Outlaw 975 Pre-pro

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Wow, for $549 MSRP the little Outlaw pre-pro has superb measurements!

From HTM: -0.18dB/-0.06dB 20Hz-20kHz, 0.02% THD, -91.28dB LR XTalk, -93.81dB RL XTalk, -121.85dB SNR.

Those numbers look like a Cary Audio, Classe, $10K Bryston SP3, or $7.5K Denon AVP-A1HDCI !

4 HDMI, DTS-HD MA/ TrueHD, No Room Correction/EQ/DSP, and awesome measurements!

Pair this w/ an Outlaw amp and it's a big WINNER in my book!

But although I think it's a cool alternative for those who seek separates, I would still personally just get an AVR.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Except for the remote I'm pretty happy with mine. As I've posted before, the remote earns a D- when I'm in a good mood, an F when I'm not.

The 975 pairs up well with the ATI AT602, although the output level when fed by my Sony BD player leaves a little to be desired; it's fine with other sources. Nonetheless, overall the 975 is a very good performer in both audio and video, and I intend to use it in my video system until it's obsolete. It looks good too.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Except for the remote I'm pretty happy with mine. As I've posted before, the remote earns a D- when I'm in a good mood, an F when I'm not.

The 975 pairs up well with the ATI AT602, although the output level when fed by my Sony BD player leaves a little to be desired; it's fine with other sources. Nonetheless, overall the 975 is a very good performer in both audio and video, and I intend to use it in my video system until it's obsolete. It looks good too.

The 975 is like a minimalist/ purist type of pre-pro, lacking RC/EQ/DSP just like the Cary Audio Cinema11, Bryston SP3, & Rotel pre-pro. Neat little thing. I was a bit surprised w/ the great measurements.

 

[Irvrobinson]

It also takes up very little space on a shelf, unlike an AVR, which needs ventilation. I've got the 975 sandwiched between the Comcast box on the bottom and the Sony BD sitting on top of it. Try that with an AVR only if you want it to overheat.

The 975 + ATI602 visibly outperformed my old Sony AVR on HDMI video, and the JBL Northridge speakers are now dead quiet, which they weren't with the Sony. They hissed a little, and you know how I hate that. Overall the 975 + ATI602 is a very cool looking and sounding 2.0 HT system for only $849. You can't beat that with a stick.

 

[ahblaza]

So IRV, are you reco'ing the 975? I've been looking at this for some time now, I really like the minimalist design and as most know I'm not a big fan of Audyssey. You seem to like it for two channel (2.1) how about for a full blown 7.2 rig, seriously? The BD output level has me a bit concerned.
Thanks and Cheers Jeff

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The 975...although the output level when fed by my Sony BD player leaves a little to be desired

Can you not increase the Source Level (separate from Speaker Channel Level) on the 975? I know Denon/Marantz AVR can individually change the source level.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Can you not increase the Source Level (separate from Speaker Channel Level) on the 975? I know Denon/Marantz AVR can individually change the source level.

Not to my knowledge.

 

[Irvrobinson]

So IRV, are you reco'ing the 975? I've been looking at this for some time now, I really like the minimalist design and as most know I'm not a big fan of Audyssey. You seem to like it for two channel (2.1) how about for a full blown 7.2 rig, seriously? The BD output level has me a bit concerned.
Thanks and Cheers Jeff

Yes, I am heartily recommending it, with the caveats about the remote, especially the remote, and the possible output level limitation. Since you mention 7.2 it should be noted that the 975 only supports 7.1, but if you can daisy-chain powered subs an effective 7.2 should work. Of course, all of this pre-supposes that you don't need balanced outputs.

The output level problem could probably be further mitigated with an amp that has 32db+ of gain, which is odd since the Outlaw amps typically have 28db of gain, like my AT602. You would think 28db amps would be their design center. Fortunately Outlaw has a 30-day return policy, so you can plug it in to your system and see if the output level limitation is a factor for you. The 975 is so small and light that return shipping is easy. This isn't like RichB with that 122lb ATI amp to contend with.

 

[ahblaza]

Can you not increase the Source Level (separate from Speaker Channel Level) on the 975? I know Denon/Marantz AVR can individually change the source level.

With Onkyo it's intellivolume, you can raise any input source.

 

[ahblaza]

Yes, I am heartily recommending it, with the caveats about the remote, especially the remote, and the possible output level limitation. Since you mention 7.2 it should be noted that the 975 only supports 7.1, but if you can daisy-chain powered subs an effective 7.2 should work. Of course, all of this pre-supposes that you don't need balanced outputs.

The output level problem could probably be further mitigated with an amp that has 32db+ of gain, which is odd since the Outlaw amps typically have 28db of gain, like my AT602. You would think 28db amps would be their design center. Fortunately Outlaw has a 30-day return policy, so you can plug it in to your system and see if the output level limitation is a factor for you. The 975 is so small and light that return shipping is easy. This isn't like RichB with that 122lb ATI amp to contend with.

No problem with the subs and no balanced inputs to be concerned about. I do have amps with 32dB gain structure as well. The remote can be tolerated, I'm dealing with the Panny BD500 remote, well not really, I've substituted with the Panny BD85 remote. So I take it that's a reco then? Thanks IRV.
Cheers Jeff

 

[Irvrobinson]

Yup. The 975 sounds like a match for you.

 

[TLS Guy]

Darn it! I missed that one. I think I would much rather have had that than the Marantz 7701, I bought for our Eagan residence. That is just the sort of unit required. You don't need a huge box for a preamp.

Receivers are a total nonsense, a huge box with a ton of nasty, and yes very nasty, power amps crammed in.

That has a nice neat profile and nice beefy power amps can be place out of site. That makes for a nice and neat installation. That is the way all system should be that have passive crossovers in their speakers.

What exactly are the problems with the remote?

 

[Irvrobinson]

What exactly are the problems with the remote?

I use the Outlaw remote for three primary functions:

1. Turn the system on and off. For this the remote is okay, with multi-device turn-on/off features, and separate on and off buttons are positioned at the top of the right half of the remote.

2. Adjust volume. Still okay. The volume buttons are large, labelled and back-lit, and in a central position.

3. Change sources. Here is where the Outlaw remote is terrible. The source selection feature is a secondary function on the buttons, so even though the buttons are back-lit, the source names are not the labels on the buttons, they are printed in a gray font on the black case surface of the remote. The relevant buttons you need for source switching are embedded in a 4x6 button array on two different rows, so you really need to see the button labels to switch the input. My eyes aren't what they used to be, and I literally can't see the labels without a relatively bright light.

The infrared transmitter power is also weaker than one would expect. You've got to aim the remote at the 975 with more precision than with any other remote I have, and the distance seems more limited.

 

[TLS Guy]

I use the Outlaw remote for three primary functions:

1. Turn the system on and off. For this the remote is okay, with multi-device turn-on/off features, and separate on and off buttons are positioned at the top of the right half of the remote.

2. Adjust volume. Still okay. The volume buttons are large, labelled and back-lit, and in a central position.

3. Change sources. Here is where the Outlaw remote is terrible. The source selection feature is a secondary function on the buttons, so even though the buttons are back-lit, the source names are not the labels on the buttons, they are printed in a gray font on the black case surface of the remote. The relevant buttons you need for source switching are embedded in a 4x6 button array on two different rows, so you really need to see the button labels to switch the input. My eyes aren't what they used to be, and I literally can't see the labels without a relatively bright light.

The infrared transmitter power is also weaker than one would expect. You've got aim the remote at the 975 with more precision than with any other remote I have, and the distance seems more limited.

Well that is a pretty bad rap on that remote. They need to fix that.

 

[Irvrobinson]

That is just the sort of unit required. You don't need a huge box for a preamp.

Receivers are a total nonsense, a huge box with a ton of nasty, and yes very nasty, power amps crammed in.

That has a nice neat profile and nice beefy power amps can be place out of site. That makes for a nice and neat installation. That is the way all system should be that have passive crossovers in their speakers.

Very well said, IMO. ADTG will disagree, AVR fan-boy that he is.

 

[fuzz092888]

Well that is a pretty bad rap on that remote. They need to fix that.

They are working on a new remote that will ship with all units once it is finished and will be shipped to all those who have already ordered.

 

[Irvrobinson]

They are working on a new remote that will ship with all units once it is finished and will be shipped to all those who have already ordered.

I am talking about the new remote. The temporary little one is actually easier to read.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Very well said, IMO. ADTG will disagree, AVR fan-boy that he is.

Well, it's just because even a $300 AVR has AirPlay, etc. And for most "casual" non-serious low-volume systems, even the amps inside these AVR are sufficient. It's that lazy leisure easy feeling setting in.

And I can use my iPad & iPhone to CONTROL my Denon...

But as I've said all along, I love the idea of a "purist" pre-pro w/ no room correction, DSP, or EQ to corrupt my sound.

And the Crosstalk of -93dB & SNR of -123dB is the icing on the cake for me.

With that said, I am not sure if any pre-pro + speaker + sub combo can beat my AVR-5308 + Orion + RBH right now.

 

[fuzz092888]

I am talking about the new remote. The temporary little one is actually easier to read.

Yikes, all that time on a new remote and it's not perfect? Sounds about right.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Wait, how did I miss this? The $600 Emotiva pre-pro has even better measurements than the $10,000 Bryston:

Emotiva UMC-200 Preamp/Processor HT Labs Measures | Home Theater
"Response from the multichannel input to the main output measures –0.20 dB at 10 Hz, –0.05 dB at 20 Hz, –0.02 dB at 20 kHz, and –0.12 dB at 50 kHz. The analog THD+N was less than 0.016 percent at 1 kHz with a 100-millivolt input and the volume control set to 65.5. Crosstalk with a 100-mV input was –93.91 dB left to right and –92.23 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with “A” weighting was –127.94 dBrA."

.........

$10,000 Bryston SP3:
Bryston SP3 Surround Processor and 9B SST² Amplifier HT Labs Measures | Home Theater
"Response from the multichannel input to the main output measures –0.05 dB at 10 Hz, –0.01 dB at 20 Hz, –0.06 dB at 20 kHz, and –0.42 dB at 50 kHz. The analog THD+N was less than 0.022 percent at 1 kHz with a 100-millivolt input and the volume control set to +2.5. Crosstalk with a 100-mV input was –92.92 dB left to right and –93.44 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with “A” weighting was –121.59 dBrA."