Connecting Marantz to Samson Amps

[colinwoods84]

So here is my question. I am looking for the best way to hook it up all together. the pre outs on the marantz are just rca but.....I am confused. on back of receiver it shows me a "white" for FL and a "red" for front white. There are no two pair??? What am I missing here.

Sorry for the newb question but hope you all can help.

 

[Mopkins]

I think you may be confusing RCA preouts with speaker terminal outputs. RCA would be a single connection for each channel, while speaker wire has "Two" connections for each channel, Positive+ and Negative-. You'll run the Single RCA output from the Marantz to your Samson amplifier and from the amp, use two conductor speaker wire +/- to each speaker.

 

[markw]

Above poster is correct. You wound connect the red (right) and left (white) RCA jacks to the corrosponding input RCA jacks on your power amps.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, how were you planning on connecting them?

 

[BMXTRIX]

Why do people insist upon posting without listing a make and model #?

The Sampson amplifiers have a multitidue of different input connections including TRS, XLR, and Speakon. It may not have any RCA connections on the amplifier at all.

Which, we would know if you provided a model number along with your question.

Marantz - WHAT? BMB-1010? VH-5150?
Sampson - WHAT? BOA-9999W? A$S-4SLE?

You have to provide actual model numbers to get the information you need, but my guess is that you may need XLR or Speakon to RCA cables to make this work properly.

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE do you connect anything to the Red/Black binding posts other than the speakers you intend to use. (KA-BOOM!)

 

[markw]

Hey, when one asks a question without the necessary info, he gets a generic answer.

Considering the information offered, I'd say we did a pretty good job of providing a correct answer to at least 95% of the situations encountered here. OP did, in fact, perfectly describe the typical preamp outs of all the receivers I can think of.

But, yeah. If he really wanted an answer he would have posted a model number. A lot of posters think we're mind readers and should know what's going on inside their heads.

Apparantly he's not too concerned about it or else he would have clarified himself by now.

 

[colinwoods84]

sorry for not being so "thorough." first response was correct and is hooked up correctly. So here we go....

Samson sx1800 X 3 for all of my 5 speakers.

Im using a marantz sr7007 for my pre amp.

My new question is this,

I still got my "pre-amp" (marantz) cranked to "70" with my 300 watts per channel amp, shouldn't what "70" use to give me need to be backed down to way lower with the amps connected?????

Im still cranked up and not noticing a difference in "power." My Ascend Acoustics sounds as if they did with just the marantz powering them.

 

[markw]

A new amplifier won't change the sound of your speakers and it'll only provide more "power" for the occasional peak demands.

 

[fmw]

I still got my "pre-amp" (marantz) cranked to "70" with my 300 watts per channel amp, shouldn't what "70" use to give me need to be backed down to way lower with the amps connected?????

No, you have some fairly common misconceptions about amplification. In the first place, pro audio amps are not rated the same way home audio amps are. That is actually controlled by federal laws. The Samson amps are roughly the same power as the amps in your receiver. Even if they were double the power you would only add 3db of headroom to the amplification train. That's audible but certainly not substantial. Next understand that we home audio people normally use only a fraction of the power provided in our amplifiers. My own system doesn't even peak above 20 watts because I use a powered subwoofer. At 2 watts per channel average, it will drive me out of the room. Any added amplifier power would change nothing because I don't use what my receiver can deliver now. Your system might be different but that would be unusual. Finally, if you were to put more powerful amps, the only reason they might sound louder at a given volume setting would be a difference in input impedance. If the input impedance is very high as it should be, the volume control should produce the same volume with either set of amps. I hate telling you this but you haven't upgraded your system. You haven't hurt it but you haven't made any necessary or even meaningful improvements. You have a very nice receiver, though.

 

[colinwoods84]

ok so when I have speakers that are rated for a continuous power rating of 240w and my receiver can only provide 100 then these amps should be able to pick up the slack. I dont understand how at a given db + increased wattage does not give me more from my speakers.

 

[Grador]

ok so when I have speakers that are rated for a continuous power rating of 240w and my receiver can only provide 100 then these amps should be able to pick up the slack. I dont understand how at a given db + increased wattage does not give me more from my speakers.

Amps cant "pick up the slack". You're only using one amp, so you get whatever output the amp has. At a given db + 2x power you get 3 more db. That is more, 3 more in fact, but that's not a whole lot. Our hearing is not linear in the least, something with twice the energy does not seem that much louder.

 

[markw]

You only play your speakers so loud and they draw only as much power as they need to play that loud. As such, there is no "slack" to "pick up". It's simply there , lying in reserve, for any peaks that should pop up.

Apparantly, the amps in your receiver (which is quite nice on it's own) was doing a good job driving them to suit your needs to begin with. In fact, aside from brute power, they are probably better than your new amp.

 

[fmw]

ok so when I have speakers that are rated for a continuous power rating of 240w and my receiver can only provide 100 then these amps should be able to pick up the slack. I dont understand how at a given db + increased wattage does not give me more from my speakers.

You need to go back and reread what I wrote. The Samson amps are not more powerful than the amps in your receiver. They are probably more rugged but they don't produce any more real watts. The ratings are misleading-particularly when you put pro audio products in a home audio system. In order get an additional 3db of headroom (volume) you need to double the amplifier power. The amplifiers in your receiver have already doubled several time from what it necessary. It is a rare home theater user than needs more than 20 watts per channel. It would take very large room and very inefficient speakers with a very low impedance to need more. It happens but, truthfully, not very often. My speakers are 86 db efficient. That means with 1 watt they produce a sound pressure level of 86 db at a distance of 1 meter. 86 db is loud. 2 watts average produces 89 db. Even louder. 4 watts average produces 92 db. That is painfully loud. Seriously. It is possible for transient peaks to require 10 times the average power. So even our 92 db average would not go above a requirement for 40 watts. Your receiver produces 100 watts or so per channel. Maybe a db or so more. You aren't going to use all of that power unless the speakers are very inefficient or low in impedance or unless you have an auditorium sized room to fill. Adding more power just means that you will use less as a percentage of the total available. Your speakers will still draw the same amount of power. You will just have more power in reserve (headroom.) Don't feel bad. The manufacturers don't want to hassle you with all these details. They just want you to buy their stuff so they convince either directly or indirectly that their product will provide better results. Sometimes it is true. Sometimes it is not. It's just the way things are. You asked. I gave you an uncomfortable but honest answer. I wish this forum allowed me to use paragraphs.

 

[fmw]

After thinking over your post I wonder if you thought that adding the amps would combine their power with the existing amps in your receiver. If so, then understand that is not the case. Using an external amp replaces the amp in the receiver. The amp in the receiver simply doesn't operate. The preamp connection from your receiver to the external amp takes the place of the internal amp.

 

[colinwoods84]

i understand what you guys are saying. Problem is the watts and amps i work with everyday seem to be so different when it comes to audio. I guess i just feel like things should be more powerful.

 

[markw]

i understand what you guys are saying. Problem is the watts and amps i work with everyday seem to be so different when it comes to audio. I guess i just feel like things should be more powerful.

In all honesty, I would hope that since you work with these things on a daily basis, you would have a better understanding of what's been pointed out to you in this tread. After all, it's not all that difficult to understand. It's basically audio 101.

 

[fmw]

i understand what you guys are saying. Problem is the watts and amps i work with everyday seem to be so different when it comes to audio. I guess i just feel like things should be more powerful.

The watts and amps are the same throughout all of electronics. Current (amps) is the amount of electrical flow, voltage is the electrical "pressure" that drives it. Multiplying one by the other arrives at power (watts.) That is Ohm's law. Current X voltage = Power. The amplifiers in your system are capable of delivering a certain amount of power in watts. Your speakers draw however much of that power they need to deliver the sound pressure. If you raise the volume, they will need more power. If you reduce the volume, they will need less. What you do not want to do is set up a system that needs more power at the speakers than the amplifier can deliver. If you do that, the amplifier will distort the sound. So it gets down to how much power your speakers need to deliver the sound pressure you want. In the example of my own speakers they normally draw less than 1 watt of power on average. If I crank up the volume that number might go to 2 or 3 watts. We need some overhead to handle peaks because we don't want the peaks to distort either. So we use an amplifier that is bigger than the speakers need to operate without having any meaningful sound distortion. In my system, that's about 20 watts per channel (except for the deep bass which is handled by a powered subwoofer in my system.) My receiver delivers an honest 110 watts per channel. That means that I have about 90 watts of overhead or reserve power. My system will drive you out of the room way before it gets loud enough to draw more power than the amps can deliver. So I'm fine. I was suggesting that you, too, are probably fine but I don't have all the details. Hope that helps clarify a little.

 

[colinwoods84]

i work with amperage in terms of "the backup hydraulic pump has a 40amp load." I have always had an issue with what I do for a living and understanding home audio vs the naval education in which I am familiar with.

I totally understand now what you are saying. Why......as simple as you just explained it, I dont know why it was so hard for me to comprehend.

I will admit that I always default to looking at numbers for an explanation and when the numbers dont make sense to me i freak as in this case. I appreciate all the help.

 

[fmw]

i work with amperage in terms of "the backup hydraulic pump has a 40amp load." I have always had an issue with what I do for a living and understanding home audio vs the naval education in which I am familiar with.

I totally understand now what you are saying. Why......as simple as you just explained it, I dont know why it was so hard for me to comprehend.

I will admit that I always default to looking at numbers for an explanation and when the numbers dont make sense to me i freak as in this case. I appreciate all the help.

Same thing. The pump draws 40 amps of current when it operates. If you multiply 40 amps by the line voltage that feeds it, you will have the power in watts. Glad we could help.

 

[markw]

You need to understand what happens when electrical energy is converted to acoustic energ

Colin, if you really want to understand what's going on, you must expand your vocabulary to include "decibels". This is how "loudness", or acoustic energy, is expressed and when electrical energy/power (watts) is converted to acoustic power (decibels) all new rules apply. It's not a 1 to1 relationship as would seem logical.

For instance, an apparent doubling of loudness requires about ten times the watts. Merely doubling the watts results in a barely audible three decibels of loudness increase.

If you really want to learn more, this link does a fairly good job of tying the three together, but you've got to try to grasp it.

Once you've got that down, this next linkwill put those pesky decibels into real-world situations where you might be better able to grasp it better.

 

[slipperybidness]

Colin, if you really want to understand what's going on, you must expand your vocabulary to include "decibels". This is how "loudness", or acoustic energy, is expressed and when electrical energy/power (watts) is converted to acoustic power (decibels) all new rules apply. It's not a 1 to1 relationship as would seem logical.

For instance, an apparent doubling of loudness requires about ten times the watts. Merely doubling the watts results in a barely audible three decibels of loudness increase.

If you really want to learn more, this link does a fairly good job of tying the three together, but you've got to try to grasp it.

Once you've got that down, this next linkwill put those pesky decibels into real-world situations where you might be better able to grasp it better.

I'm not trying to be an a$$, but want to add some more info and make the picture a little less hazy here. Decibels are not always related to sound.

dB are very important in the electronics field. dB can be used as a measurement of sound pressure levels (as compared to some standard reference SPL that I cannot recall off the top of my head).

However, the dB terminology is also used for either voltage or power gains when related to electronics. The formula for voltage is dB = 20 log (v2/v1) and for power it is dB = 10 log (P2/P1). So, you can see how if you apply this equation and substitute (P2/P1) = 2 (power has doubled), then the dB gain is defined as 3dB. So, if I am at the -3bB point, then one way to express this in words is that my power output has dropped by half.

One key point to take away here is that a dB reading is not an absolute value, but rather it is a value as measured in reference to some other value.