Finding the right Subwoofer

[JohnnyM22]

Hi I'm new to this site but I have always valued owning quality audio equipment for enjoying my music. I currently have a Rotel ra-1062 integrated amplifier that I bought a few years back. Unfortunately the speakers I have paired with it are pretty marginal (Boston Acoustics A40s) and I still haven't gotten around to upgrading them. Although I'd like to upgrade those eventually I'd rather spend my money on getting a good sub to beef up my system. Reason for this is I mostly listen to electronic and bass heavy music and this has been severely lacking with my current system.

I'm looking for a sub that can pair with this system, I'm assuming it would plug into the Pre-Out ports on my Rotel but I'm not 100% sure of that (still a newbie on this).

The system will be on the top floor of my house so the shape of the room is like an attic with 2 dormers. Here are the rough dimensions:

13' L x 13' W in the center area with a cone shaped ceiling max height 10.5'
Dormers are each 7' W x 7' deep with 9' ceilings.

90% of the time I'll be using it for music.

Max budget is around 500$ give or take

From reading around so far there are a few subs that interest me and seem to get a lot of praise:
VTF1- MK2
Klipsch RW -12d
Bic H100

Main question is which one of these would be right for my size room or are there other better choices?

Any advice appreciated,
Thanks
John

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

By far - SVS PB1000.
VTF-1 is not bad, but PB1000 is much better.
The rest are really not worth looking into at $500 budget.

Or if you like tinkering for a just bit more you could get really monster sub:
Dayton Audio 18" Reference Series HO Subwoofer and Cabinet P 300-7094
and
Behringer NU1000 iNUKE 1000 Watt Power Amplifier 248-6700
total parts: $560 sub very close to $2000 Funk 18.0C , minus the nice finish
You'd also need wood glue, 1lbs acoustastuff and few clamps

For $50 you could get same amp, but with programmable DSP - Amazon.com: Behringer NU1000DSP iNuke Power Amplifier: Musical Instruments
Which would allow much better room integration

 

[shadyJ]

By far - SVS PB1000.
VTF-1 is not bad, but PB1000 is much better.
The rest are really not worth looking into at $500 budget.

Or if you like tinkering for a just bit more you could get really monster sub:
Dayton Audio 18" Reference Series HO Subwoofer and Cabinet P 300-7094
and
Behringer NU1000 iNUKE 1000 Watt Power Amplifier 248-6700
total parts: $560 sub very close to $2000 Funk 18.0C , minus the nice finish
You'd also need wood glue, 1lbs acoustastuff and few clamps

For $50 you could get same amp, but with programmable DSP - Amazon.com: Behringer NU1000DSP iNuke Power Amplifier: Musical Instruments
Which would allow much better room integration

+1 hell yeah on the Dayton package. Overall it would be well over his budget of $500 though, including everything, especially if he doesn't have the clamps already, and want the finish to be better than bare MDF. You will also want to add some acoustic damping filling to it. It will be 10X better than anything under $500 though. If that is just too much work for the OP though, this would be a great kit and not far over the OP's budget. It would be a lot easier to assemble, and doesn't require any fancy tools, just a screwdriver and some adhesive. It would be pretty good for the price, of course not on the level of the Dayton 18", but likely better than anything under $500.

For loud electronic music, all the listed subs will be lacking, the VTF1, PB1000, BIC, etc, the only finished sub within his budget that might bring some punch to that music is the Premier Acoustic PA-150. For just a little a bit over his budget he can get a Hsu VTF2 or Rythmik FV12, either of which would be much better than anything under $500, although they wouldn't have the upper bass output of the PA-150.

 

[chaluga]

Shady ,
I have an hsu vtf15 in a 3000 sqft room. Would the dayton package be a little improvement , or a big one ?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

vtf-15h is a beast sub, both in size and performance. I wouldn't replace it, but on the other hand you could build a pair of daytons kits for about same price as one vtf-15h. Dual Daytons should do +3db and help fix some of room modes or +6db if stacked.
Price of 2 daytons kits plus one Behringer NU3000 amp = approx same price in parts.

 

[JohnnyM22]

Thanks for the replies,

Yea I think the Dayton 18" package is a little out of my league both experience-wise and price-wise although it does look sweet. The other package is a slight possibility but its pushing my budget. The return policy on the PB-1000 is tempting.. I guess you have a 45 day test period which would let me try it out and see how that size sub performs in my room. Looks are factor also and I like the looks of the HSU subs.

So.. comparing the 12" Dayton package, PA-150, PB-1000 and a VTF-2 what are the main differences? Does one stand out significantly from the others because it packs more power? Or does it have better extension?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

PA-150 has good mid-bass, but not very good low bass
PB-1000 has the least power, but one of most accurate subs and still packs a decent punch
VTF-2 is close call power wise to pb1000, is more universal in sense it's Q can be adjusted

I can't tell you much about dayton 12" package, but I don't expect much from it tbh

For your medium size room and music usage i think that pb1000 is best option due to free shipping both ways, 5 years warranty

 

[chaluga]

vtf-15h is a beast sub, both in size and performance. I wouldn't replace it, but on the other hand you could build a pair of daytons kits for about same price as one vtf-15h. Dual Daytons should do +3db and help fix some of room modes or +6db if stacked.
Price of 2 daytons kits plus one Behringer NU3000 amp = approx same price in parts.

I wish I knew that before I bought my.hsu. thanks

 

[shadyJ]

Thanks for the replies,

Yea I think the Dayton 18" package is a little out of my league both experience-wise and price-wise although it does look sweet. The other package is a slight possibility but its pushing my budget. The return policy on the PB-1000 is tempting.. I guess you have a 45 day test period which would let me try it out and see how that size sub performs in my room. Looks are factor also and I like the looks of the HSU subs.

So.. comparing the 12" Dayton package, PA-150, PB-1000 and a VTF-2 what are the main differences? Does one stand out significantly from the others because it packs more power? Or does it have better extension?

If you like it loud go with the PA-150. It will get louder than any of the others. Perhaps at the cost of sound quality though, and like was said, it doesn't do deep bass very well. You can read a review with detailed performance measurements here. The Dayton 12" will give you clean bass, but it won't give you much deep bass either. I think it would have a healthy amount of bass in range that music uses so that shouldn't be a concern. It might have a bit more mid and upper bass output than the VTF2. The PB1000 does do deep bass, but it won't have a lot of mid and upper bass. It will likely have the least output from any of them. As someone who likes to crank electronic music, it does not interest me. The VTF2 can do deep bass, but you can change it to trade deep bass output for more mid bass output. I think it could probably hit pretty hard. For electronic music, for me it would be a choice between the VTF2 and Dayton 12". If you occasionally play games and like to watch movies with deep bass scenes, I would go for the VTF2.

 

[shadyJ]

I wish I knew that before I bought my.hsu. thanks

I think dual 18" subs would be a bit more than the cost of the VTF15h. Like I said above, you will need the tools to assemble them, you will probably want polyfill too for damping, and some kind of paint or finish. You are going to want the DSP version of the amp in order to equalize and limit the subs, if not get an output EQ unit altogether, like a MiniDSP. It would no doubt be a better setup though. You will be able to compare them when Josh Ricci puts up some measurements for the VTF15h which he is going to do soon.

 

[chaluga]

I think dual 18" subs would be a bit more than the cost of the VTF15h. Like I said above, you will need the tools to assemble them, you will probably want polyfill too for damping, and some kind of paint or finish. You are going to want the DSP version of the amp in order to equalize and limit the subs, if not get an output EQ unit altogether, like a MiniDSP. It would no doubt be a better setup though. You will be able to compare them when Josh Ricci puts up some measurements for the VTF15h which he is going to do soon.

Being a woodwork teacher I wouldn't have costs for glue , clamps , etc. I am going to build the seos zephyr speakers . Since they dig below 40hz they should even out my bass some. Not the super low bass . Maybe later a dayton build.
Thanks.

 

[shadyJ]

I can't tell you much about dayton 12" package, but I don't expect much from it tbh

The dayton is using a good driver, probably better than any of them, except possibly the VTF2. It's beefier amp will help give it a bigger punch too. I wouldn't be surprised if it had the most clean output out of any of them except for the PA-150. Check out the T/S perameters for the driver, there are better out there, of course, but those aren't bad at all.

 

[JohnnyM22]

Alright so I'm considering either the VTF2 or the PB1000. The PA150 is an option too but tbh I wont be blasting my music that often since I have roommates (occasionally I will crank it though lol) and I would like a little more bass extension for movies. I usually dont go above moderate to moderate/high volumes. I really like the adjustability of the VTF's. I'm thinking maybe even the VTF1 might be quite satisfactory for my needs.. how much different is it than the VTF2? Just less output I would assume. I'd really like to test one out does anyone know what HSU's return policy is or if they do something like the PB1000? Could also look around town for some since I live in Chicago...

 

[shadyJ]

The Hsu's do have a return policy, 30 days, but you have to pay for shipping which isn't cheap on a big sub. The VTF2 would be a lot more capable than a VTF1. I used to have a STF2 which is like a VTF1 except without the variable tuning. I moved up to a VTF3, which is closer in performance to a VTF2. Big upgrade. Not just in output but in quality as well. The VTF2 and VTF3 use the same driver. Anyway, you might give Hsu a call and ask the approximate difference in performance.

 

[JohnnyM22]

Yea I was thinking of doing that, ok thanks.

 

[lsiberian]

By far - SVS PB1000.
VTF-1 is not bad, but PB1000 is much better.
The rest are really not worth looking into at $500 budget.

Or if you like tinkering for a just bit more you could get really monster sub:
Dayton Audio 18" Reference Series HO Subwoofer and Cabinet P 300-7094
and
Behringer NU1000 iNUKE 1000 Watt Power Amplifier 248-6700
total parts: $560 sub very close to $2000 Funk 18.0C , minus the nice finish
You'd also need wood glue, 1lbs acoustastuff and few clamps

For $50 you could get same amp, but with programmable DSP - Amazon.com: Behringer NU1000DSP iNuke Power Amplifier: Musical Instruments
Which would allow much better room integration

I love building my own things, but it's not cheaper unless you already have the tools. If you happen to be a woodworker then of course you should make your own subwoofer. That Dayton sub is a great driver, but a sealed sub should only be used when space is limited IMO. IMO Porting is required if you want deep balanced bass.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I love building my own things, but it's not cheaper unless you already have the tools. If you happen to be a woodworker then of course you should make your own subwoofer. That Dayton sub is a great driver, but a sealed sub should only be used when space is limited IMO. IMO Porting is required if you want deep balanced bass.

Well yes and no.
This 18" dayton driver will do good in ported box, but keep in mind, the sealed box is already 4 cu ft, the ported version starts from approx 7.5 cu ft... not everyone wants that monster in the living room.

PB1000 has free shipping (both ways) and 45 days return policy... I think it makes sense to start there and if not sufficient checkout HSU's offerings

 

[JohnnyM22]

Well yes and no.
This 18" dayton driver will do good in ported box, but keep in mind, the sealed box is already 4 cu ft, the ported version starts from approx 7.5 cu ft... not everyone wants that monster in the living room.

PB1000 has free shipping (both ways) and 45 days return policy... I think it makes sense to start there and if not sufficient checkout HSU's offerings

I think I may go for it with an SVS sub purely for their return policy and free shipping. That way I can really hear what a sub of this power sounds like in my room. Looked further into them and from reviews it seems the SB-1000 is more suited for music than the PB-1000... any thoughts on this or should I go ahead and order the pb1000?

 

[shadyJ]

Being a woodwork teacher I wouldn't have costs for glue , clamps , etc. I am going to build the seos zephyr speakers . Since they dig below 40hz they should even out my bass some. Not the super low bass . Maybe later a dayton build.
Thanks.

You don't want to use the SEOS speaker down to 40 Hz. They are using mid woofers, big midwoofers to be sure, but they aren't designed to do well down there. They are made for clear, loud, low distortion mid bass. You will want to use them above 80 Hz. Yes they can dig down to 40 Hz, but they will be coughing up blood doing so. Distortion will be a lot higher as you go closer to 40 Hz with the Definimax woofer.

 

[shadyJ]

I think I may go for it with an SVS sub purely for their return policy and free shipping. That way I can really hear what a sub of this power sounds like in my room. Looked further into them and from reviews it seems the SB-1000 is more suited for music than the PB-1000... any thoughts on this or should I go ahead and order the pb1000?

The SB1000 might be better for music. It will get louder at higher frequencies, probably above 40 Hz. It just won't have any deep bass. It wouldn't touch the Dayton though, and I'd be willing to bet the Dayton would be better than even the SB12 for electronic music.