Pure Direct vs Stereo

[AcuDefTechGuy]

One thing is for SURE- different processors may have different implementations of the processing.

So a Pure Direct or Stereo or Straight or 2Ch mode of one model or brand may not be exactly the same as another model or brand.

I don't think we can take our own AVRs and apply or generalize to all AVRs.

Some of us think that amps "sound the same". Some of us don't. But I figure all of us can agree that processors can sound differently with different modes.

 

[cpp]

One thing is for SURE- different processors may have different implementations of the processing.

So a Pure Direct or Stereo or Straight or 2Ch mode of one model or brand may not be exactly the same as another model or brand.

I don't think we can take our own AVRs and apply or generalize to all AVRs.

.

yep, different design teams with difference design directions, there is no apples to apples comparison here.

 

[jcunwired]

If I run the 4311 in stereo 2.2, can I keep the speaker time delays calculated in Audyssey enabled and only by-pass the EQ?

I have no idea how one would test to determine whether delay calculations are still applied, nor whether they are a component of Dynamic EQ, but in Audyssey settings you can disable Dynamic EQ.

This has been a great conversation. My Denon 4311 and Philharmonic Audio speakers came at the same time with new HT build and one of the first things I did was experiment with Pure Direct, definitely hearing a difference. Now I know way more than I was curious about thanks to you all.

 

[jcunwired]

It seems like all the parameters (speaker levels, size, XO, distance, sub parameters, etc) set by Audyssey are retained even when you turn Audyssey off and use Stereo 2.2.

Retained yes, but applied no. Correct?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Retained yes, but applied no. Correct?

I believe it's your turn to call Denon.

 

[Grador]

If distancing isn't applied then PD probably won't work out to well for multi-channel. Speaker leveling has to be applied..

Edit: OH OH, just thought of a test for distancing. Set your mains a small distance apart from eachother so that they sound out of phase. Hit PD, and see if they get back together.

 

[Grador]

I can confirm that yamaha PD still uses distancing.

 

[twylight]

on the 4311 pure direct seems to be more of a "push equal load to everything! WARPSPEED!"

I like it. its not like LFE+main distorts the sound...just makes it bang a few DB hot from reference. Pure direct with LFE+main is my favorite for 2 channel. Distance and level is maintained, audyssey is scrapped.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

on the 4311 pure direct seems to be more of a "push equal load to everything! WARPSPEED!"

I like it. its not like LFE+main distorts the sound...just makes it bang a few DB hot from reference. Pure direct with LFE+main is my favorite for 2 channel. Distance and level is maintained, audyssey is scrapped.

WARP SPEED is right.

It's like MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE.

Strap on your seatbelt and enjoy the WARP SPEED RIDE.

I never realized my Orion could kick a$$ with bass like this.

 

[LouiseC]

When I listen to CDs, I like to change my OPPO to pure audio mode and my Marantz receiver to pure direct mode. I like this pure sound a lot - cant go back!

 

[3db]

I can confirm that yamaha PD still uses distancing.

I disagree. PD shuts down all DSP and sends no information to the rear channels.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am also wondering if using a fully balanced preamp & fully balanced amp & lossless audio files also makes a difference?

 

[cpp]

I am also wondering if using a fully balanced preamp & fully balanced amp & lossless audio files also makes a difference?

Lets see we have a fully differential drive amplifier with the ATI amps,

 

[AudioCareer]

Pure Direct does send information to the rear channels. If the source recording has it encoded for the rear channels, such as movies in 5.1 or 7.1, multi-channel SACDs, DVD-A etc.. I have a Yamaha RX-V1900 reciever (use preouts), Rotel RMB-1095 amp, and Energy RC-70's, RC-LCR (centre), RC-R surrounds, and RC-10 (rear surrounds powered by the RX-V1900), ESW-V10 sub and almost always run it in Pure Direct mode. My room is small (12x13x8), carpeted and has some wall treatments. Music sounds more natural. Imaging, detail, and sense of space is better. I even notice some slight improvement when pure direct is in audio only mode! Sadly, unless the the source recording has a LFE track, there will be no subwoofer output. Pure Direct with the Yahmaha treats all the speakers as large, but does allow changes to distance (timing) and signal level.
It makes me want to find a processor that does bass management for 2 channel listening, but sounds as good as the pure direct mode. Anyone have suggestions?
Another cheap upgrade is to find a universal player (oppo would fit the bill, but not cheap) with 2 HDMI outputs so I can always run the Yamaha in pure direct mode with video turned off.
Nice to see that I am not the only one who prefers the sound of pure direct.

 

[Grador]

I disagree. PD shuts down all DSP and sends no information to the rear channels.

Well i can tell you that i've determined experimentally that from an HDMI source individual speaker distancing, lipsink, and multichannel all still function on both of the modern yamaha receivers I have access to.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Pure Direct does send information to the rear channels. If the source recording has it encoded for the rear channels, such as movies in 5.1 or 7.1, multi-channel SACDs, DVD-A etc...

Good point. Pure Direct isn't restricted to 2Ch. PD can be Multi-Channel (DSD-Direct, DVD-A, DTS-HD, TrueHD).

 

[3db]

I am also wondering if using a fully balanced preamp & fully balanced amp & lossless audio files also makes a difference?

Fully balanced will give you peace of mind in a noisey electric/magnetic field environment because it balanced amps offer what they call common mode rejection. Noise appears on both the +ve and -ve inputs and gets cancelled out at the output of the amp stage. This is NOT possible with single ended amps. Balanced amps also allows for longer interconnects because of common mode rejection. However, I've not read anywhere where a balanced amps performs audibly better than their single ended brethren in a noise free environment.

 

[3db]

Well i can tell you that i've determined experimentally that from an HDMI source individual speaker distancing, lipsink, and multichannel all still function on both of the modern yamaha receivers I have access to.

I think you are correct. I just reread the Pure Direct section on my receiver and check out the bolded underlined section. This has been a good thread for me as I'm relearning things I've forgotten.

• When this unit is in the Pure Direct mode, this unit does not
output any video signals at the MONITOR OUT jacks and the
HDMI OUT jack.
• When you set the audio input jack select setting to “AUTO”,
“HDMI”, or “COAX/OPT” (see page 43) and play back the
bitstreams or multi-channel PCM sources, this unit activates the
corresponding decoder.
• The following operations are not possible when this unit is in
the Pure Direct mode:
– switching the sound field program
– displaying the OSD
– adjusting the “SET MENU” parameters (except for speaker
level settings)
– operating video functions (video conversion, etc.)
• The Pure Direct mode is automatically canceled whenever this
unit is turned off.

I also confirmed this with a DVD.

 

[3db]

Pure Direct does send information to the rear channels. If the source recording has it encoded for the rear channels, such as movies in 5.1 or 7.1, multi-channel SACDs, DVD-A etc.. I have a Yamaha RX-V1900 reciever (use preouts), Rotel RMB-1095 amp, and Energy RC-70's, RC-LCR (centre), RC-R surrounds, and RC-10 (rear surrounds powered by the RX-V1900), ESW-V10 sub and almost always run it in Pure Direct mode. My room is small (12x13x8), carpeted and has some wall treatments. Music sounds more natural. Imaging, detail, and sense of space is better. I even notice some slight improvement when pure direct is in audio only mode! Sadly, unless the the source recording has a LFE track, there will be no subwoofer output. Pure Direct with the Yahmaha treats all the speakers as large, but does allow changes to distance (timing) and signal level.
It makes me want to find a processor that does bass management for 2 channel listening, but sounds as good as the pure direct mode. Anyone have suggestions?
Another cheap upgrade is to find a universal player (oppo would fit the bill, but not cheap) with 2 HDMI outputs so I can always run the Yamaha in pure direct mode with video turned off.
Nice to see that I am not the only one who prefers the sound of pure direct.

You could try setting it up in straight mode, turning YPAO off which still allows bass management and saving that to a memory configuration. That is what I'm going to attempt today

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I've not read anywhere where a balanced amps performs audibly better than their single ended brethren in a noise free environment.

Has anyone ever compared PD vs Stereo between a single-ended AVR vs fully balanced pre-pro & fully balanced amp? Probably not.