Can you hear a difference in Sound between Audio Amplifiers?

[RichB]

I liked the Outlaw M2200 mono-blocks when I auditioned them at my house.
They could greatly reduce the weight and/or increase power.
I wonder why more manufactures don't implememnt them?

- Rich

The intro of the linked article addresses that:

I read that. I doubt it is more complicated than building a Pure Balanced amp.
You only design it once.

- Rich

 

[Goliath]

I don't really understand the Audioholics article on slew rate. Can anyone explain it to a laymen? So slew rate does not determine amplifier speed? It's just an audiophile term or does it have real relevance in amp design?

 

[3db]

Slew rate is not an audiophile term. I've already posted an explanation of it and provided a link with some reading material. Just sayin.

 

[Steve81]

I don't really understand the Audioholics article on slew rate. Can anyone explain it to a laymen?

In and of itself, slew rate is related to power bandwidth, specifically the ability of the amplifier to deliver high voltage at a high frequency.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I don't really understand the Audioholics article on slew rate. Can anyone explain it to a laymen? So slew rate does not determine amplifier speed? It's just an audiophile term or does it have real relevance in amp design?

Slew does indeed determine "amplifier speed", but what the article points out is that almost any solid state amplifier has a slew rate more than sufficient to cover going from dead silent to rated power at 20KHz, and that the audiophile notion of amplifier speed is most likely BS.

 

[M Code]

I wouldn't call it BS..
It is just another specification to help define/measure an amplifier performance capability/specifications..
A single specification doesn't determine an amplifier's sonic capability.. A well-designed amplifier has each circuit optimized for its contribution. An interesting fall-out regarding sonics is that what often is heard is not the amplifier misbehaving but rather its protection circuit trying to do its job..
Either by limiting current, input or output voltage swing, load line filtering.
This point is easily proven by defeating the protection circuitry and noting how an amplifier opens up...

Just my $0.02...

 

[PENG]

Talks about "opens up" is just another hearsay BS, unless it is quantified/defined, just my 0.01C. I doubt most receivers in the $1K price range would have trouble with slew rate to the point it becomes easily audible. There is no such thing as square music wave anyway, and all periodic waveforms are the combined waveform of harmonics. Fourier had it figured out more than a hundred years ago. As long the total harmonic distortion is low enough I wouldn't worry about the slew rate spec too much.

 

[dpattillo]

I don't know about hifi home amps I haven't hear enough, but I can hear the difference between guitar amps without a doubt. I think it may have more to do with their characteristics while being over driven I can also hear the difference between tube types. My friend has an Egnator amp which switches between EL34's and 6V6's and there is a difference in clean tone, it's not much but I think it's there. I can only assume this will hold true for home audio equipment that is voiced for certain characteristics.

 

[Grador]

Guitar amps are a whole different breed. They are often intentionally "poorly" designed to have a sound of their own.

 

[dpattillo]

Guitar amps are a whole different breed. They are often intentionally "poorly" designed to have a sound of their own.

So you don't believe hifi amp designers engineer amps to "color" the signal being amplified to distinguish there product from other designers? Or maybe this would be considered "bad" design since the true goal should be to create an amplified output that mirrors the source as closely as possible.

 

[Grador]

So you don't believe hifi amp designers engineer amps to "color" the signal being amplified to distinguish there product from other designers? Or maybe this would be considered "bad" design since the true goal should be to create an amplified output that mirrors the source as closely as possible.

I would consider it bad design if hifi amps purposely added coloration.

A guitar amp is used for content creation. You chose your equipment to make the sound you want to make. Hifi equipments job is to as faithfully as possible reproduce the sound choices the content creator have made.

 

[dpattillo]

Why would any sane person spend any more money than necessary to purchase an amplifier that provided no difference in sound quality or reliability for a given output wattage (actual not rated)?

 

[ski2xblack]

So you don't believe hifi amp designers engineer amps to "color" the signal being amplified to distinguish there product from other designers? Or maybe this would be considered "bad" design since the true goal should be to create an amplified output that mirrors the source as closely as possible.

Yes, and yes, but some designers do purposefully deviate from the rules. Ever hear of Bob Carver?

Why would any sane person spend any more money than necessary to purchase an amplifier that provided no difference in sound quality or reliability for a given output wattage (actual not rated)?

A very good question to ask yourself if you start to covet some blingy amp. Think function first, then fashion. If you can afford a more fashionable amp, congrats on your success.

 

[RichB]

Why would any sane person spend any more money than necessary to purchase an amplifier that provided no difference in sound quality or reliability for a given output wattage (actual not rated)?

Because it looks better and they want one amp with no fans.
The other reason is it is very difficult to determine the above.

- Rich

 

[Grador]

Why would any sane person spend any more money than necessary to purchase an amplifier that provided no difference in sound quality or reliability for a given output wattage (actual not rated)?

Well here's a hint: there are 52 pages of discussion (argument?) over whether or not designers have been successful in making all amplifiers the same or not.

 

[dpattillo]

A fan would affect sound quality. My point also assumes the same number of channels. If the sound quality was the same then why choose an equally equipped (channels and wattage) expensive Krell or Linn over a moderately priced ATI.

 

[dpattillo]

Well here's a hint: there are 52 pages of discussion (argument?) over whether or not designers have been successful in making all amplifiers the same or not.

I'll have to make it a point to go back and read all 52 pages when I get a couple hours of free time

 

[PENG]

So you don't believe hifi amp designers engineer amps to "color" the signal being amplified to distinguish there product from other designers? Or maybe this would be considered "bad" design since the true goal should be to create an amplified output that mirrors the source as closely as possible.

I will only consider manufacturers who claim their products amplify the signal without coloring it in any way, shape or form.

 

[dpattillo]

Yes, and yes, but some designers do purposefully deviate from the rules. Ever hear of Bob Carver?



A very good question to ask yourself if you start to covet some blingy amp. Think function first, then fashion. If you can afford a more fashionable amp, congrats on your success.
[/COLOR]

Yes some of the high end gear does look sexy and if money was no object I'd probably jump on the high end stuff. But alas I have a moderate income and must choose function over form. Woe is me ;(

 

[M Code]

Talks about "opens up" is just another hearsay BS, unless it is quantified/defined, just my 0.01C. I doubt most receivers in the $1K price range would have trouble with slew rate to the point it becomes easily audible. There is no such thing as square music wave anyway, and all periodic waveforms are the combined waveform of harmonics. Fourier had it figured out more than a hundred years ago. As long the total harmonic distortion is low enough I wouldn't worry about the slew rate spec too much.

Not really BS..
If an amplifiers' voltage output swing is altered and/or cut back due to the protection circuitry being activated this is very audible.. Really depends upon the load and reactance seen by the amplifier...
Something in the early audio days of analog that was not as apparent due to a max dynamic range of 80dB...
But with the high bit rate of quality loss-less source material and high dynamic range >110dB, amplifiers can now be pushed and stressed more easily..

Keep in mind...
To differentiate the sonic quality of amplifiers, one needs higher resolution loudspeakers and amplifiers, typically not found in a typical home theater AVR..

Just my $0.02...