Denon AVR-X3000; AVR-X4000 IN-Command Receivers

[Cliff_is]

That X4000 is a beast of a receiver at its price point.

I'm very much looking forward to the full review!

We were the first people in the world to get the X4000.

Shipped directly from China.

Review is coming up in short order.

And there are features not mentioned anywhere in our preview or this forum thread (so far) that Denon has never had in any receiver, ever.......

 

[panteragstk]

We were the first people in the world to get the X4000.

Shipped directly from China.

Review is coming up in short order.

And there are features not mentioned anywhere in our preview or this forum thread (so far) that Denon has never had in any receiver, ever.......

Ooohhhh very interesting.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not just that. The x4000 doesn't have the ability to run a full 11.1 system (for those that want to) other than that, what you said.

Great point, for those who intend to run 11.1 or 11.2, even per ADTG's stated criteria of using the preamp mode only, the 4000 cannot do it. Plus the option to use the AVR to power the 8 surround channel is a bonus. 4520+something like a XPA-3 or XPA-5 is a relatively affordable way to enjoy 11.2.

Correction - according to the Denon X4000 owner's manual, the X4000 can pre-out 11.2 CH (main zone preamp output 11.2CH (discrete LFE).

http://usa.denon.com/us/product/pages/ProductDetail.aspx?FileName=DocumentMaster/US/Owners Manual - English_AVR-X4000.pdf#page24

http://usa.denon.com/us/product/pages/productlanding.aspx?catid=2011incommandreceivers(denonna)&catalog=

 

[Adam]

Correction - according to the Denon website, the X4000 can pre-out 11.2 CH

I thought the back panel would have made that pretty obvious.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not just that. The x4000 doesn't have the ability to run a full 11.1 system (for those that want to) other than that, what you said.

Great point, for those who intend to run 11.1 or 11.2, even per ADTG's stated criteria of using the preamp mode only, the 4000 cannot do it. Plus the option to use the AVR to power the 8 surround channel is a bonus. 4520+something like a XPA-3 or XPA-5 is a relatively affordable way to enjoy 11.2.

I thought the back panel would have made that pretty obvious.

Well...... Hmm ...... Yeah .......... About that ........... That would have been too easy ........ And hmm ...... We like to make it more difficult because ..... It's not like a picture is really worth a thousand words or anything like that...

 

[panteragstk]

Correction - according to the Denon X4000 owner's manual, the X4000 can pre-out 11.2 CH (main zone preamp output 11.2CH (discrete LFE).

http://usa.denon.com/us/product/pages/ProductDetail.aspx?FileName=DocumentMaster/US/Owners Manual - English_AVR-X4000.pdf#page24

A/V Solutions | IN-Command Receivers, Audio Video Receivers | Denon

Not finding that in the manual. All I can find is "connecting 11.1 speakers channel speakers". And the entry in the manual that states "9.1ch(SB/FH/FW) : Setting to use a maximum 9.1 channel speakersystem by using a combination of the unit’s
7-channel built-in amp with an external power amp
connected to a set of 2-channel speakers." No mention of 11.1 that I found. That's why I was disappointed. If I'm missing something, please point it out. (your link just had me re-download the manual.) You second link even says "7 Channel Amplification with 9.2 channel processing"

I thought the back panel would have made that pretty obvious.

Putting the connectors on the back panel is one thing, enabling them to work all at once is another. Unless I'm missing something or the manual is very misleading, I think this thing is limited to 9.1. Pretty stupid that they would do that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not finding that in the manual. All I can find is "connecting 11.1 speakers channel speakers". And the entry in the manual that states "9.1ch(SB/FH/FW) : Setting to use a maximum 9.1 channel speakersystem by using a combination of the unit’s
7-channel built-in amp with an external power amp
connected to a set of 2-channel speakers." No mention of 11.1 that I found. That's why I was disappointed. If I'm missing something, please point it out. (your link just had me re-download the manual.) You second link even says "7 Channel Amplification with 9.2 channel processing"

Putting the connectors on the back panel is one thing, enabling them to work all at once is another. Unless I'm missing something or the manual is very misleading, I think this thing is limited to 9.1. Pretty stupid that they would do that.

You realize DENON has 10 year old boys writing their manuals ?

Fact is, they have among the worst manuals in the world.

Why would it have 11.2 pre-outs if it can only output 9.1 ?

For preamp output, it has

1) Front L, 2) Front R, 3) Center, 4) Surround L, 5) Surround Right, 6) Surround Back L, 7) Surround Back R, 8) Front Height L, 9) Front Height R, 10) Front Wide L, 11) Front Wide R, Sub1, Sub2.

So it can output 11.2 Ch.

 

[panteragstk]

You realize DENON has 10 year old boys writing their manuals ?

Fact is, they have among the worst manuals in the world.

Why would it have 11.2 pre-outs if it can only output 9.1 ?

For preamp output, it has

1) Front L, 2) Front R, 3) Center, 4) Surround L, 5) Surround Right, 6) Surround Back L, 7) Surround Back R, 8) Front Height L, 9) Front Height R, 10) Front Wide L, 11) Front Wide R, Sub1, Sub2.

So it can output 11.2 Ch.

I get that it has the pre-outs, but I wouldn't put it past them to limit it to 9.1. I do agree that the manuals are pretty useless. I guess we'll have to wait for the review. If it can do 11.2 then it'll be at the top of my list to upgrade from the 809.

 

[Cygnus]

Not only are their manuals terrible, but their GUI texts aren't much better. Thankfully their equipment is top notch

 

[PENG]

Putting the connectors on the back panel is one thing, enabling them to work all at once is another. Unless I'm missing something or the manual is very misleading, I think this thing is limited to 9.1. Pretty stupid that they would do that.

That is also my understanding, everywhere I look it says 9.1 processing, only the 4311 and 4520 says 11.2 processing. They included 11.2 pre outs just for convenience. Like my AV7005, it also provides 11.2 preouts, but can only output/process 7.1 the extra ones allow you to connect all of them to external amps so you don't have to switch the interconnects and you can select between the surr back, front H and W by using the amp assign menu. The 4000 allows for 9.2 so you can choose two of surr back, front H and front W, that's actually pretty good, being a truly 9.1 or 9.2 (not sure yet) at their price point.

 

[PENG]

Why would it have 11.2 pre-outs if it can only output 9.1 ?

So you don't have to switch interconnect cables around when you want to select between the height and width channels. It is like those extra speaker terminals, for this and many AVRs, they are not additional amp channels, but they can be assigned to the unused amp channels. In this case, you assign the unused pre-amp channels, instead of amp channels, but same principle.

I wish you were right, as that would make the 4000 unique in being a true 11.X 4K and XT32 unit, but I highly doubt that. As bad as the way the manual is, it is still clear enough that it really is 9.1/2 with 11.2 preouts. Again, 9.2 or even 9.1 is a good enough deal for practically minded people.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So you don't have to switch interconnect cables around when you want to select between the height and width channels. It is like those extra speaker terminals, for this and many AVRs, they are not additional amp channels, but they can be assigned to the unused amp channels. In this case, you assign the unused pre-amp channels, instead of amp channels, but same principle.

I wish you were right, as that would make the 4000 unique in being a true 11.X 4K and XT32 unit, but I highly doubt that. As bad as the way the manual is, it is still clear enough that it really is 9.1/2 with 11.2 preouts. Again, 9.2 or even 9.1 is a good enough deal for practically minded people.

If you look in the online manual, it shows a speaker connection picture with all 11 speakers + 2 subs. That's why I'm thinking they mean 11 actual speakers (height + width), not just either Heights or Widths. Otherwise, I think they would show only 9 speakers.

"Place the FRONT HEIGHT left and right speakers just outside of the front left and right speakers. Mount them as close to the ceiling as possible and aim them towards the main listening
position.

Place the FRONT WIDE left and right speakers outside of the front left and right speakers so that there is an equal distance between all front speakers."


• When “Assign Mode” (page 181) setting is “7.1ch (SB/FH/FW)” or
“9.1ch (SB/FH/FW)”, you can make the “Front Height” setting.

• When “Assign Mode” (page 181) setting is “7.1ch (SB/FH/FW)” or
“9.1ch (SB/FH/FW)”, you can make the “Front Wide” setting.

It didn't say you can either use Front Height or Front Width, but not both.

Anyway, we'll see when it is reviewed.

 

[PENG]

If you look in the online manual, it shows a speaker connection picture with all 11 speakers + 2 subs. That's why I'm thinking they mean 11 actual speakers (height + width), not just either Heights or Widths. Otherwise, I think they would show only 9 speakers.

"Place the FRONT HEIGHT left and right speakers just outside of the front left and right speakers. Mount them as close to the ceiling as possible and aim them towards the main listening
position.

Place the FRONT WIDE left and right speakers outside of the front left and right speakers so that there is an equal distance between all front speakers."


• When “Assign Mode” (page 181) setting is “7.1ch (SB/FH/FW)” or
“9.1ch (SB/FH/FW)”, you can make the “Front Height” setting.

• When “Assign Mode” (page 181) setting is “7.1ch (SB/FH/FW)” or
“9.1ch (SB/FH/FW)”, you can make the “Front Wide” setting.

It didn't say you can either use Front Height or Front Width, but not both.

Anyway, we'll see when it is reviewed.

Sure, let's just wait, and I hope you are right, just hope....

 

[PENG]

It didn't say you can either use Front Height or Front Width, but not both.

I noticed that, I think you can use both but then not with surr back, something like that anyway. By the way, to be clear we are talking about 9.1 discrete, not anything like 11.2 MCH Stereo. I can't wait for a thorough review on this thing. It really looks like a winner, for your 4th, or 5th? system?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I noticed that, I think you can use both but then not with surr back, something like that anyway. By the way, to be clear we are talking about 9.1 discrete, not anything like 11.2 MCH Stereo. I can't wait for a thorough review on this thing. It really looks like a winner, for your 4th, or 5th? system?

Well, as long as my 3312 continues to work great, I won't be buying anymore AVR in this current house

Unless we build a bigger house with a lot more rooms for me to play with.

And I hope both my 5308 & AVP-A1 will last forever.

 

[SaviorMachine]

WOW. That X4000 makes a persuasive case...

 

[Carminus]

We were the first people in the world to get the X4000.

Shipped directly from China.

Review is coming up in short order.

And there are features not mentioned anywhere in our preview or this forum thread (so far) that Denon has never had in any receiver, ever.......

This?

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[asere]

Denon x4000

I do not doubt the x4000 is a very nice receiver however for being a powerful avr it is really not heavy.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

I do not doubt the x4000 is a very nice receiver however for being a powerful avr it is really not heavy.

Yes, they could certainly do themselves a favor by creating some marketing with a brief comment of how the weight was kept down by design, not by omission of performance essential parts...if that is the case.

 

[PENG]

Yes, they could certainly do themselves a favor by creating some marketing with a brief comment of how the weight was kept down by design, not by omission of performance essential parts...if that is the case.

Excellent point, until they do, I would guess that they use more Aluminum, plastic, minimize enclosure size, and customer designed transformers for a higher VA to lbs ratio etc. Their lab measurements from various reviews including HTM, HCC, SV certainly show they consistently beat the heavier Onkyo, NAD and others in terms of power output under the same test conditions.