GoldenEar Forcefield 3 Review and Dual Sub Question

[uhmeebuh]

ForceField 3 Subwoofer Review

I have the GoldenEar Aon 2 which I think are fantastic (GoldenEar Aon2 Bookshelf Review) like to have my speakers match when possible but it isn't needed when it comes to subs. I decided for $499 I would give the GoldenEar ForceField 3 sub a try given it's *reported* frequency range and wattage. I'm well aware of the Def Tech and, by extension, GoldenEar spec issues so we don't need to cover that here. I care less about specs and more about what works and sounds good. I haven't had a passive radiator sub before so I wanted to give it a go.

I set the crossover point at 60 Hz on both the receiver and sub itself. "Volume" was set to 3 of 10 and is quite noticeable in the room. I played with location and direction without much of a difference (which I think support my thoughts below).

For it's size it is quite impressive but it just doesn't pressurize the room and is a bit boomy (maybe thats a PR trait?). My primary issue is around how different the bass is at different seating positions. Admittedly, my couch is 14 feet wide but it wasn't a problem for my ML Dynamo with 360 watts. I wonder how much it has to do with frequency length due to the 8" speaker size. It can do it all well but nothing great and it is tough to beat for the price.​

Recommendation Needed
So, my low-frequency experts, given what I've said above, do I:

1) Get a second sub and place one between each towers and cabinet (pic below)? I understand a 2nd sub is generally recommended but I worry about them cancelling each other out (but maybe I shouldn't worry about that). I don't have much space to work with between the towers and don't want to keep spreading the L and R channels out. But if it sounds good it's really only another 6"-8" total.

-or-

2) Get a larger sub in the same corner to leverage the corner location?​

I like the idea of dual subs and my Marantz supports it but if it doesn't sound good and address the problem I'll just get a larger sub and be done...

Your thoughts appreciated!

Pic of setup and potential dual sub placement

A few diagrams that might be helpful to answer the question....

Current setup

Dual Subs Option 1

Dual Subs Option 2 (probably not optimal)

 

[slipperybidness]

I set the crossover point at 60 Hz on both the receiver and sub itself.

I wonder how much it has to do with frequency length due to the 8" speaker size. It can do it all well but nothing great and it is tough to beat for the price.
​

1) You don't need or want to set the crossovers at the sub AND the reciever. Pick one or the other, probably use the receiver to set crossover and either defeat the sub crossover or turn it to the highest freq setting available.

2) I believe that you are confused (or using confusing laguage) when you say "frequency length due to 8" speaker". Frequency is cycles/second (not a length associated with frequency). However, each frequency will have a wavelength associated with it, but this is a fundamental concept and will not change depending on driver size.

 

[uhmeebuh]

1) You don't need or want to set the crossovers at the sub AND the reciever. Pick one or the other, probably use the receiver to set crossover and either defeat the sub crossover or turn it to the highest freq setting available.

2) I believe that you are confused (or using confusing laguage) when you say "frequency length due to 8" speaker". Frequency is cycles/second (not a length associated with frequency). However, each frequency will have a wavelength associated with it, but this is a fundamental concept and will not change depending on driver size.

Thanks for the education Slippery! It's why I'm here...

1) I understood (perhaps incorrectly) that the crossover on the AVR would send the frequencies under the setting to the sub. So, setting the sub above that set point wouldn't produce anything extra since those frequencies wouldn't be coming through. So, it would only be a problem if my sub was set lower than the AVR crossover point.

2) Ahhh - I see! So, location from the sub based on the frequency length (which varies by the Hz) will determine how much bass you "hear".

If my comment is correct, based on the diagrams above, would it be better to have two subs on the right to help smooth out response? Or two up front?

Thanks!

 

[slipperybidness]

Thanks for the education Slippery! It's why I'm here...

1) I understood (perhaps incorrectly) that the crossover on the AVR would send the frequencies under the setting to the sub. So, setting the sub above that set point wouldn't produce anything extra since those frequencies wouldn't be coming through. So, it would only be a problem if my sub was set lower than the AVR crossover point.

2) Ahhh - I see! So, location from the sub based on the frequency length (which varies by the Hz) will determine how much bass you "hear".

If my comment is correct, based on the diagrams above, would it be better to have two subs on the right to help smooth out response? Or two up front?

Thanks!

1) Sounds like you got the idea here. Don't want to crossover a crossed-over signal. There are some threads/articles on the topic if you search around. Your original post sounded like you had double-crossover going on.

2) You're pointed in the right direction here now too. It's the distance and the constructive / destructive interference of the sound waves as they hit that given distance (read up on wave theory of physics).

3) As far as dual subs, I never tried it so I'll let someone that knows about such matters address the issue.

 

[j_garcia]

There's already plenty here about calibrating and using dual subs, like right at the top of this forum. Unless the two are similar in performance, most recommend using identical subs for duals, as calibrating two different subs is a little more complicated and you are somewhat limited by the lesser of the two subs.

The "length" of the frequencies does not change with the size of the driver, what you are hearing are the ROOM MODES based on the location of the second sub.

1) I understood (perhaps incorrectly) that the crossover on the AVR would send the frequencies under the setting to the sub. So, setting the sub above that set point wouldn't produce anything extra since those frequencies wouldn't be coming through. So, it would only be a problem if my sub was set lower than the AVR crossover point.

You have to set it high enough that they don't combine, otherwise they will and you will get a super steep roll off, something you don't always want. That's why the typical recommendation is to set it as high as it goes if it does not have a secondary input that bypasses it completely.

 

[uhmeebuh]

There's already plenty here about calibrating and using dual subs, like right at the top of this forum. Unless the two are similar in performance, most recommend using identical subs for duals, as calibrating two different subs is a little more complicated and you are somewhat limited by the lesser of the two subs.

The "length" of the frequencies does not change with the size of the driver, what you are hearing are the ROOM MODES based on the location of the second sub.



You have to set it high enough that they don't combine, otherwise they will and you will get a super steep roll off, something you don't always want. That's why the typical recommendation is to set it as high as it goes if it does not have a secondary input that bypasses it completely.

Thanks J Garcia!

I've read here (and one a few other forums) about dual sub setups but none of them address the option with two subs on one side of the listening room. None of them recommend it but I can't tell if it's a horrible idea or just not optimal...any insight or specific links I missed? All my searching hasn't provided any clarity - yet!

 

[slipperybidness]

Thanks J Garcia!

I've read here (and one a few other forums) about dual sub setups but none of them address the option with two subs on one side of the listening room. None of them recommend it but I can't tell if it's a horrible idea or just not optimal...any insight or specific links I missed? All my searching hasn't provided any clarity - yet!

You just can't beat in-home placement trial and error and measurements, regardless of advice, its the real world performance that is important.

 

[j_garcia]

Look in this thread as I mentioned before:

Home Theater Multiple Subwoofer Set-Up & Calibration Guide | Audioholics

At the bottom of the first page you will see "SEE ALSO" with links to multiple articles on calibration and placement tips. Those are the best place to start.

 

[uhmeebuh]

Thanks again JGarcia.

I realized that my previous pics aren't visible and certainly don't help me get my question across. So, a few pics below...

I did read those links (more than once!) and none of these examples have both subs on one side of the room. Let alone a room with one side open. So, I do understand the concepts contained within and agree with slippy that I need to test it in-home. My challenge is that many of the subs I want don't have a return policy so it's hard to say if it'll work. So, I'm trying to avoid headache, earache, and heartache with my selection. But I may still be missing something in those links, and if I am, I'm sorry!

Given my thoughts above, do you (or anyone else) have a recommendation for or against two subs on the same side of a room opposite an open end? Will it address my problem or make the right side a haze of bass?

Or maybe I just stick with one sub (given my current placement options) and upgrade to a higher quality and more powerful sub? Not sure...

Thanks for your thoughts and consideration!

Current Setup

Option 1 - Dual Subs on front wall

Option 2 - Dual subs on right corners

 

[shadyJ]

I would go for option two. I would also get rid of the Golden Ear sub, you don't want to run that thing with something with a different performance profile. Outlaw Audio has a wireless adapter that they sell with their subs at big discount, you might check out either the LFM-1 EX or the Plus. Either of those will be far more powerful than the Golden Ear sub. There is also the Hsu ULS-15, it's more expensive but smaller than the Outlaw subs, it will pack a punch too, again much greater than the Golden Ear sub. It has a wireless adapter built in. There is a $50 discount on those at the moment.