The Perfect Receiver ... Marantz SR7005, Yamaha RX-A2020 ... or is Denon 4311ci the best??

[bizmord]

After spending $4,000 on Home Theater equipment, reading hundreds of posts on 5 different forums I learned that once you upgrade to Audiophile level speakers/sub ... all other components start to matter .... one of the biggest one I found to be is a GOOD RECEIVER.

I so far tested Onkyo 818, Yamaha RX-A2020, Marantz SR7005.

Each one has it's pros and cons. Some sound softer, some more harsh, some do great job with surround, some are not so great. Some may be better than others but overdo on room correction and end up sounding blend.

My question .............

I hear all the great talk about Denon 4311ci. I don;t want to be cheap, save $500 on a receiver and not get the best out of my speakers.

I am running a 5.1 system. Do not plan on doing 9.1 or 9.2 or 7.1/7.2 or even 5.2. I am OK with my 5.1 for now.

If I spend a bit more than what Marantz SR7005 costs and about the same as Yamaha RX-A2020 on a new Denon 4311ci ... will I have the father of them all?????

I've been shopping for a receiver for over 2 months now and I want to be done with it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For $1225 or less, the Denon 4311 is hard to beat for sure.

 

[Steve81]

My question .............

I hear all the great talk about Denon 4311ci. I don;t want to be cheap, save $500 on a receiver and not get the best out of my speakers.

If I spend a bit more than what Marantz SR7005 costs and about the same as Yamaha RX-A2020 on a new Denon 4311ci ... will I have the father of them all?????

Didn't you already go down this road:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/82874-ramblings-man-who-likes-$300-receiver-sound-over-$1-600-denon-4311ci.html

 

[bizmord]

For $1225 or less, the Denon 4311 is hard to beat for sure.

but aren't you biased since you own one? ;-)

Didn't you already go down this road:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/82874-ramblings-man-who-likes-$300-receiver-sound-over-$1-600-denon-4311ci.html

Yea, at that time I was too intimidated by this unit .... din;t read the manual, didn;'t do the correct room correction set up ... sent it back. Wouldn't it be funny if I ended up with this unit after all?

 

[PENG]

I have no doubt that among the units listed by the OP, the 4311 is the best deal, mainly because of its XT32 but also because it offers significantly more power and is 4 ohm rated. Oh, it also offers 11.2, and the latest Denon Link that is good for those who own compatible Denon players.

I know some people says Audyssey improves things for them while others have no use for it. For me, Audyssey is very good for bass management, especially XT32 as it really works for me. Beyond that, I find XT32 also seem to make an audible difference for me. I now use it more often for 2 channel stereo music enjoyment, but any such perceived (by me) improvement is still subtle. I would also say that perhaps some (of course not all) of those who did not benefit from it might not have run their setup correctly. I must have run setup at least 10 times each time I changed AVR and prepro. I have run it about 5 times within a week since I have the 8801, so I am getting good at it. It really is a must to use a good tripod, at ear level and make sure the mic is not blocked by anything (including your body part) nearby. I also read that people don't always do it for all 8 positions due to the false belief that it is only necessary to do it for the one listening position unless there are multiple listening positions. The software need the data from more positions, in order to figure out the room more accurately. For those who run their setup correctly, improvements may still depend on the specific room.

 

[bizmord]

OK, UPDATE

So, tested Yamaha RX-A2020 and hooked my Marantz SR7005 back. Here are the differences I heard..........


For regular TV
Marantz is wayyyy better. Voices sound more natural, deep, full. Very, very nice.

For Blu-Ray movies
I got to admit .... surround, bass management, sound detail and overall feel ... Yamaha beats Marantz. It just feels like it's on a different level.
One thing that Marantz did better however is ... dialog is more natural. Yamaha makes dialog sound kinda weird. If you don't use their Dialog adjustment (magnify) it's OK ... if you use Yamaha's Dialog level increase (1, 2, 3) you hear dialog better but it just feels amplified ... not so natural.

For FLAC/WAV/MP3 music through CD Player (Analog)
Seems like Yamaha is brighter and thus it feels as if there is more detail and sound is just nicer. Yamaha's option to play ALL CHANNELS music is great. I know many don't like that option on other brand receivers but it just works nice with Yamaha. They know how to make it still sound right. Marantz is not so great ... I use 2.1 Stereo on it. Today what I'll do is ... I'll try to come close to sound Yamaha had by turning EQ OFF (it dimmed down my tremble due to poor room acoustics) ... thus maybe it made it sound toooo dark and bassy. Maybe if I turn Audyssey EQ off I'll get my tremble the way it should sound and add a little more level increase to my sub to make sure it doesn't feel tooo bright.


RESULT.

I wish I could merge these 2 units together, pick things that are good from each one and have 1 awesome receiver.
I was surprised but for movies .... Yamaha felt like it's a big step up receiver ..... it did however bombed on dialog ... but sound effect management and detail..... nice.


NEXT STEPS.
Yesterday ordered Denon 4311ci
Let's see what it can do.

If all fails with Denon ... maybe Yamaha RX-A2010 (previous model) will do good.

 

[GlocksRock]

I recently purchased a 4311ci and I love it, it's absolutely amazing and sounds fantastic. It wasn't as difficult to setup as I thought it would be, and it has tons of features.

 

[bizmord]

So latest update .... I just bought a Yamaha RX-V3900 for $600 and also got Denon 4311ci for $1280.
Yamaha is used and Denon is new.

I will get a chance to demo both units in 2 weeks.
What do you guys think? Which one would win?
Is Denon 4311 worth double the price???

 

[cpp]

I had the Denon 4311 and the Yamaha RX-A3010 in the house at the same time and after 7 days kept the 4311. It's sound was just a better match for my speakers.

 

[bizmord]

I had the Denon 4311 and the Yamaha RX-A3010 in the house at the same time and after 7 days kept the 4311. It's sound was just a better match for my speakers.

You made a great point right now .... "with my speakers" .. we should also add words like "in my room" .... I think those two (speakers & room acoustics) matter so much when choosing a receiver. For some Marantz is too boring and settle, but for a person who's got sound bouncing off the walls and actually prefers the more toned down sound that receiver will be great.

I hope that I like the RX-V3900 as I got it on Ebay and can't return it. The 4311 ... I can demo and send back. Only difference is that it's twice as more expensive.
so we'll see.

 

[bizmord]

my only gripe is that I have this 4311 at home right now but it came without the Audyssey mic. That's why they offered to replace with a brand new 4311 at same price as open box $1279.


I do have Audyssey mic from Marantz SR7005 but I hear that you MUST use the mic that came with the receiver. How accurate is that??? Can't I at least try?

 

[Pyrrho]

my only gripe is that I have this 4311 at home right now but it came without the Audyssey mic. That's why they offered to replace with a brand new 4311 at same price as open box $1279.


I do have Audyssey mic from Marantz SR7005 but I hear that you MUST use the mic that came with the receiver. How accurate is that??? Can't I at least try?

Some receivers use the same microphone as some other receivers, but others use different ones. So what you need to know is whether or not the particular receivers in question use the same microphone or not. For that information, if it isn't in the manual(s), you should consult with the manufacturer(s).

If you are not using the equalization features, you can probably get away with using the same microphone. That is, probably, you could get away with the wrong microphone for setting levels and distances, but not for any equalization feature. As far as subwoofer crossover levels are concerned, unless the new models have improved that aspect, you need to set it manually to get it right, and that is based primarily on the bass response of the speakers that you are using. The setting should be a bit above the -3dB point of the speakers. Thus, for example, I use an 80Hz crossover setting with speakers that are rated at -3dB @ 50Hz.

 

[allargon]

Bizmord, have you tried the HK AVR 3700? It seems that HK has finally caught up on the "apps" that the others have had for the past two years. Moreover, they brought the pre-outs back.

 

[ichigo]

HK 3700 can't match the Denon 4311 or Yamaha RX-A2010/2020; it only has about half as much power in stereo mode at and is at least 50% weaker in multichannel amplification.

 

[bizmord]

sooo....latest news...


Hooked up Denon 4311 .... did the Audyssey with my Marantz mic .... changed speakers to Small .... crossover at 80.
Range seems correct.


Results...


Regular TV .......... very nice. Better than Marantz and 10 times better than Yamaha RX-A2020


BluRay .... also, awesome bass control 10 times better than Marantz SR7005, BUT .... on same level as Yamaha RX-2020, maybe even a bit under. I felt like I heard more detail with Yamah ... just a tad more. But BASS ..... like I said, 10 times better than Marantz and ALMOST as good as Yamaha 2020.


Music CD via Analog .... I;d say better than Marantz ... a bit more detailed, BUT, Yamaha 2020 still felt like it may have given more detail and bass. The option that Yamaha is famous for (all channels), even though many would say that it's the wrong way for listening to music, sounds very, very nice.




Anyway ......... getting my last receiver (Yamaha RX-A3900) in 2 weeks. I hope it does better than Denon 4311ci, BUT, got to tell you ... without major tweaking and with non original Denon mic ... result is very nice so far. Bass especially very controlled.

 

[cpp]

You made a great point right now .... "with my speakers" .. we should also add words like "in my room" .... I think those two (speakers & room acoustics) matter so much when choosing a receiver. For some Marantz is too boring and settle, but for a person who's got sound bouncing off the walls and actually prefers the more toned down sound that receiver will be great.

I hope that I like the RX-V3900 as I got it on Ebay and can't return it. The 4311 ... I can demo and send back. Only difference is that it's twice as more expensive.
so we'll see.

Agree a lot of people recommend this or that, but fail to consider the person(s) that is doing the recommending's speakers and room... which can be totally different than the person getting the recommendation ( if that makes sense)

 

[allargon]

You made a great point right now .... "with my speakers" .. we should also add words like "in my room" .... I think those two (speakers & room acoustics) matter so much when choosing a receiver. For some Marantz is too boring and settle, but for a person who's got sound bouncing off the walls and actually prefers the more toned down sound that receiver will be great.

Maybe that's what's wrong with my Yamaha. My room prefers a boring and subtle HK or Marantz.

Like you, I found the initial Yamaha settings too bassy, too. YPAO got the levels wrong. (It, unlike Onkyo's Audyssey, got the distances perfect.) A quick 15 minutes with a SPL meter fixed that.

I hope you find the perfect receiver. Your input on that Denon makes me want to return my A720 for a 3313ci (But, I can't make my wife spend the extra $400).

BTW, we do have the same remote--Harmony One.

 

[bizmord]

Maybe that's what's wrong with my Yamaha. My room prefers a boring and subtle HK or Marantz.

Like you, I found the initial Yamaha settings too bassy, too. YPAO got the levels wrong. (It, unlike Onkyo's Audyssey, got the distances perfect.) A quick 15 minutes with a SPL meter fixed that.

I hope you find the perfect receiver. Your input on that Denon makes me want to return my A720 for a 3313ci (But, I can't make my wife spend the extra $400).

BTW, we do have the same remote--Harmony One.

Yea, i found that room is very important, BUT ... Bass management with Marantz felt like it was not even close to what Yamaha 2020 or Denon 4311 did. I am still looking to get back the musicality and sound detail that Yamaha gave me during movies. It was just so much more exciting. But ... one can argue that the detail that I heard was due to Yamaha being so high toned and so in a way it overemphasizes the high tones that should not even sound that way, who knows.

Like I said, I am hoping that Yamah RX-V3900 that I got for just $600 does better than Denon 4311 or at least close so that I won't feel the need to pay twice as much to keep Denon.,

 

[allargon]

Yea, i found that room is very important, BUT ... Bass management with Marantz felt like it was not even close to what Yamaha 2020 or Denon 4311 did. I am still looking to get back the musicality and sound detail that Yamaha gave me during movies. It was just so much more exciting. But ... one can argue that the detail that I heard was due to Yamaha being so high toned and so in a way it overemphasizes the high tones that should not even sound that way, who knows.

Like I said, I am hoping that Yamah RX-V3900 that I got for just $600 does better than Denon 4311 or at least close so that I won't feel the need to pay twice as much to keep Denon.,

If you like Yammy so much, maybe I should trade you my A720 for your Denon.

 

[bizmord]

If you like Yammy so much, maybe I should trade you my A720 for your Denon.

no thank you. Now .... if you owned a A3010 or A3020 .... that's a diff story, and even then ... like I said, was not too crazy about TV sound for Yamaha RX-A2020.