Upgrading a ~15x17 Living/Dining Area (mostly speakers)

[IronWaffle]

Hello,

Please bear with some newbiness and if this is too long (see spoilers if you dare!). If nothing else, this is me thinking "out loud" though I could use input before I spend time and too much money at Gramophone/Magnolia/wherever.

What I'm seeking:
Receiver (must have AirPlay & 6+ HDMI)
2-4 speakers (for use as 2.0, "4.0 extended stereo", & 5.1)
DAC (I'm out of my depth on this; at the store an inept demo came across as an algorithmic equalizer/signal booster)

Current gear [and upgrades I'm considering]:

Main:
Pioneer VSX-919 receiver [Pioneer VSX 1122/23 - not married to this]
Oppo 93
Klipsch Quintet 5.0 [B&W, MartinLogan or a recommendation here]
BIC America 12" subwoofer

Supplementary tied into HT setup:
Samsung 55" LCD HDTV
Apple TV 2
Mac Mini (2012)
Xbox 360 (for Beatles RockBand, Lego Star Wars and dust collection)
iPad 2
iPod Touch 5g

Unused/Rarely used:
Dahlquist DQ-10 (2 -- need some repair, but too big a footprint) - unable to use
Polk RT-30s (3 -- a fourth died) - unused
Outdoor speakers (2 pretty tinny, but are Zone 2 for listening on the deck) - seasonally used

Budget: I'd like to keep under $6,000 (for 2-4 speakers, a DAC and a receiver) but could rationalize up to $9,000 if I'm not at diminishing returns considering it'll be in a wood-floored semi-open floor plan and heard almost entirely by my pair of ringing, flawed ears that are not that sensitive to a bit of echo, but really respond to warm sounds.

Room drawings:

Spoiler

A note about the images: I'm new to Sketchup so it's a bit "sketchy" and placement is close, but inexact. I gave up trying to place my two Klipsch satellite speakers in it. Both are pretty poorly placed but maybe MCACC has helped that.

The details (potentially "tl;dr" but all important to my priorities:

Spoiler

Trying (and failing!) to be concise: I'm looking to upgrade my living room setup. I intend the room layout to remain essentially the same as in the attached image(s) but am open to suggestions that keep in mind this is a living space and therefore riddled with compromise. (Note: the space behind the couch is a cramped dining area, not a giant unused space awaiting conquest). I'm looking for a solution that can accommodate 2.0/4.0 (extended stereo)/5.1.

Some tricks about the room: its pretty much square with a hallway at one end; the floors are hardwood. I have a pair of massive Dahlquist DQ-10s but they need repair and they really can't fit in the room by any configuration I've thought up; a shame since in the few minutes I hooked them up a year ago I fell in love again with a kind of sonic depth and warmth I'd forgotten and can't forget again. That said, I'm no audiophile. I have an unfinished basement I'd planned on making an HT/listening area, but have since decided that in the next few years I'm selling the house and would rather not make that investment.

Some tricks about me: I've always been more of a "software" than "hardware" guy when it comes to A/V. I love listening to my SACD/DVD-A collection of Dylan, Beatles, R.E.M., etc. on my Oppo 93, but I'm in the process of upgrading my iTunes library (on a 3TB external tied to a 2012 Mac mini) to lossless and 320 to the degree I am able and I commonly listen via AirPlay using my iPad/iPod as a remote. I'm also a movie buff (mostly drama, but a Trek nerd, too), hence the current, cramped setup of my main speakers next to the TV (and center channel). When listening to music I like using the un-EQ'd "extended stereo" feature on my receiver so that the music is spread to more speakers. It's the only way my little system can fill the room. I'm not against buying four good speakers and upgrading my center channel, but I'd step down the per-speaker budget accordingly.

Some budgetary tricks: Speakers and a receiver upgrade are my priority, as well as adding a DAC (something very new to me). I can afford more than I'm willing to spend. I'm one of those folks with money that grew up without it, so I have a natural tendency to curb indulgence as a matter of prudence. Scratch that... it probably ain't natural! I'll post a budget range after my list below.

Some geographic pluses: I live 1.5 miles from a Gramophone and 3 miles from a Magnolia, both of whom are glad to recommend the most expensive gear to me. So far I've already been tempted by a $6,500 pair of MartinLogans.

Thanks in advance for any constructive tips. I've already learned a fair bit by perusing many helpful threads here!

 

[macddmac]

Welcome to the forum!
# 1. Your receiver or pretty much any HT receiver has a dac which should perfectly fine for your purposes. An outboard one would definitely be in the category of diminishing returns.
#2. An airplay receiver will still require an Ethernet connection to your receiver. Use your atv unless you're already set up.
# 3. Spend your money on the best possible speakers and subwoofer that you can afford.
#4. At your budget, I'd recommend a mid- hi level pioneer, denon, marantz, yamaha, or onkyo in the 1500 to 2k range and spend the rest on speakers, sub (s) and room treatments.
# 5. Don't waste money on expensive interconnects/ cabling. Cables to go or BJC are great values.
Chers, Mac
ps now, get out there and audition some speakers!

 

[IronWaffle]

Welcome to the forum!
# 1. Your receiver or pretty much any HT receiver has a dac which should perfectly fine for your purposes. An outboard one would definitely be in the category of diminishing returns.
#2. An airplay receiver will still require an Ethernet connection to your receiver. Use your atv unless you're already set up.
# 3. Spend your money on the best possible speakers and subwoofer that you can afford.
#4. At your budget, I'd recommend a mid- hi level pioneer, denon, marantz, yamaha, or onkyo in the 1500 to 2k range and spend the rest on speakers, sub (s) and room treatments.
# 5. Don't waste money on expensive interconnects/ cabling. Cables to go or BJC are great values.
Chers, Mac
ps now, get out there and audition some speakers!

Huge thanks, Mac!

1. Good to know. My gut said that the speaker upgrade itself would improve the sound so much that maybe a DAC would be something later down the line if at all.

2. I have plenty of Ethernet and my router is currently next to my HT setup.

3. This is where I'm really stuck. Money IS an object (one I'm not made of, but this is the luxury I can afford since I live modestly). I could definitely use some recommendations, even if just to seem smarter when salesmen smell a commission.

4. I'm so used to Pioneer that's my reference point. I'm leaning towards the VSX-1123 or a mid-level Elite. Will start sampling the others you mention today at Magnolia. Assuming the $6,000 budget it sounds like I should target about 20-25% of the budget on the receiver (I'm reading about separate amps, but that seems like overkill for now).

5. My speaker wire could use an upgrade, but that will wait a bit and will probably be through bluejeans or monoprice. Again, only after I get the basics up and running.

As to speakers, I'm going to check more out today and again on Monday when a friend can come along and give second opinions. I've already got a stack of SACDs in the car, waiting to torture the sales guy!

Right now I'm solving another problem: ten years ago, when I was 30, I was diagnosed with a severe, irreversible back problem that has gotten so much worse I can only sit for maybe an hour at a time here and there. As such, If I'm home lately then I'm in bed. As I type this I'm testing "zero gravity chairs" so that I can actually be in the room where my setup is! That won't be cheap either. Soon I'll be made of bills

 

[macddmac]

A buddy of mine has the pioneer sc-67 and that's the one I would consider in your shoes. lots of power and features for a reasonable price point. I think he paid about 1400 online.
I read something on another forum that bestbuy/ magnolia are blowing out the pioneers right now.
Speakers are so subjective that I hesitate to push one brand/ model or another. Brand wise, in the brick and mortar market, I like KEF R series, Focal W's and paradigm studio or signatures. There are many others of course but I've heard and liked all of these. Internet direct is as good or better option as many of the brands will let you in home audition their wares for as little as free and some will require you to pay return shipping. Numerous quality choices here , some of which I've heard before.
For a sub, I think the ID guys have it over the B&M retailers. SVS, HSU, PSA, Rythmik are all high value sources and all of them make a model or two that would work well for your situation.
I highly recommend taking advantage of some of the resources available on the AH website. A ton of informative stuff out there from equipment reviews to room setup etc.
Sorry to here about your spine troubles.. My wife has them too and had an artificial disk implanted in her lumbar spine a few years ago. She still has cervical spine issues but is currently maintaining with pt and chiropractic treatment.
Cheers, Mac

 

[hizzaah]

If you're really going to give auditioning speakers a chance, be sure to take notes! If you end up auditioning a bunch of different brands, you'll forget what you liked and didn't like about each of them.

Same thing with receivers. When I researching a purchase, I like to look at products in my price range and then make a spreadsheet outlining the specs of each model so I can easily sort through them.

Definitely audition some speakers at your local stores, but also look into taking advantage of some of the trial periods that the online direct retailers offer.

I didn't see you mention footprint of the speakers. Are there any size limitations you're trying to adhere to for the speakers?

 

[IronWaffle]

A buddy of mine has the pioneer sc-67 and that's the one I would consider in your shoes. lots of power and features for a reasonable price point. I think he paid about 1400 online.
I read something on another forum that bestbuy/ magnolia are blowing out the pioneers right now.
Speakers are so subjective that I hesitate to push one brand/ model or another. Brand wise, in the brick and mortar market, I like KEF R series, Focal W's and paradigm studio or signatures. There are many others of course but I've heard and liked all of these. Internet direct is as good or better option as many of the brands will let you in home audition their wares for as little as free and some will require you to pay return shipping. Numerous quality choices here , some of which I've heard before.
For a sub, I think the ID guys have it over the B&M retailers. SVS, HSU, PSA, Rythmik are all high value sources and all of them make a model or two that would work well for your situation.
I highly recommend taking advantage of some of the resources available on the AH website. A ton of informative stuff out there from equipment reviews to room setup etc.
Sorry to here about your spine troubles.. My wife has them too and had an artificial disk implanted in her lumbar spine a few years ago. She still has cervical spine issues but is currently maintaining with pt and chiropractic treatment.
Cheers, Mac

Thanks again. This is the only place I have for advice, so even ears help. Better still that there's valuable input coming from you. Thanks for sharing about your wife, though I'm very to sorry to hear she has issues. I miss taking for granted that pain goes away. I just blew $1600 on a chair yesterday. A CHAIR.... A chair? C-H-A-I-R. Jeez, that's a whole speaker! On the other hand, it will allow a vast improvement in my quality of life. A chair. Wow. On topic...

I've read about KEF & SVS and am intrigued -- hopefully Gramophone may have a wider selection than Magnolia did and I can check some out; Focal and the others are new to me, and I'm grateful for the homework you've assigned by mentioning them. I'll check them out too. This week I'll be reading a lot on Audioholics (and ProjectorCentral). I appreciate your hesitation, but its helping give me greater scope. I doubt I'd buy speakers online; I need to hear them and I'm not comfortable "show rooming" so I'll rely on latent negotiation skills from careers past to get a reasonable deal.

Already, having just listened to three brands and six models its easy to see/hear that its about prioritazation of qualities you prefer. In brief, I loved the presence of the Martin Logans. The Definitives I sampled were robust and I like the adjustable subs built-in. Doing A/B between them (using music I brought in) the ML's felt more alive, for lack of a better word and the Defs felt like speakers. I listened to some B&Ws but they lacked airiness of ML and the oomph of Definitive, so they're likely out of the running.

On my front, the plots thicken! As we speak I'm about to visit Costco, where I read the Pioneer SC-1522 (basically the Elite 65 sans amber and branding) is available for $600 (SRP for Elite 65 and 1522 is $1600). I'm pretty confident that will do the job for me and I can plug that $1000 savings elsewhere in this venture.

The listening went well. I quite liked the ambience of Martin Logans, but they don't have the mid-line models I'm interested in so that'll be tomorrow's field trip. Trouble is, to really get mileage out of them I need to reconfigure my whole room. I'm set on orienting furniture towards the sliding doors, deck and view, which limits my options. I did a mock-up a few years ago (attached) that can work, but that'll absorb the $1000 saved on the receiver by necessitating a projector. Further complicated by the need to get a screen that can go in my ceiling. My joists are oriented properly that I can have it retract in-ceiling (yay, contractors and ballooning budgets!) or I can go more low tech. On the plus-side, this would offer much more optimal speaker (and out-of-the-way component) placement. The only reason I backed out on this plan a few years ago is because I drew up plans for a basement HT, and that empty shell has more flexibility. Of course, this new config also means I could accommodate my Dahlquists and spend a fraction of new speakers' cost by having them professionally repaired (yay, shipping the beasts to Regnar in NJ! Oy.)

Basic floor plan change:

Spoiler

I'd edit, but its Costco time. Ciao!

 

[IronWaffle]

If you're really going to give auditioning speakers a chance, be sure to take notes! If you end up auditioning a bunch of different brands, you'll forget what you liked and didn't like about each of them.

Same thing with receivers. When I researching a purchase, I like to look at products in my price range and then make a spreadsheet outlining the specs of each model so I can easily sort through them.

Definitely audition some speakers at your local stores, but also look into taking advantage of some of the trial periods that the online direct retailers offer.

I didn't see you mention footprint of the speakers. Are there any size limitations you're trying to adhere to for the speakers?

Great advice! Because of your post I began taking some notes. I'm auditioning again today and tomorrow, so I'll fill in some missed gaps and do the rest on the fly.

Good advice on the online trials. I've looked into that, but am a touch hesitant. I can get over that

Thanks, hizzaah.