Bryston Model T Floorstanding Speakers

[MinusTheBear]

Power response measurements are sorely misunderstood. Again Linkwitz states many speakers have a power response that can vary by as much as 20 dB!

Nope! All that graph represents is an on-axis frequency response, and the response 15 and 30 degrees off-axis in the horizontal plane.

 

[Stedanko]

This is 45,60 and 75.

 

[Stedanko]

So let's put these all together.

 

[MinusTheBear]

It's the same stuff that the soundstage review measurements showed.

 

[Stedanko]

It's the same stuff that the soundstage review measurements showed.

No it's not they do not take it to 75 degrees.

There's a bump in the same region where Soundstage shows a dip. This is what one will hear taking into account reflections in a typical room
it is quite a bit flatter and more accurate than when you just consider the on axis measurements.

Once again I ask have you heard either the Model T or Salon2? Much easier to have a discussion if you've heard the speakers rather than attempting to audition through measurements.

 

[MinusTheBear]

No it's not they do not take it to 75 degrees.

There's a bump in the same region where Soundstage shows a dip. Taken together and what one will hear taking into account reflections in a typical room
it is quite a bit flatter and more accurate than when you just consider the on axis measurements.

Once again I ask have you heard either the Model T or Salon2? Much easier to have a discussion if you've heard the speakers rather than attempting to audition through measurements.

The on-axis and a few horizontal off-axis measurements is not a complete picture of the direct and reflected sound which you will perceive.

Also when you take into account all the summed 360 degree measurements (200 like you say) it's not going to be "flat".

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It's personal preference. Nothing more. Some will like and some will dislike. It's the same with any brand of speakers.

The Klipsch KL650-THX has a listening window of +/-1dB (AH and HTM), which is better than just about any speaker out there, except the NHT Absolute Zero, which is also about +/-1dB (HTM), but +/-3dB (S+V). The KL650 is also THX Ultra2 certified, which means it has smooth off-axis response.

But measurements are not everything, especially from just a single 3rd party. Let's wait for another source like AH or Stereophile.

One person's opinion about the Bryston sounding better than anything else is just personal opinion, nothing more.

 

[Stedanko]

It's personal preference. Nothing more. Some will like and some will dislike. It's the same with any brand of speakers.

The Klipsch KL650-THX has a listening window of +/-1dB (AH and HTM), which is better than just about any speaker out there, except the NHT Absolute Zero, which is also about +/-1dB (HTM), but +/-3dB (S+V). The KL650 is also THX Ultra2 certified, which means it has smooth off-axis response.

But measurements are not everything, especially from just a single 3rd party. Let's wait for another source like AH or Stereophile.

One person's opinion about the Bryston sounding better than anything else is just personal opinion, nothing more.

No the Bryston do not sound better than everything else. Of course there are better speakers but I have not owned or heard anything remotely close to their price range that can do what they do. I would take them in a hearbeat over the Revels or Aerial 20T but the KEF 207/2 would require quite a bit of thought but then the KEFs are much more expensive than $6495.
Many people do not trust their own ears and require the validation a TAS or Stereophile review can bring. Let's hope there are reviews in the works.
We can also hope that some folks stating their perceived truth might actually someday get to hear these. Pretty hard to take someone seriously deriving an opinion from measurements rather than actually living with the speakers being discussed.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Just so we are clear, you have been the one posting all these measurements of speakers trying to make a point. Incorrectly interpreting them btw.

Though I do agree measurements are only a tool and have to be used in context as such.

 

[Stedanko]

Just so we are clear, you have been the one posting all these measurements of speakers trying to make a point. Incorrectly interpreting them btw.

Though I do agree measurements are only a tool and have to be used in context as such.

To TRULY be clear they have not been misinterpreted in any way. The concept of how on axis and off axis correlates eludes many people.
Now when or if you ever hear the Revel or Bryston please chime in as at that point we may be able to have a proper discussion.
Sadly since you haven't heard either an intelligent discussion is impossible at this juncture.
If you'd like to learn more about power response please feel free to PM me as this is dangerously close to being off-topic.
Happy listening!

 

[MinusTheBear]

To TRULY be clear they have not been misinterpreted in any way. The concept of how on axis and off axis correlates eludes many people.
Now when or if you ever hear the Revel or Bryston please chime in as at that point we may be able to have a proper discussion.
Sadly since you haven't heard either an intelligent discussion is impossible at this juncture.
If you'd like to learn more about power response please feel free to PM me as this is dangerously close to being off-topic.
Happy listening!

Actually what I have been pointing out is that you don't have a clue what power response is. An individual that had the slightest idea of what power response was would not confuse it with a listening window response.

 

[Stedanko]

Actually what I have been pointing out is that you don't have a clue what power response is. An individual that had the slightest idea of what power response was would not confuse it with a listening window response.

Oh there's been no confusion HERE as to "listening window" or "power response". You should do some reading as there's a wealth of information out there for people just starting out in this wonderful hobby knowledge is power as they say.
Dunlavy and Linwitz have published some easily accessible papers for you to peruse to add to your understanding and perhaps even more importantly try to actually listen to these speakers then look me up.
I wish you success on your exciting "journey of discovery" .

 

[MinusTheBear]

Oh there's been no confusion HERE as to "listening window" or "power response". You should do some reading as there's a wealth of information out there for people just starting out in this wonderful hobby knowledge is power as they say.
Dunlavy and Linwitz have published some easily accessible papers for you to peruse to add to your understanding and perhaps even more importantly try to actually listen to these speakers then look me up.
I wish you success on your exciting "journey of discovery" .

Dude, you have been posting all these graphs mentioning all these people without even the basic understanding of what you are posting.

 

[Stedanko]

LOL okay "dude". Add Voecks to the list of people you can read to help you understand the basics of sound reproduction.
Don't forget to pop back once you've actually listened to the speakers being discussed here.

 

[MinusTheBear]

LOL okay "dude". Add Voecks to the list of people you can read to help you understand the basics of sound reproduction.
Don't forget to pop back once you've actually listened to the speakers being discussed here.

This has gotten to the point of weird now. You don't need to tell me about these individuals, I know who they are.

 

[Stedanko]

This has gotten to the point of weird now. You don't need to tell me about these individuals, I know who they are.

What's truly "weird" is your posting in a thread about a speaker you will probably never own or hear and thinking you have any concept as to what it will sound like.
That's truly a little odd and more than a little sad.

 

[MinusTheBear]

What's truly "weird" is your posting in a thread about a speaker you will probably never own or hear and thinking you have any concept as to what it will sound like.
That's truly a little odd and more than a little sad.

It's not weird at all. You are the one trying to make a point about graphs. Your failure to understand what you are posting and while using individuals names and research in their context is weird and wrong. I am just taking what those graphs are at face value. Nothing more, nothing less. If I haven't pointed it out to already, measurements are a tool and should be used in context as such.

 

[Stedanko]

It's not weird at all. You are the one trying to make a point about graphs. Your failure to understand what you are posting and while using individuals names and research in their context is weird and wrong. I am just taking what those graphs are at face value. Nothing more, nothing less. If I haven't pointed it out to already, measurements are a tool and should be used in context as such.

What you are taking at face value completely eludes you. You really need to do some reading as to how on-axis and varios off-axis points will relate to the real world sound
in a real room. There are sound reasons why Bryston, Revel and PSB pay so much attention to and place more emphasis on measurements taken off axis rather than on-axis.
You can have a speaker that measures flat on-axis but if the off-axis response is elevated the speaker will sound horribly bright and flawed.

Not sure at all where there's any failure to understand these most basic tenets of speaker design.

PSB's Paul Barton had this to say:

If a loudspeaker's response 60 to 75 degrees off-axis looks good, but 30 degrees is terrible, I'm not as concerned as I would be if 30 degrees was nice and 60 to 75 degrees was terrible. Because the coloration of the off-axis sound comes soon enough after the first sound that you tend to integrate the two. And it's the sum of the first and second arrivals that gives you the sonic signature. Not just the first sound. That's something I pay an awful lot of attention to.

 

[gene]

As an owner of the Model T I thought I'd chime in here as I may be the only one who's not just speculating on the sound and value.
I have owned Revel Salon 1 and 2s, Aerial 20T, Egglestonworks Andra2,
KEF 207/2, 2 of the Magnepan 20 series and many more and while a couple do some things better than my Model Ts
OVERALL the Model T are the best speaker I have owned. The coherence and dynamics are unbelievable.
I find instead of fretting over every little thing we are listening to music MUCH more than we used to.
Considering what I paid for those other speakers the Bryston are priced EXTREMELY well. Anyone here actually heard the speakers?

That's awesome your able to try out so many higher end speakers in your own listening space.

Please feel free to share images of your speakers installed in your room on this thread and our dedicated forum area where people post their systems. This is eye candy for fellow audioholics and we often share these images on our FB page.

 

[MinusTheBear]

What you are taking at face value completely eludes you. You really need to do some reading as to how on-axis and varios off-axis points will relate to the real world sound
in a real room. There are sound reasons why Bryston, Revel and PSB pay so much attention to and place more emphasis on measurements taken off axis rather than on-axis.
You can have a speaker that measures flat on-axis but if the off-axis response is elevated the speaker will sound horribly bright and flawed.

Not sure at all where there's any failure to understand these most basic tenets of speaker design.

PSB's Paul Barton had this to say:

If a loudspeaker's response 60 to 75 degrees off-axis looks good, but 30 degrees is terrible, I'm not as concerned as I would be if 30 degrees was nice and 60 to 75 degrees was terrible. Because the coloration of the off-axis sound comes soon enough after the first sound that you tend to integrate the two. And it's the sum of the first and second arrivals that gives you the sonic signature. Not just the first sound. That's something I pay an awful lot of attention to.

You don't have a clue.

Copy and pasting doesn't do you any favors either.