Serious Debate on Best AVR for me.... Onkyo TX-NR3010 vs Denon AV4250 vs Yamaha RX-A3020BL

[brandonwal79]

I am an TV contractor and do about 20% speaker and home theater install vs TVs. I am not the audiophile I should be or at least do the homework to have a legit opinion on here.

I want to add the Pioneer SC-86 to this list too. And again, the Denon 3313 is an option as well... so any of the brands mid to high end models are up for debate.

I have looked at enough to start narrowing down some of the better AVRs. Without amplification, I wanted to get some opinions on which of the three of these to or the lower models in the lines related, would you recommend for what I have and what I will move into later.

I am going to get the Polk 265-LS fronts with the Polk-255-LS center and the 900-LS for possibly front highs and all surrounds. I still live in a condo, so the area I'm installing in is 15x15 with a kitchen off to the right. We will move into a larger house soon and will have a 20x20 theater room which will be rectangular with the abiltity to frame and sound proof before it's finished.

But for now, I want to build with the larger room in mind and pick the brand and model that anyone can recommend success with field depth, power to get the most out of these speakers, great picture, at least 2 zones and a 2nd hdmi out with 5.1 in the second room would be great, networking is helpful. I'm not a mac guy so android phone app is a plus. My main concern is really just fantastic sound quality and depth.

I know this is a lot but most of my final assessment would be which brand and model I can get for a great price... Has anyone bought from Discrete Sound and Video? Their onkyo AVR's are 30% off NEW in box.. Whats up with that?

Thanks

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think for those Polk speakers, a Denon 3312/3313 is as high as you want to go. Give Electronics Expo a call to negotiate for $600.

I would not spend more than $600 for those Polk speakers.

Why are you buying Polk speakers?

What about KEF, Revel, JBL, Pioneer, NHT, etc?

 

[jinjuku]

ATGF is spot on. Spending way too much on AVR and not enough on speakers. You could seriously move up the sound quality food chain with higher end speakers.

 

[brandonwal79]

Ok, that is good news to hear. Can you please recommend similar in-wall speakers that would be better for the money? The Polk LS speakers I was looking at come in at about $1,400 for 5 in-wall vanishing series speakers. They are the high'er end for polk, and I started in this looking at the Denon 3313 amp or mid level Yamaha... But then you start looking at adjusting your expectations for wattage and HDMI outs, since I have a second monitor with a HDMI switch now that I'd love to remove from the system... I just wanted to make sure to keep the higher AVR models in mind. So I may very well stick to the Sub $1000 AVRs but if you can send some model numbers for better in-wall speakers to look at with the ~$300-400 per speaker, then I can have something to compare to for this situation.

The Onkyo 3010 is only $1500 on Discrete A/V website, which is $2199 retail... or Onkyo 1010 for $1100 from $1,799... So those are interesting to me. Also the Pioneer SC-86 is something I saw. If I go with one of these AVRs then show me some in-wall speakers. I don't really want floor standing speakers since the TV is going to be sunk in wall on an arm, boxed neatly.

Thanks

 

[brandonwal79]

This is why we are called newbies... I can't even find a vendor for Revel.... It looks like the Revel W563 is roughly $350 retail. Is that accurate and if so, are those the fronts you'd recommend? What about center and surround in ceilings for surround and backs....?

thanks

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Check out the KEF Uni-Q speakers.

KEF In Wall Speakers. Free Shipping on all Ci Custom In Wall Speakers.

I don't know about the pricing of Revel in-wall, but if I were doing in-wall, I would get KEF or Revel for sure.

These guys are not authorized, but they have some prices on Revel in-wall.

http://www.digitalcraze.com/Speakers-Subs/In-Wall-Speakers/Revel-84

If I had a $4,000 budget, I would spend about $3,000 on speakers and subwoofers and $1,000 on AVR & accessories.

 

[brandonwal79]

Check out the KEF Uni-Q speakers.

KEF In Wall Speakers. Free Shipping on all Ci Custom In Wall Speakers.

I don't know about the pricing of Revel in-wall, but if I were doing in-wall, I would get KEF or Revel for sure.

These guys are not authorized, but they have some prices on Revel in-wall.

DigitalCraze.com - High End A/V Gear and Appliances

If I had a $4,000 budget, I would spend about $3,000 on speakers and subwoofers and $1,000 on AVR & accessories.

Ok, thanks... let me run this by then. I have a $2000-$4000 max budget. I have a velodyne sub, and some back up subs, so that's good. The polk LS vanishing were tops on a few different sites rating vs klipsch and others... It's about $1500 for those and then possibly the Denon 3313 which I can get around $1000. My only issue is the denon powerful enough? I see the onkyo 1010 is more powerful per channel and THX certified.

Why KEF and/or revel? I need some specifics as they don't show any significant benefit to the layman like me.

This is where I'll get really dumb and you all can laugh and have a good time, but I really just need the schooling and so i'll throw it out there. I installed the bose V35 for a dude and in a demo, it sounded very good. I just want a powerful AVR with a real second zone to play video and some good in wall speakers that will last to my next move. And I want the system to be able to replicate the depth I heard in the V35 though it's just a bose HTIB.... Why NOT POLK LS series?

Thanks ahead of time for the help.
bw

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Ok, thanks... let me run this by then. I have a $2000-$4000 max budget. I have a velodyne sub, and some back up subs, so that's good. The polk LS vanishing were tops on a few different sites rating vs klipsch and others... It's about $1500 for those and then possibly the Denon 3313 which I can get around $1000. My only issue is the denon powerful enough? I see the onkyo 1010 is more powerful per channel and THX certified.

Why KEF and/or revel? I need some specifics as they don't show any significant benefit to the layman like me.

This is where I'll get really dumb and you all can laugh and have a good time, but I really just need the schooling and so i'll throw it out there. I installed the bose V35 for a dude and in a demo, it sounded very good. I just want a powerful AVR with a real second zone to play video and some good in wall speakers that will last to my next move. And I want the system to be able to replicate the depth I heard in the V35 though it's just a bose HTIB.... Why NOT POLK LS series?

Thanks ahead of time for the help.
bw

Others will elaborate, but Revel & KEF are usually more accurate systems. They usually measure better. They are considered high-end and retain their values better.

The Denon 3313 should have plenty of power for these speakers. I would call Electronics Expo and see if they can give you a better price.

 

[M Code]

I think for those Polk speakers, a Denon 3312/3313 is as high as you want to go. Give Electronics Expo a call to negotiate for $600.

I would not spend more than $600 for those Polk speakers.

Why are you buying Polk speakers?

What about KEF, Revel, JBL, Pioneer, NHT, etc?

Be careful...
I would stay clear of Electronic Expo they just filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy...

Juts my $0.02...

 

[brandonwal79]

Thanks for help. I also came across a set of Definitive Tech Pro Monitor 800's white and a 1000 center white with stands. Also got the def tech sub 800 from a client wanting to sell off her gear. I can sell or use, the grills are a little dirty, but I have a 12 inch velodyne and an earthquake sub in rooms, So I don't need another sub. Should I just sell the whole white def tech system ? Or used would you guys just keep for a room down the road?

I have a guy for the denon receiver, he also is pushing the LS polk. I looked at some of the ones you mentioned... thanks

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Be careful...
I would stay clear of Electronic Expo they just filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy...

Juts my $0.02...

Who hasn't filed bankruptcy these days?

As long as they are authorized for the 3 Yr warranty, I wouldn't mind buying a Denon 3312/3313 for $550 delivered.

Vanns is also going through bankruptcy. They are also authorized.

These stores are liquidating and selling at great prices.

 

[brandonwal79]

Hey I see it on both sites for full price. Who are the people to talk to to get a price like that? Are you for refurbs with 3 year warranty or just new in box only? also could you comment on my insistence on the polk in walls winning out over a bunch of others like Klipsch, PSB, Martin Logan, and yamahas? The LS series is suppose to be a very good speaker. The 265-ls in wall also has a nice enclosure, seems like they make a good in wall. I like to have some smarter people show me some better speakers but $1,400 for 5 speakers, that are the vanishing style, clean look, good response, highs 33kHz.... I have great subs so just mids and highs i'm interested and then the denon 3313 you said was good. It seams like a $2200 system with the polks and the denon. thoughts?

 

[brandonwal79]

Hey Acudeftech, I can get the Onkyo 1010 on discrete av for $1,180. Why wouldn't I want that? I can get better speakers down the road, or now.. but isnt' the Onkyo 1010 a solid THX AVR, with 2 HDMI outs and 140w per channel? The denon is only 125? Really my main concern is the denon is 26 lbs, onkyo is 50 lbs... what is that about? I'm not saying it matters, but is there anything to that? Onkyo 1010 is $1800 anywhere else, but discrete has it for $1200. I could afford that and it makes me very interested. I like onkyo. Any reason not to buy it?

 

[3db]

Hey Acudeftech, I can get the Onkyo 1010 on discrete av for $1,180. Why wouldn't I want that? I can get better speakers down the road, or now.. but isnt' the Onkyo 1010 a solid THX AVR, with 2 HDMI outs and 140w per channel? The denon is only 125? Really my main concern is the denon is 26 lbs, onkyo is 50 lbs... what is that about? I'm not saying it matters, but is there anything to that? Onkyo 1010 is $1800 anywhere else, but discrete has it for $1200. I could afford that and it makes me very interested. I like onkyo. Any reason not to buy it?

To be able to hear the differences in power, the Onkyo would have be to rated at 250 Watts per channel for any real listening advantage over the Denon. If it were me, I would choose Denon and stay clear of Onkyo as they have major QC problems and poor customer service. Denons are reliable. If it were up to me, I would also look at Yamaha RX A2020 or A3020 modles despite not having Auddessy. I have an older Yamaha RX-V1800 model with their original YPAO room correction and it works great for me.

 

[panteragstk]

To be able to hear the differences in power, the Onkyo would have be to rated at 250 Watts per channel for any real listening advantage over the Denon. If it were me, I would choose Denon and stay clear of Onkyo as they have major QC problems and poor customer service. Denons are reliable. If it were up to me, I would also look at Yamaha RX A2020 or A3020 modles despite not having Auddessy. I have an older Yamaha RX-V1800 model with their original YPAO room correction and it works great for me.

The Denon models are also more customizable. I like my onkyo, but for the price range of my 809 it should have a few more options I see as glaring omissions. I've never owned Yamaha, but their reliability and customer service are second to none.

Don't put too much into THX. I don't even use any of the THX features on my 809. They honestly don't add all that much.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hey Acudeftech, I can get the Onkyo 1010 on discrete av for $1,180. Why wouldn't I want that? I can get better speakers down the road, or now.. but isnt' the Onkyo 1010 a solid THX AVR, with 2 HDMI outs and 140w per channel? The denon is only 125? Really my main concern is the denon is 26 lbs, onkyo is 50 lbs... what is that about? I'm not saying it matters, but is there anything to that? Onkyo 1010 is $1800 anywhere else, but discrete has it for $1200. I could afford that and it makes me very interested. I like onkyo. Any reason not to buy it?

I've seen new Denon 3312 for $550, 3313 for $800, 4311 for $1225 delivered.

New prices would be higher than open-box. Open-box gets you new 3yr warranty. I would NEVER buy refurb personally. Can't speak for others.

Just call them on the phone and negotiate. Places like Electronics Expo and Vanns are filing for bankruptcy so they can give you the best deal.

I would not buy Onkyo personally due to reliability history, so I would personally not recommend Onkyo to any of my friends & family. But others have bought and love their Onkyo w/o reservation.

 

[brandonwal79]

Ok Denon seems to have the majority of your support. I have the 1913 and it's basic. I was really hoping for some excitement for onkyo but that's ok. I did have one that worked well for many years in 1999 til 2005 when I got my Yamaha that just broke down a few months ago.

But I will look for the 3313 from someone. It's an open box likely a refurb? Many places are using the same language for both....So if i'm getting one refurbed or open box with a 3 year warranty, it's fine then? On ebay I see a few open box and some new in box for $700-800 for the 3313. Isn't that the newest of the models you mentioned?

thanks

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Ok Denon seems to have the majority of your support. I have the 1913 and it's basic. I was really hoping for some excitement for onkyo but that's ok. I did have one that worked well for many years in 1999 til 2005 when I got my Yamaha that just broke down a few months ago.

But I will look for the 3313 from someone. It's an open box likely a refurb? Many places are using the same language for both....So if i'm getting one refurbed or open box with a 3 year warranty, it's fine then? On ebay I see a few open box and some new in box for $700-800 for the 3313. Isn't that the newest of the models you mentioned?

thanks

Open-box is not refurb. It means a store return. Open box gets 3 yr warranty like new. The AVR was never sent to the refurb repair center.

Refurb is refurb. It means the AVR was actually sent to their refurb repair center and then returned to the store. Refurb gets 1 yr warranty, NOT 3 yr.

But always talk to them just in case.

 

[brandonwal79]

cool thanks. I talked to electronic expo and they said they are going to be able drop pricing in a couple weeks when denon drops the retail on it. I might have to wait for that to happen in order to get the 3313 for a sub $800 price new. They also said they are re-negotiating their contract with denon so it's interesting the bankruptcy talk you all are speaking of. Looks like they are trying to get denon back. thanks for the heads up.

Lastly acudeftechguy, though you don't recommend onkyo... do you read up on it's benefits? do you see anything that it is better at than the lower powered and half the size denon 3313..? I feel like someone should be on here giving onkyo some sort of props for a 50 lbs THX AVR that is ranked pretty highly on sites and with nearly perfect user ratings on sites. I'm again just a bum here, but i'm trying to cover all basis. thanks

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

cool thanks. I talked to electronic expo and they said they are going to be able drop pricing in a couple weeks when denon drops the retail on it. I might have to wait for that to happen in order to get the 3313 for a sub $800 price new. They also said they are re-negotiating their contract with denon so it's interesting the bankruptcy talk you all are speaking of. Looks like they are trying to get denon back. thanks for the heads up.

Lastly acudeftechguy, though you don't recommend onkyo... do you read up on it's benefits? do you see anything that it is better at than the lower powered and half the size denon 3313..? I feel like someone should be on here giving onkyo some sort of props for a 50 lbs THX AVR that is ranked pretty highly on sites and with nearly perfect user ratings on sites. I'm again just a bum here, but i'm trying to cover all basis. thanks

I think Onkyo sounds as great as any out there, and they measure as well as any. I think the higher up you go the Onkyo models, the better your odds in terms of reliability, which is the apparent Achilles' heel.

I'm sure the Onkyo fans will give you the benefits.