Can you hear a difference in Sound between Audio Amplifiers?

[PENG]

I really should stay out of this, but I can't help myself.

Below is a quote from a well respected, professional reviewer. To me, it sounds as if he is saying there's a difference in sound between two amps.

"I had a brief chance to directly compare the two in a not so ideal listening environment on their new tower speakers. The sonic differences were subtle (as is the case with all well designed amplifiers operating within their linear region) but interesting to note nonetheless. Overall I found both amplifiers excelled sonically, but felt the XPA-2 was simply more lively and bold while the RPA-2 favored a more delicate presentation with less graininess at low power levels."

He used the word subtle, felt.. A case where I would definitely bet money on him not being able to tell the two amps apart in a simple blind test. Those who claimed hearing day and night difference are the one I would not bet on because they must have X-men like talents.

 

[PENG]

I hear no dynamic compression on Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Morricone. Fabulous I say.

I think you just gave our "enemy" ammunition to use against us - the denial syndrome.

I think I'm in denial too; nothing could possibly sound distorted coming through my system!

I don't believe there is compression in that SACD, it could just be the way the music is. I was just teasing, but I did feel it was not one of those rank high in the sound quality deparment. The music itself and the perfmance are top notch.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't believe there is compression in that SACD, it could just be the way the music is. I was just teasing, but I did feel it was not one of those rank high in the sound quality deparment. The music itself and the perfmance are top notch.

Jared (Monkish) said that Yo-Yo Ma album is really compressed. It probably is. But I am willing to overlook the little things in life.

Just like the subtle little differences in amp sounds.

 

[PENG]

Jared (Monkish) said that Yo-Yo Ma album is really compressed. It probably is. But I am willing to overlook the little things in life.

Just like the subtle little differences in amp sounds.

I thought he just pointed out how low the DR was, didn't recall he said it was compressed but I trust your memory..for what you do you have to have good memory..

 

[cpp]

I think I'm in denial too; nothing could possibly sound distorted coming through my system!

Not sure about that. Just play one of these songs and watch your speakers splinter or it might be your inner brains wishing you hadn't The Top Ten Worst Songs of All Time - Boston.com the worst of the worst

 

[jinjuku]

Therefore, all amps are created equal. QED.

This does not help folks on looking for value decide if they should buy an Emotiva XPA-5 versus an Outlaw 7500? They have similar power ratings. Power ratings are similar but power supplies, capacitance, and output devices are favor the Outlaw. Does that matter?

- Rich

What topologies? Is how I would answer your question.

 

[RichB]

What topologies? Is how I would answer your question.

That's a response, not an answer

- Rich

 

[jinjuku]

That's a response, not an answer

- Rich

It's a reply that should slow someone down and have them re-evaluate what they asked and more importantly why it isn't necessarily a valid question to begin with.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I thought he just pointed out how low the DR was, didn't recall he said it was compressed but I trust your memory..for what you do you have to have good memory..

Good memory where it counts.....

For fun and games and hobbies, I would not trust my memory.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... a well respected, professional reviewer. ...

What does that mean?

 

[RichB]

It's a reply that should slow someone down and have them re-evaluate what they asked and more importantly why it isn't necessarily a valid question to begin with.

I believe you have said all amps sound the same operating within their limits.
I have observed a difference at my home. They were not the same amp class.

I don't know why that is bothering you.

Peace brother,

- Rich

 

[RichB]

What does that mean?

You might find those words in a review on Audioholics

- Rich

 

[PENG]

I believe you have said all amps sound the same operating within their limits.
I have observed a difference at my home. They were not the same amp class.

I don't know why that is bothering you.

Peace brother,

- Rich

In the name of innovation, anything can happen, that's why if you simply ask the question whether amps can sound different, of course they can. For example, if you compare certain (not all) class D amps (e.g. one of Sony's), to a high power class AB (e.g. Emo XPR-2), a low power class A, and/or tube amps such as a 10WX2 Luxman using the not too demanding B&W 800 diamond speakers. In some of those extreme cases, even by including the qualifying statement "operating within their limits", it may not be sufficient.

At the minimum I would add that the amps being compared are designed and built to amplifiy the input signal with total distortions (of any kinds) below X%, 20 to 20,000 hz +/- 1dB from 0.1W to rated output into 4ohms, damping factor >30, and all such specs must be for frequency range between the audible range 20 to 20,000 Hz, and the amps being compared will be driving speakers not considered to be unusually difficult loads. It still may not be sufficient for some people who have exception capability but it will at least be a reasonable starting point. An alternative is to actually specify the amps under comparison, such as Emotiva XPR-5 + their preamp vs Yamaha RX-A1010 vs Marantz SR-7007 vs Denon AVR-4308 and then ask the same questions. I picked those because it is highly likely that they have been subjected to reviews that include lab measurements and that the results are available. Would Gene allow a poll question that specific?

 

[jinjuku]

I believe you have said all amps sound the same operating within their limits.
I have observed a difference at my home. They were not the same amp class.

I don't know why that is bothering you.

Peace brother,

- Rich

I would like to see the post. My point is that you can't compare items like capacitance and transformer rating across differing topologies.

 

[RichB]

sorry, I must have misunderstood.

I was referring to comparisons within Class A/B.
For example, the XPA-5 and Outlaw have similar power ratings but the Outlaw has larger power supply, capacitance, and output devices.
The Outlaw is fully balanced.
So, in this case, do these sound different, measure differently, and are those differences significant?

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...Below is a quote from a well respected, professional reviewer...


"I had a brief chance to directly compare the two in a not so ideal listening environment on their new tower speakers. The sonic differences were subtle (as is the case with all well designed amplifiers operating within their linear region) but interesting to note nonetheless. Overall I found both amplifiers excelled sonically, but felt the XPA-2 was simply more lively and bold while the RPA-2 favored a more delicate presentation with less graininess at low power levels."

What does that mean?

A quote based on pure subjective bias opinions without the objective measurements to back it up?

 

[fmw]

It would be a litle difficult to measure liveliness and boldness. But there is no question that placebo effect could cause this kind of reaction to a sighted subjective listening test. If the poster were to conduct a properly designed bias controlled test, he would discover that the two amps sound exactly the same. It isn't as easy as listening to a couple of amps and then forming an opinion.

 

[RichB]

^^^

I hope this is the case as I just ordered the ATI 3005 over the Parasound A51.
It was a tough choice because the AH review was glowing for the Parasound.

The A51 is so damn pretty. The ATI 3005, not so much

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

^^^

I hope this is the case as I just ordered the ATI 3005 over the Parasound A51.
It was a tough choice because the AH review was glowing for the Parasound.

The A51 is so damn pretty. The ATI 3005, not so much

- Rich

We know the real reason you bought the ATI was because it has strong ties to Harman (Revel, Mark Levinson, Lexicon, JBL).

It's the Harman Synergy.

Now since you think Parasound is better looking, why didn't you buy it? I also compared Parasound back then. I bought ATI actually because I thought ATI was better looking. For me it came down to ATI & Bryston, but Bryston was just too expensive.

Did the fact that ATI is manufactured in the USA made a difference? Parasound is made in Taiwan?

Fuseless protection circuit and fully balanced circuit are definitely good reasons as well.

 

[RichB]

We know the real reason you bought the ATI was because it has strong ties to Harman (Revel, Mark Levinson, Lexicon, JBL).

It's the Harman Synergy.

Wrong.
I bought it because you told me to

- Rich