth so you will need an adapter for a universal remote
- I am not sure about the Xbox One

Other things to consider:
- Xbox One is Dual Band Wifi (2.4ghz & 5Ghz Bands)a/b/g/n w/WiFi Direct
- PS4 is listed as Wireless N (No other information is provided at this point as to if its dual band)

At the end of the day I am a huge nerd and will be getting both at launch, (pre-ordered both on June 10th) If I had to choose one to use as a blu ray player I definitely would choose the Xbox one as it has more functionality built into it to make it a part of your HT setup.

PS4 = More powerful game system
Xbox One is designed to do more than just play games
 
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Tyfighter

Tyfighter

Junior Audioholic
Panasonic is behind Blu-ray. They own the majority of the significant patents. Sony was the one who pushed the format.
It's true these companies are patent holders.
Panasonic is a major player yes, but there is more to it than I can summarize in even this post. I've had discussions that took many, many threads to detail the whole thing, but I will be brief in some information here with just three of what could be many links.

Respectfully:

"Link #1 Blu Ray Technology History – Who Created It?

The creation of the blue laser diode required for this technology is attributed to Shuji Nakamura, a professor in the College of Engineering at UCSB. Sony (along with Pioneer) took this work and came up with prototypes that were unveiled at the CEATEC exhibition in 2000. In 2002, Blu-ray Disc Founders was founded, and they announced the “˜Blu-ray’ project.
"

----

Different source with information after the technology was created (May 2002):

"Link #2: Tokyo Japan, May 20, 2002: Nine leading companies today announced that they will start disclosing specifications for a next generation large capacity optical disc video recording format "Blu-ray Disc" on June 14 2002 on the conditions listed below in accordance with their joint press conference of February 19, 2002. The companies that would start disclosing specifications for the Blu-ray Disc format are: Hitachi, Ltd., LG Electronics Inc., Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd., PIONEER CORPORATION, Royal Philips Electronics, SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD., SHARP CORPORATION, Sony Corporation, and THOMSON multimedia. The nine companies will be called "Blu-ray Disc Founders", and they will pursue a broad acceptance of the "Blu-ray Disc" format. "

So far, I haven't seen Panasonic in there. I know for a fact they are a patent holder, but when I said Sony was behind Blu, I meant one of the actual Blu-Ray founders...I should have been more clear. I actually engaged this topic quite a bit between 2004-2010.

Currently, here is who runs the board of directors for Blu-Ray (Panasonic and Sony are indeed both apart of the Board):

Board of Directors (Link #3)
Dolby Laboratories, Inc.
DTS, Inc.
Hitachi, Ltd.
Intel Corporation
Koninklijke Philips Electronics N.V.
LG Electronics Inc.
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
Oracle Corporation
Panasonic Corporation
Pioneer Corporation
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
TDK Corporation
Technicolor
Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment
The Walt Disney Studios
Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.


----
Ultimately my point was Microsoft isn't part of the Blu-Ray Board, they aren't really a dedicated hardware company (software is their forte), and whereas Sony has a long history as a hardware manufacturer, as well as being on the Blu-Ray board. If Panasonic or Samsung for instance were crafting the Xbox One and designing the Blu-Ray player, I would be singing a different tune.

Then, based on the inferior DVD playback (both in options, UI, and quality of image) of the Xbox and 360, if history is anything to go by, Microsoft has an uphill battle in meeting the Blu-Ray standards on their first try that companies like Panasonic, Samsung, and Sony have mastered at this point.

While I am here, I can say that I am not a fan of Kinect, I don't like Wii motion or Eyetoy, but I can see people willing to use a lower quality Blu-Ray player if they like waving at their TV instead of pushing buttons on a remote control. That's assuming the Xbox One's Blu-Ray will be lower quality, but to be fair as I said before we will have to wait to see the results. Recently, after a long string of Xbox One-80 reversals, I was pleased to see that Now it's confirmed that Kinect 2 on Xbox One can be disconnected. Originally, Kinect couldn't be disconnected, but that has changed only a few weeks ago. I can tell you that is what I will be doing with my Xbox One, disconnecting that blasted waving device. That spot is for my center channel anyways. I believe Microsoft is more invested in streaming technologies as it's more profitable to them and therefore microsoft won't put nearly as much effort in the Blu-Ray player as they could because fiscally it makes more sense to push Digital purchases and streaming on the Xbox platform...which coincidentally was their big idea before all the bad press, to go for a digital only eco system.

Long story short, my original post covered my short story version. :) Nice chat fellow Audio lover.
 
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G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
Why are we arguing about who is more bluray than other person's bluray? What does it matter if they all work [and they do all work].

Microsoft has been in the game console business for a long time now, I'm not really sure what the point of saying "software is their forte" is. Sony on the other hand has a long history of screwing software up. I have owned a few pieces of sony hardware that were RUINED by the terrible software. At the end of the day all parts have to come together.

Also, "lower quality bluray player"??? Sorry but that's just way out of left field. The "quality" of player of both units will probably be identical, and identical to standalone players.

You gotta buy the remote with the IR dongle, then use the dongle and program the universal remote to work with it.
I know I could do this, but it's still more cumbersome than not.
 
Tyfighter

Tyfighter

Junior Audioholic
Why are we arguing about who is more bluray than other person's bluray? What does it matter if they all work [and they do all work].
Respectfully, the name of the thread is "PS4, or Xbox One for Blu-ray Playback?". This is a speculation thread, so variables were coming out in a probably futile attempt to answer the question early. As far as I'm concerned, there is no arguing, this is simply an exchange of information in a thread about Blu-Ray Playback. We all should know that this can't be answered for sure until they release, but this is supposed to be fun, right? If someone posts something and you know more on the topic, it's okay to engage I would hope.

With regards to Blu-Ray functionality, they (Xbox One and PS4) most assuredly will be functional.

This was simply friendly speculation about which one would be superior in Blu-Ray playback. We took Blu-Ray experience into account (Sony makes players, Miscrosoft does not. Sony's PS3 had a fantastic Blu-Ray player in the 2006 PS3 when that released, etc), DVD playback into account (360, Xbox, PS2, and PS3), and Blu-Ray founders/backers into account (meaning Microsoft will probably be pushing streaming instead anyways and not worry too much about the Blu-Ray functionality).

I ended originally in my first post in this thread with: We won't know for sure which Blu-Ray playback, if either, will be superior until they are released. The point of the forum is to converse, which is what I thought we were doing until you asked about why there is "arguing", and why "Blu-ray" is being discussed in a Blu-ray Thread.

As far as the point of : "What does it matter if they all work [and they do all work]." If that were the case, forums like Audioholics wouldn't exist because we would all be fine with low-mid grade stereo equipment because "it doesn't matter, they work." There is a lot to be said about quality and performance, at least to some users. I hope you don't view this as arguing as I'm simply clarifying.

EDIT: I also typed far too much in this thread...au revoir mon ami.
 
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G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
Respectfully, the name of the thread is "PS4, or Xbox One for Blu-ray Playback?". This is a speculation thread, so variables were coming out. As far as I'm concerned, there is no arguing, this is simply an exchange of information in a thread about Blu-Ray Playback.

With regards to Blu-Ray functionality, they most assuredly will be functional. This was simply friendly speculation about which one would be superior in Blu-Ray playback. We took Blu-Ray experience into account (Sony makes players, Miscrosoft does not. Sony's PS3 had a fantastic Blu-Ray player when released, etc), DVD playback into account (360, Xbox, PS2, and PS3). I ended originally with: We won't know for sure which Blu-Ray playback, if either, will be superior until they are released, but the point of the forum is to converse, which is what I thought we were doing until you asked about why there is arguing, and why Blu-ray is being discussed in a Blu-ray Thread.

As far as the point of : "What does it matter if they all work [and they do all work]." If that were the case, forums like Audioholics wouldn't exist because we would all be fine with low grade stereo equipment because "it doesn't matter, they work." There is a lot to be said about quality and performance, at least to some users. I hope you don't view this as arguing as I'm simply clarifying what I saw.
I was being a touch poetic i didn't mean literally arguing. Though I stand by my point still, what is the use of throwing out who was most behind bluray? It doesn't lend anything to the speculation.

Stereo equipment is VERY different. Decoding digital and sending it out digital over HDMI [bluray player] is something that should be [and almost universally is] completely repeatable on all hardware.
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
I was hoping not to get into a MS vs Sony Next Generation war, LOL, obviously some people have ill feelings.

1. I doubt very highly that you will be able to notice a difference between Blu-ray players on either system,
2. As I stated earlier, the two systems are extremely similar with same Blu Ray Specs listed
2. EVERYONE is getting into more streaming services...even Blu-ray players themselves:p
3. Sony & MS rely on Streaming Services, Sony even having their own streaming movie service its on my 2 Sony TVs that I own

As for system of preference, that is a personal choice, but for integrating into home theater, the Xbox one has more features that Sony doesn't and if the TINY 3in by 5in (est) camera takes up your center channel space, it must not be a very good center channel :D

On another side note, I really don't care who is on the Blu-ray board, or who invented it, because it doesn't translate into better performance. I will take my Marantz or any Oppo Player over Sony and neither of those companies are on the board.

My point if Sony & MS are using essentially the same hardware, which has been documented, so no need to speculate, the performance of either Blu-ray player would be similar. Sony & MS are both using AMD 8 Core CPU & AMD GPU, both Blu-ray drive rate at the same speed, both have HDMI output, how different could they be?
 
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Tyfighter

Tyfighter

Junior Audioholic
I was going to answer those points Cos, because I have both machines reserved, but I'll just say this I don't have confidence in waggle/motion technology. I wouldn't care if they managed to hide the camera, I just don't like the idea of substituting my entire body for my hands. I go to the gym, I go to school, I go to work...last thing I want to do at home is jump around or wave my arms around to switch channels. I thought Kinect was a joke once I got over what I imagined vs. what was delivered. I don't like the motion direction and I don't prefer that direction. I wish they would so gung ho about chasing after the Wii's pot of motion gaming gold. So the inclusion or reliance on that motion technology is a negative to me, not a positive. I'm glad Nintendo moved away from motion with the Wii U as a matter of fact. I also PC game, and I don't like motion on PC gaming either. Remotes are more efficient and take far less effort. In the time it takes to press a button, I don't want to say "turn channel" instead, and I certainly don't welcome my friends or lady to change the channel with their arms/voice either. I know these things from experience, and I wasn't pleased to beta test the first kinect as it were.

It also is well documented that while they share very similar architecture's this time around, it's also well documented that one machine is more powerful under the hood than the other (this is probably the wrong forum to go into details to be honest), the issue is whether that extra juice that one machine has over the other will be a major variable down the road. I was tempted to place a few technology links, but I opted to refrain as this is a fun lovin' audio forum.

You are right, with regards to Blu-Ray playback, they do seem the same on paper as of right now, but we've been here before with earlier consoles. To answer the question about how different could the Blu-Ray players be in the new machines? We can use history. Before the Xbox and PS2 (1999-2001) came out, there was this belief they would have the same DVD playback. There was differences, quite a few actually from True Blacks to features. That same assumption again happened in 2005-2006 with the releases of the 360 and PS3. I would point to case studies of the DVD drive in the Xbox and PS2, and the DVD abilities of the PS3 (also Blu Capable) and 360 as a reference to differences. From interface, to options, to release official remotes, to ease of use, to gamma, to even sound...there were quite a few differences that some would squawk at, others wouldn't care about. Some people like 7.1 surround sound support, others were fine with 5.1, etc. Some would call the differences between those machines minute, others would say those differences are extreme enough to take notice as they find them very unappealing.

That all said, I do want to stress that I feel that we won't know differences until they release and this discussion is more on the fun side...and I'm looking forward to fiddling with both of these gaming doohickies in a few months when they launch.
 
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Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
I was going to answer those points Cos, because I have both machines reserved, but I'll just say this I don't have confidence in waggle/motion technology. I wouldn't care if they managed to hide the camera, I just don't like the idea of substituting my entire body for my hands. I go to the gym, I go to school, I go to work...last thing I want to do at home is jump around or wave my arms around to switch channels. I thought Kinect was a joke once I got over what I imagined vs. what was delivered. I don't like the motion direction and I don't prefer that direction. I wish they would so gung ho about chasing after the Wii's pot of motion gaming gold. So the inclusion or reliance on that motion technology is a negative to me, not a positive. I'm glad Nintendo moved away from motion with the Wii U as a matter of fact. I also PC game, and I don't like motion on PC gaming either. Remotes are more efficient and take far less effort. In the time it takes to press a button, I don't want to say "turn channel" instead, and I certainly don't welcome my friends or lady to change the channel with their arms/voice either. I know these things from experience, and I wasn't pleased to beta test the first kinect as it were.

It also is well documented that while they share very similar architecture's this time around, it's also well documented that one machine is more powerful under the hood than the other (this is probably the wrong forum to go into details to be honest), the issue is whether that extra juice that one machine has over the other will be a major variable down the road. I was tempted to place a few technology links, but I opted to refrain as this is a fun lovin' audio forum.



You are right, with regards to Blu-Ray playback, they do seem the same on paper as of right now, but we've been here before with earlier consoles. To answer the question about how different could the Blu-Ray players be in the new machines? We can use history. Before the Xbox and PS2 (1999-2001) came out, there was this belief they would have the same DVD playback. There was differences, quite a few actually from True Blacks to features. That same assumption again happened in 2005-2006 with the releases of the 360 and PS3. I would point to case studies of the DVD drive in the Xbox and PS2, and the DVD abilities of the PS3 (also Blu Capable) and 360 as a reference to differences. From interface, to options, to release official remotes, to ease of use, to gamma, to even sound...there were quite a few differences that some would squawk at, others wouldn't care about. Some people like 7.1 surround sound support, others were fine with 5.1, etc. Some would call the differences between those machines minute, others would say those differences are extreme enough to take notice as they find them very unappealing.

That all said, I do want to stress that I feel that we won't know differences until they release and this discussion is more on the fun side...and I'm looking forward to fiddling with both of these gaming doohickies in a few months when they launch.
-------------------------------------------------------

My answers were in response to the blu-ray playback. Based on everything I have read so far to date, there gives me little not to think that blu-ray playback will be similar on both systems. I wasn't talking about them as gaming systems. The Xbox One is designed to work within a Home Theater environment and provides some advantages in that area which is why I gave it the nod. (i.e. control your home theater from your Xbox, Cable TV overlays, and yes Fantasy Football!!!) As for as gaming systems go, I don't know at this point in the game.

Your references to older systems, wile correct are comparing apples to oranges and not relevant to the systems this time around. Those systems had completely different architectures and to compare them against each other is pointless. This time around, the general build is PC based, with probably 90% of the same components. DDR5 vs DDR3, or a having more fill rate is important for gaming, but not for Blu-ray Playback. I doubt very highly that from a sound or playback quality perspective they you will find any difference between units. If hardware is the same and it comes down to the software I would have more faith in Microsoft.

No need to send me links, I would say I am at least as educated as you are about these systems. I have done my homework as well, and while on paper the PS4 looks to be the more powerful system, the only way we will find out is in the games. The PS2 was billed as offering the Same Quality Graphics as the Star Wars Movies I-III by George Lucas and we all know how close to reality that was. The PS3 was the most powerful console of this generation, but mabye 8 games out of 400+ really showed any difference. Having had the chance to play both systems myself, there is no advantage one has over the other in the graphics department yet (First Generation of course) No one fully understands how effective the cloud will be with the MS console, so at this point I choose to hold judgement until at least after the first year.

As far as Kinect Goes, I work, I go to the gym, and in part I agree with you. On the other side of the coin, I like active games, when I have friends over it's fun to compete against each other in Kinect Sports. Kinect first generation did not meet expectations, but it did have some huge advantages. I loved the voice control of weapon changes in Mass effect and a few other games. This time around Kinect 2.0 adds a lot to the table, so I am reserving judgement until see in in action. I have seen some of the tech demos and have been impressed so far. While most of my gaming will be played on my computer chair or home theater seats, it's nice to get off my arsh as get the blood moving
 
Tyfighter

Tyfighter

Junior Audioholic
I can dig all that. :) Fantasy Football is pretty sweet which reminds me I can't wait for the next season of The League.
 

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