Help with some Upgrades?

[Scipio85]

I got into into my home theater system last Christmas. My brother came to visit and he help me run wires through the walls and do some mounting speakers. He also has some wholesale contacts, so I did some upgrading of some of my equipment through him because my old sound system was a Yamaha AVR with 5 Satellite speakers.

Because of the wholesale company's "deals" and his advice I really didn't research the items I purchased like I should have. It lead me into some, not bad decisions, but I feel I could have spent my money better that is for sure. But Hindsight is 20/20 so they say. I am currently deployed so I will have a little extra cash to help my HT system in areas where I feel it is lacking.

Starting off this is what I own as far as sound.

AVR: Sherwood Newcastle r-774
Center Channel: Cerwin Vega CMX-25c
Front Right and Left Channels: Cerwin Vega CMX-212
Rear Left and Right: small satellite from the Yamaha box set

My first question to the Forum is about my rear speakers. With the addition of the front speakers the rear sounds are really being out shined. I don't think its the mixing of the AVR, it's just the little things can't keep up. Since they were satellite speakers and the shape of the room I mounted on the wall close to the ceiling. With them being where they are mounted I was wondering if anyone had any ideas what to upgrade into, and some good mounting options. For the sake of matching I was looking at the CMX 5 but I am willing to get different speakers for the rears.

Second question is about these CMX 212. These things are huge! I wasn't looking at the size of the darn things when I ordered them, I feel a little dumb because of it. My AVR only sends 100w to drive each channel where each of these speaker's handling power is 300w. I have looked into getting a preamp to help with this but my AVR doesn't have any preamp outputs. I really like my current AVR but I am starting to think it might be time to look for a new one that can handle what I needed it to do and for future expansions. Any ideas?

Third, I understand that both these questions came about because the CMX 212. Maybe I should get rid of them? Two things come to mind though, where to find someone to buy these things? Seems like a it would be hard task. The other is... they sound REALLY good!

Fourth, my brother is trying to talk me into going 7.1. I have read a lot about how I am not losing any sound and all that jazz. On the other had running the wire now before I finish the basement would be so much easier. Not a huge question but I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts.

Thank you for your time
Scipio

 

[mpompey]

OK, welcome to the forum. You are going to find a ton of info here.

First things first. Get yourself a RadioShack SPL (sound meter) so you can level your speakers. That is probably the first thing that needs to happen.
It isn't going to magically make your system balanced but it's a step in the right direction.

From the looks of the pictures you could probably benefit from centering your display and front speakers a little bit if possible. I'm not sure of the TV mount. But depending on what you guys installed you may be able to slide it to the right to even it out.

If you were my client, my first conversation would be what do you want to watch/do in your room? Do you want a movies only room, with the lights out, or is it more of a family media room with music, games, TV, etc.

If you are looking to get rid of your speakers, you could sell them on Craigslist, Ebay, maybe Audiogon. If you are gung ho on getting rid of them.

Also, check the recommend systems on this site for some good information to start.

Hope to see you around.

 

[Scipio85]

Thank you for your feedback mpompey

I do not have a SPL yet. I have been using the AVRs room setup with microphone. I know this isn't the choice way to do it but it had been working fine. I think you got an impression that the right and left balance is a problem. I could not be happier with it to be honest. Hearing sounds travel from one side of the room to the other just sounds seamless and amazing. The rear signals for the speakers are set to max output and are nowhere as good as the rest of the set up. I was asking for on good rear speakers for my system.

The TV can turn and slide but that is not the issue I am having.

Maybe what I should be getting from your post is that I am doing everything wrong.</SPAN>

 

[mpompey]

From the picture it looks like the center needs to move a bit more to the right, with the display as well.
Your receiver may have compensated for the different distances as it did it's audio routine. Usually the AVR's
built in system can do a decent job with level setting. It'll get you close. Do you have a copy of Avia's Home
Theatre setup DVD or Digital Video Essentials yet? Those are pretty good tools to walk you through all of your
options.

As for another set of rears, your room would probably benefit from any brand of dipole rear speaker. I'm an
Axiom man myself, but I have a friend who has Klipsch and they sound pretty good as well. Can't go wrong
with a set of Axiom QS4s in that room.

 

[Scipio85]

I have used Disney's WOW for setting up the HT. Are Avia's Home Theatre setup DVD or Digital Video Essentials better for sound?

I have learned from my first mistake of my tower speakers, I will have to see if what will fit in that small area.

 

[Scipio85]

Can't go wrong with a set of Axiom QS4s in that room.

After looking up those speakers I am lusting for them right now.

 

[mpompey]

You give those bad boys room to breathe and you'll never look back. That's how I felt after upgrading from some Infinity Primus bookshelves I was using as side surrounds.

Once I got those bad boys in and listened to Fellowship of the Ring, I immediately started selling junk so I could buy another set to replace the rears.

 

[ahblaza]

Hey Scip, I think you need to slow down and regroup, you're already lusting for the first suggestion, and looking for preamps without having preamp outputs, I hope you meant amps, preamps feed amps. Your head is swirling around my friend, don't make the same mistakes you made with your brother by rushing into things. Yes those surrounds are minuscle. One step at a time, tell us what your intentions are and what you hope to achieve with your intentions and we can help. Rome wasn't built overnight. Your placement options have a lot to be desired and I would start there and work with what you have before lusting after something else, seriously. Try for a decent 3 channel setup for now, symmetry is important, and move some of that furniture out of the way (temporarily) and get things oriented, speakers away from front and side walls a bit, remember this is just temporary and see how three channels sound with movies and music. It's a start, you want the speakers to play the room and not the other way around. You're thinking about outboard amps and new speaks, it's not really going to matter with the way you have things setup. I'm not being cruel here, that is not my intention, at this point better electronics and speakers just isn't going to make a difference, like I said, just imagine you're moving what you have around to get the symmetry I'm talking about and then actually listen to what you have, I think you may be surprised what can be achieved with just some reorientation and getting things squared up.
Cheers Jeff

 

[zieglj01]

As has been stated, you are blocking the radiation pattern of the towers
Also, a bigger/better center channel can help >
Cerwin Vega CMX45C 4x5 Inch 2-Way Passive Center Channel Speaker at AMS

 

[zieglj01]

Also, look at Pinpoint 40 wall mounts
Amazon.com: Pinpoint AM-40B Side Clamping Bookshelf Speaker Wall Mount (Pair): Electronics

For budget friendly good surrounds at a good price - HTD Level Two
http://www.htd.com/Products/bookshelf-speakers/Level-TWO-Bookshelf-Speakers?gclid=CK3Kufv8r7UCFQc3nAodCCoAWQ

For a tighter budget - Infinity Primus
http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Primus-P153-Bookshelf-Satellite/dp/B004649W1Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360644881&sr=8-1&keywords=infinity+primus

 

[Scipio85]

I thank you for your concern and trying to stop me from rushing into another purchase without thinking and doing some research. This is not needed though. I may be lusting over some of those speakers but that doesn't mean I was running to the store to buy them as soon as I hit the submit button. Yes, I am looking at the QS4s, and yes, it was the first suggestion, but I must say that they fit what I am trying to do very nicely.</SPAN>

I understand that Rome was not built overnight, nor was it built in a day. The first thing I replaced was my AVR. It didn’t have enough digital inputs (2 optic, 1 coaxial) and the HDMI was only pass-through. After the receiver I wanted to slowly start building up my sound system; because all the speakers I had were only the little satellite speakers that came with my old receiver. I did my research and center speaker seemed to be the most used speaker throughout the system. </SPAN>I was originally looking at the CMX45C but the company I was buying through was out of stock of that speaker at the time. The CMX25C sound is great and could not ask any more of it.</SPAN></SPAN> From there I branched out and bought my right and left channeled speakers. Knowing that they were a little overboard but thinking I would grow into them as I continued to build my system. I just didn’t realize how much growing my system needed to fit into them. I understand you think I need to update my main three channels but I don’t. I am happy with them. </SPAN>
I want my room to be more of a media center TV, video, games and music. In the past nine years I have moved seven times. I am planning on staying in my current location a little longer than in the past but that can change very quickly. I own a small house and the pictures you see are of the great room. The first picture is taken from the kitchen and it doesn’t show a good perspective on the placement of the front left and right speakers. The right speaker doesn’t have anything blocking it but the left one does. I know this isn’t ideal but when I bought the speakers the loveseat and the chair weren’t there. They were added after my roommate moved in and she is only there to watch my house while I am away. The main reason I posted the pictures wasn’t for you to critique the </SPAN>feng shui of the room but to show you where the surrounds were placed in the viewing area</SPAN></SPAN>, and to </SPAN>

I am sorry my terminology and understand was a little, ok a lot, off. From my current understanding, the preamplifier or a processor decodes and prepares the audio signal. The processor then sends the freshly decoded signals to the amplifier. Next the amplifier supplies the power to drive the speaker. Home Theater AVRs have both the preamp and amps. To use a different amp with the system requires bypassing the amp in the AVR through preouts. My AVR does not appear to have preouts. After I upgrade my rear speakers I’m going to be looking for a new AVR that can be used as a preamp for further advancements in the future.</SPAN>