ATI AT602 Look inside

[ahblaza]

Looks great, Jeff!

Btw, you all had me shopping for B-stock ATI amps again last night.

Thanks Adam, I am really proud of this little jem, everything about it speaks quality, at this price point I was up all night talking with Jeff at ATI about some more ATI magic, not putting EMO down but this 602 has me more excited then either of my EMO's, well the XPA-3 is impressive though, I would like a whole rack of ATI's , they are just built for power and quite refined also. I was a little dissappointed that the gain was only 24dB, but I just turned the receiver's levels up a bit, I would imagine the 24dB gain would attribute to among other components to the black silence of these amps, as the EMO's 32dB gain structure is fixed, the 602 even has variable gain control. So far the EMO's have been quiet though, I must admit, but the fire is lit under the butt to go with more ATI, there is nothing B-Stock about these amps. Adam, you can highjack my thread anytime, I didn't realize it would draw so much attention.
Cheers Jeff

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am really proud of this little jem, everything about it speaks quality, at this price point I was up all night talking with Jeff at ATI about some more ATI magic, not putting EMO down but this 602 has me more excited then either of my EMO's, well the XPA-3 is impressive though, I would like a whole rack of ATI's , they are just built for power and quite refined also. I was a little dissappointed that the gain was only 24dB, but I just turned the receiver's levels up a bit, I would imagine the 24dB gain would attribute to among other components to the black silence of these amps, as the EMO's 32dB gain structure is fixed, the 602 even has variable gain control. So far the EMO's have been quiet though, I must admit, but the fire is lit under the butt to go with more ATI, there is nothing B-Stock about these amps.

Uh oh, looks like someone is being naughty and scheming to overthrow his entire amp regime with a new dictator of power.

Did you increase the speaker channel levels in the AVR or just turn up the master volume?

I guess increasing the speaker channel levels would be the equivalent of increasing the gain on the AT602 from 24dB to 28dB.

 

[Adam]

Adam, you can highjack my thread anytime...

Thanks! And in that case...

Is $2400 a good price for the AT2007, or do they hit $2000 regularly? I seem to recall reading (probably in this thread ) that they go for half off at least sometimes.

Adam

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks! And in that case...

Is $2400 a good price for the AT2007, or do they hit $2000 regularly? I seem to recall reading (probably in this thread ) that they go for half off at least sometimes.

Adam

I was lucky enough to pay 50% off on all four of my ATI amps. Those 50% deals are more rare these days. Just watch their website like a hawk.

You know that AT2007 is like a 100lbs, right? Better make sure it comes with those big metal handles.

 

[ahblaza]

Thanks! And in that case...

Is $2400 a good price for the AT2007, or do they hit $2000 regularly? I seem to recall reading (probably in this thread ) that they go for half off at least sometimes.

Adam

Adam, fire an email to Jeff Hipps at ATI, sales@classicaudioparts.com and just mention how really curious you are to be a proud owner of an ATI product, but you can only spend XXXX amount of $$$$, you may be pleasantly surprised.
Cheers Jeff

 

[ahblaza]

Uh oh, looks like someone is being naughty and scheming to overthrow his entire amp regime with a new dictator of power.

Did you increase the speaker channel levels in the AVR or just turn up the master volume?

I guess increasing the speaker channel levels would be the equivalent of increasing the gain on the AT602 from 24dB to 28dB.

Your assumption is correct my man
I just increased the speaker levels in the AVR and had the 602's gain at maximum. Worked for me

 

[Steve81]

Your assumption is correct my man
I just increased the speaker levels in the AVR and had the 602's gain at maximum. Worked for me

Out of curiosity, what are the levels at currently? With a gain of 24dB (isn't it specified for 28?), you may risk clipping the AVR's output to the ATI if you push things hard enough.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Out of curiosity, what are the levels at currently? With a gain of 24dB (isn't it specified for 28?), you may risk clipping the AVR's output to the ATI if you push things hard enough.

Wait, yeah, according to ATI, the AT602 does have a gain of 28dB, not 24dB.

Where did that 24dB number come from?

The AT2000 & AT3000 have the 34dB gain (RCA) & 28dB gain (balanced). All the other ATI amps have a 28dB gain (RCA).

 

[ahblaza]

According to the specs sheet, Gain: voltage gain of 24dB, maybe I'm misinterpreting this, the AVR levels are at + 6 dB for about 77dB output on SPL. What are the dangers here with the 602's gain at max. and the AVR settings at +6dB? Thanks.
Jeff

 

[KEW]

Hey Jeff,
Glad you went with the ATI and it delivered the quality expectations you sought!

Looking at the interior (that is a lot of heat sink!) and noting that the 1202 only weighs 4 pounds more makes me wonder if ATI decided it would be less expensive to use much of the same components/assembly as a shared platform.
If anybody has a 1202, It would be great if they could post a picture of the overall layout from the same angle you took yours from.

 

[Steve81]

According to the specs sheet, Gain: voltage gain of 24dB, maybe I'm misinterpreting this, the AVR levels are at + 6 dB for about 77dB output on SPL. What are the dangers here with the 602's gain at max. and the AVR settings at +6dB? Thanks.
Jeff

Hey Jeff,

The main danger is that like amplifier output, preamp output can also be clipped. From the XPA 2 review:

I did some quick spot-checking on the XPA-2 amplifier gain structure to ensure it could be properly driven with a wide assortment of preamps or receivers. My personal criteria for amplifier gain structure is that it should be able to hit full power when driven with 2Vrms. The XPA-2 blew this notion out of the water with an unusually high voltage gain of 32dB (un-bridged) and 38dB (bridged). After confirming this twice via my measurements, I pinged Emotiva technical support and they informed me this was purposely done for end users using a budget receiver many of which tend to clip above 1Vrms output. I can certainly appreciate this as I have found this to be the case with many receivers even in the $1k price range. The XPA-2 reached its full power with only 1.2Vrms.

 

[Steve81]

Additional musings (and be warned, I may well be full of it):

When you're looking at voltage gain, a 6dB increase = 2x the voltage. So 24dB would be 2^4 or 16x the incoming voltage. I don't have a clue how much voltage your AVR can swing through its pre-outs before clipping, but if its 1V RMS, than you're looking at 16V RMS output from your amp before the AVR clips the signal. Into an 8 ohm load, that's 32W.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Additional musings (and be warned, I may well be full of it):

When you're looking at voltage gain, a 6dB increase = 2x the voltage. So 24dB would be 2^4 or 16x the incoming voltage. I don't have a clue how much voltage your AVR can swing through its pre-outs before clipping, but if its 1V RMS, than you're looking at 16V RMS output from your amp before the AVR clips the signal. Into an 8 ohm load, that's 32W.

1V RMS would indicate a weak, cheap, poorly designed pre-out stage. Not that some AVRs aren't designed that to save cost and power, which is why companies like Emotiva design amps with 32db of gain these days, but if a pre-out stage can't drive a 50K ohm load to a minimum of 2V RMS, someone in the circuit design department should be shown the door, IMHO.

 

[Steve81]

I will say that if I were to take a guess, since Jeff has 7xx and 8xx Onkyo receivers and given that they're THX certified, they should be able to deliver enough unclipped voltage via the preouts to get the job done. However, I don't know if THX actually cares/measures pre-outs on receivers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

According to the specs sheet, Gain: voltage gain of 24dB, maybe I'm misinterpreting this, the AVR levels are at + 6 dB for about 77dB output on SPL. What are the dangers here with the 602's gain at max. and the AVR settings at +6dB? Thanks.
Jeff

Here are my Ch Levels:

KEF 201/2 FL+7.0 C+4.5 FR+7.0 SR+6.5 SL+6.5 SW1+3.0 SW2+2.5


B&W 802D2 FL-0.5 C+4.5 FR+0.0 SR+6.5 SL+6.5 SW1+3.0 SW2+2.5


TAD 2201 FL-0.5 C+4.5 FR+0.0 SR+6.5 SL+6.5 SW1+3.0 SW2+2.5

REVEL SALON2 FL+3.5 C+4.5 FR+4.0 SR+6.5 SL+6.5 SW1+3.0 SW2+2.5

LINKWITZ ORION3 FL+5.0 FR+4.5 SW1+5.0 SW2+5.5


DYNAUDIO X32 FL+8.0 FR+7.5 SW-8.0

FOCAL 826V FL+5.5 FR+6.0 SW-8.0

PHILHARMONIC 3 FL+11.0 FR+10.0 SW-8.0

ATC SCM7 FL+12.0 FR+12.0 SW-8.0

 

[ahblaza]

1V RMS would indicate a weak, cheap, poorly designed pre-out stage. Not that some AVRs aren't designed that to save cost and power, which is why companies like Emotiva design amps with 32db of gain these days, but if a pre-out stage can't drive a 50K ohm load to a minimum of 2V RMS, someone in the circuit design department should be shown the door, IMHO.

Irv, I have to agree with you here, here are my 809 and 709 pre-amp output voltages, they are identical. Maximum RCA Output Level and Impedance 4.6 V/470 ohm pre-out, I think that should work just fine. no

 

[ahblaza]

Hey Jeff,
Glad you went with the ATI and it delivered the quality expectations you sought!

Looking at the interior (that is a lot of heat sink!) and noting that the 1202 only weighs 4 pounds more makes me wonder if ATI decided it would be less expensive to use much of the same components/assembly as a shared platform.
If anybody has a 1202, It would be great if they could post a picture of the overall layout from the same angle you took yours from.

Thanks Kurt, I am also very glad I chose the 602, only problem is I want more of the same. That stood out right away for me too that the 1202 was only 4 lbs. more. I think Irv has one or did. Thanks again my friend, good to hear from you.
Cheers Jeff

 

[Irvrobinson]

Thanks Kurt, I am also very glad I chose the 602, only problem is I want more of the same. That stood out right away for me too that the 1202 was only 4 lbs. more. I think Irv has one or did. Thanks again my friend, good to hear from you.
Cheers Jeff

I've never owned an AT1202, but here's a link to a photo of one:

Google Image Result for [url]http://www.dreamhomecinema.com/USR/PRODUCTS/ATI/ATI%20AT1202//AT1202guts[1].jpg[/URL]

It looks like the main difference is a much larger transformer.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Irv, I have to agree with you here, here are my 809 and 709 pre-amp output voltages, they are identical. Maximum RCA Output Level and Impedance 4.6 V/470 ohm pre-out, I think that should work just fine. no

I agree. Those specs are indicative of a high-current pre-amp output stage.

 

[KEW]

I've never owned an AT1202, but here's a link to a photo of one:

Google Image Result for http://www.dreamhomecinema.com/USR/PRODUCTS/ATI/ATI AT1202//AT1202guts[1].jpg

It looks like the main difference is a much larger transformer.

Thanks!
You are right.
I am surprised that they even seem to have the same capacitors. There is no way to tell for sure, but they are not markedly different in size as you might expect!