Tired of China!

[Phil750]

I just would like input about most audio if not all made in China. I realize that majority of the money comes back here. Maybe I am just not educated on the way companies do business there. Do Engineers stay at plants to insure quality? Are any circuit boards built here then shipped over? What about transformers, speaker magnets? I could go on and on. I just recently made a significant purchase only to see those three dreaded words. How long will it be before Cadillac, Ford, GM come with that label affixed.
I just wanted to see if it bothers anyone besides me. Thanks Phil:

 

[lsiberian]

I think you'll find people at this forum are not racists. We simply want quality and good worker conditions for all things. Made in the USA isn't inherently better than made in China. I know plenty of hard working Chinese folks. If you are interested in the process of manufacturing contact FoxConn. China makes a lot of very good products. Don't let the bad ones make you condemn an entire industry. Every country has bad companies.

 

[cpp]

Doesn't bother me, as darn near everything electronic in your home has some parts or little components made in China. Heck check what your wearing I bet its not made in the US but in some other country.
I think I would be more worried about where my food and medicine comes from than electronic or cars parts.

This made in China thing has been commented on throughout the internet, just do a Google.

Just enjoy the music...

 

[Grador]

I'd also like to add that those american cars you talked about do in fact have a very large percentage of their parts imported from china for assembly in the US. So really the answer to that question is "many years ago"

 

[Haoleb]

There are still plenty of great products made right here in the US. Most of them with customer service that is also far above the big players as well.

 

[3zones]

Are you familiar with economic principals such as trade imbalances, net exports etc?
End of the day, Chinese goods are cheaper. I like to spend less money versus more money for the things I want all else equal. When I see made in America which is almost never, I know I will need to give more dollars for something for which I could give less dollars.

 

[j_garcia]

Get used to it. If you have electronics, some or all of it is made elsewhere. YES it is a business thing. Even things that are American manufactured are still likely using a large percentage of components that are coming from someplace like China.

Quality has nothing to do with manufacturing it has to do with the company DOING the manufacturing. If you have good QC, you can have a quality product built anywhere. If you want to make a profit on that product...well that's a different story.

IBTL.

 

[TLS Guy]

Are you familiar with economic principals such as trade imbalances, net exports etc?
End of the day, Chinese goods are cheaper. I like to spend less money versus more money for the things I want all else equal. When I see made in America which is almost never, I know I will need to give more dollars for something for which I could give less dollars.

Yes, and the Chinese product probably won't work. I just don't know why the Chinese bother to get out of bed.

I had to have a new water well drilled. I made sure all the products were US made, especially the hose clamps, as Chinese ones strip right away.

Then the well pump. I bought a Wayne made in America pump 14 years ago, that is still working. So I did not want instal a 14 year old pump. So I checked on a new Wayne, and it was $179, but made in China. So I checked it out and found that the impeller spins on the shaft after just 15 days of use.

The drillers told me that they installed a made in China Wayne at a customers insistence.

Three failed to work right out of the box. So they ended up purchasing a made in America pump Sta-Brite from Wisconsin. This was the same pump that my due diligence had told me that that was the one to get. That pump cost $383. However it likely will still be running in 40 years.

It is attitudes like yours that cause all this useless junk to be manufactured and imported. It irritates the life out of me. There is only any point in making anything that is for purpose and durable.

The trouble with all these useless MBAs and marketing types, is that they say we want to make a produict to cost X dollars. Instead of asking how to we make a good durable product to perform a given function and then price it. The world has been backwards for far too long.

I could just go on and on about products that just don't work right from the start or soon after use.

 

[3zones]

Yes, and the Chinese product probably won't work. I just don't know why the Chinese bother to get out of bed.

I had to have a new water well drilled. I made sure all the products were US made, especially the hose clamps, as Chinese ones strip right away.

Then the well pump. I bought a Wayne made in America pump 14 years ago, that is still working. So I did not want instal a 14 year old pump. So I checked on a new Wayne, and it was $179, but made in China. So I checked it out and found that the impeller spins on the shaft after just 15 days of use.

The drillers told me that they installed a made in China Wayne at a customers insistence.

Three failed to work right out of the box. So they ended up purchasing a made in America pump Sta-Brite from Wisconsin. This was the same pump that my due diligence had told me that that was the one to get. That pump cost $383. However it likely will still be running in 40 years.

It is attitudes like yours that cause all this useless junk to be manufactured and imported. It irritates the life out of me. There is only any point in making anything that is for purpose and durable.

The trouble with all these useless MBAs and marketing types, is that they say we want to make a produict to cost X dollars. Instead of asking how to we make a good durable product to perform a given function and then price it. The world has been backwards for far too long.

I could just go on and on about products that just don't work right from the start or soon after use.

Well now there are different levels of Chinese made products. I have had the opposite experiences with many things that are Chinese. As mentioned above, all else equal, I prefer to spend less of my hard earned dollars versus more of my hard earned dollars. I have a bit of a silly example. To save money last fall, I replaced my own brakes and rotors. I went to the wholesale place that supplies parts to the dealers but doesn't ask you if you are a dealer or not so will sell to you. The rotor choices were the cheap Chinese version which were substantially cheaper than the American made version. I chose the American made version since I didn't want the rotors to be rusty on my $49,000 car. The expensive, American rotors were severely rusty in a matter of 4 months time. A stupid example but I have to say, I'm not happy that the supposed better rotors that were very specifically not supposed to rust are completely rusty. I now have rotors (the rotor hat) on my car that will last a long time but be rusty their entire life. Similar to your single and far too small a sample size example, I went American and got stung.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Well now there are different levels of Chinese made products. I have had the opposite experiences with many things that are Chinese. As mentioned above, all else equal, I prefer to spend less of my hard earned dollars versus more of my hard earned dollars. I have a bit of a silly example. To save money last fall, I replaced my own brakes and rotors. I went to the wholesale place that supplies parts to the dealers but doesn't ask you if you are a dealer or not so will sell to you. The rotor choices were the cheap Chinese version which were substantially cheaper than the American made version. I chose the American made version since I didn't want the rotors to be rusty on my $49,000 car. The expensive, American rotors were severely rusty in a matter of 4 months time. A stupid example but I have to say, I'm not happy that the supposed better rotors that were very specifically not supposed to rust are completely rusty. I now have rotors (the rotor hat) on my car that will last a long time but be rusty their entire life. Similar to your single and far too small a sample size example, I went American and got stung.

Which brand / model of rotors were these that weren't supposed to rust?

 

[Adam]

Yes, and the Chinese product probably won't work. I just don't know why the Chinese bother to get out of bed.

Well, that's a bit...ummm...generalized. I have plenty of Chinese products that work. They probably get out of bed for the same reasons that folks in other countries do. I know people in the U.S. that take a huge amount of care and pride in what they do, and others that go to work just for the paycheck and do the minimum necessary. Same story the world over.

I'd typically prefer to buy "Made in America" because of national pride and a desire to support the economy in my home country. However, there are some products that are made better elsewhere. As for products made in China, they are getting better. They will also get more expensive as the economy there improves and the population's expectations change.

 

[Pyrrho]

Yes, and the Chinese product probably won't work. I just don't know why the Chinese bother to get out of bed.

I had to have a new water well drilled. I made sure all the products were US made, especially the hose clamps, as Chinese ones strip right away.

Then the well pump. I bought a Wayne made in America pump 14 years ago, that is still working. So I did not want instal a 14 year old pump. So I checked on a new Wayne, and it was $179, but made in China. So I checked it out and found that the impeller spins on the shaft after just 15 days of use.

The drillers told me that they installed a made in China Wayne at a customers insistence.

Three failed to work right out of the box. So they ended up purchasing a made in America pump Sta-Brite from Wisconsin. This was the same pump that my due diligence had told me that that was the one to get. That pump cost $383. However it likely will still be running in 40 years.

It is attitudes like yours that cause all this useless junk to be manufactured and imported. It irritates the life out of me. There is only any point in making anything that is for purpose and durable.

The trouble with all these useless MBAs and marketing types, is that they say we want to make a produict to cost X dollars. Instead of asking how to we make a good durable product to perform a given function and then price it. The world has been backwards for far too long.

I could just go on and on about products that just don't work right from the start or soon after use.

How do you like your Oppo BDP-83? It was made in China. Probably, some of your other expensive audio gear was made in China. Some of it is probably quite good.

 

[j_garcia]

Which brand / model of rotors were these that weren't supposed to rust?

That's what I was thinking. Rotors rust, period. The only ones that won't, cost more than most cars and come on exotics, so rusty rotors is sort of a really bad example.

Large companies are in business to make money, not make a quality product. They (generally) make products at the lowest cost with just enough quality that people will be satisfied. That's the way to make a profit. As a society, the average person demands LOW COST over quality so their dollar dictates how business is done. Small companies can afford to do things "right" and maybe make a little less profit somewhere along the line; those companies are fewer and fewer these days, and you will also generally pay more for them.

 

[Adam]

That's what I was thinking. Rotors rust, period. The only ones that won't cost more than most cars and come on exotics, so rusty rotors is sort of a really bad example.

How about this example. A while back, I went to a Chinese restaurant. It wasn't good. I just don't know why they got up that morning.

 

[Rickster71]

Well, that's a bit...ummm...generalized. I have plenty of Chinese products that work. They probably get out of bed for the same reasons that folks in other countries do. I know people in the U.S. that take a huge amount of care and pride in what they do, and others that go to work just for the paycheck and do the minimum necessary. Same story the world over.

I'd typically prefer to buy "Made in America" because of national pride and a desire to support the economy in my home country. However, there are some products that are made better elsewhere. As for products made in China, they are getting better. They will also get more expensive as the economy there improves and the population's expectations change.

Nice post Adam, well said.

I could write all day on this subject. Simply because it's so complex and misunderstood.

Back in my circuit board design days I had a lot of first hand experience with overseas manufacturing.
In the same time that our unionized manufacturing plants in the USA told me a board was impossible to make. I'd have a stack of 50 prototypes in my hand from overseas.

Later I'll relay a conversation (in greater detail) I had recently with a friend that owns an extremely large uniform manufacturing company here. However he has most of his work done better, cheaper, and faster in China.
He's been traveling and dealing with China for over 30 years. He's convinced we're being lied to, with regards to China not being the world's #1 super power.....his jokes is, "If they aren't now, wait a few days."

It's said, The only thing we can rely on is change.
I hate to say it, but the USA doesn't do 'everything' the biggest and the best anymore.
We've reached the tipping point of becoming an entitlement society.

 

[Alex2507]

others go to work just for the paycheck and do the minimum necessary

Don't talk like you f^%&in' know me.

 

[Haoleb]

....Back in my circuit board design days I had a lot of first hand experience with overseas manufacturing.
In the same time that our unionized manufacturing plants in the USA told me a board was impossible to make. I'd have a stack of 50 prototypes in my hand from overseas...

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head here. The damned labor unions are part of the reason this country has gown downhill with manufacturing. Unions may have had their time and place back in the day, But these days it is my opinion that unions only serve themselves and are a major cause of the downfall. When I went to a job interview a while back and they told me it was a union job (I had not known this beforehand, and was unfamiliar with unions in general) and that everything was based on seniority I was beside myself on what a bad idea that is. And how badly the company is getting it up the you know what! A labor union will only make people work just hard enough not to get fired and does not reward those who actually have a talent or are the shining stars.. no... it rewards the people who have been there the longest regardless of how terrible or unskilled or lazy they are. This boggles my mind. Quite frankly I find it sickening. I have seen firsthand people in unions that are just plain lazy and have no desire for self improvement or desire to excel. Or go the "extra mile" and frankly their employers hands are tied in the matter. I have decided I will never work for a union.

 

[jcunwired]

Tired of China!

Me too. The worst is picnics, the china never survives. We switched to paper plates and have not looked back.

 

[Alex2507]

I have seen firsthand people in unions that are just plain lazy and have no desire for self improvement or desire to excel.

Holy sh!t ... I think you actually do know me.

 

[fuzz092888]

I see it both ways. It's an imperfect system where unions are necessary in many cases due to employers or others trying to screw them over and/or take advantage of them. On the other hand I've definitely seen unions do a great disservice to just about everyone except members of that union. I seem to always find myself adamantly defending and then criticizing my own union.

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head here. The damned labor unions are part of the reason this country has gown downhill with manufacturing. Unions may have had their time and place back in the day, But these days it is my opinion that unions only serve themselves and are a major cause of the downfall. When I went to a job interview a while back and they told me it was a union job (I had not known this beforehand, and was unfamiliar with unions in general) and that everything was based on seniority I was beside myself on what a bad idea that is. And how badly the company is getting it up the you know what! A labor union will only make people work just hard enough not to get fired and does not reward those who actually have a talent or are the shining stars.. no... it rewards the people who have been there the longest regardless of how terrible or unskilled or lazy they are. This boggles my mind. Quite frankly I find it sickening. I have seen firsthand people in unions that are just plain lazy and have no desire for self improvement or desire to excel. Or go the "extra mile" and frankly their employers hands are tied in the matter. I have decided I will never work for a union.