Outlaw vs Emotiva?

[Steve81]

I think the problem is we are comparing bench test results from different "benches". The methodologies of the tests/measurements would likely not be the same.

True enough the benches are different, though one will note that on the AH measurements page as well as the testing methodologies page: Basic Amplifier Measurement Techniques — Reviews and News from Audioholics suggest that the 1kHz power sweep figures should be comparable to the tests performed by the major print magazines.

So I really doubt the Emo can do better than 72X5 and 180X2, unless their specified ratings are for short term, and the transformer in that case would be working under overload condition, and that's fine by me. If the same rules are applied to the Outlaw, the Outlaw would still likely come out ahead.

What makes things more interesting is that the UPA-500 that was measured and I'm comparing here has an even smaller transformer than the 700, at 350VA, which should make for an even bigger mismatch, and yet it still doesn't seem to get utterly embarrassed (and trust me, I find the results interesting as well). Of course, the 1kHz power sweeps tests are fairly short term, but to the best of my knowledge, that applies to the tests performed on the Outlaw as well.

I would still bet the other way purely from theoretical stand point.

As a final thought: I suspect if you pushed things to 5 channels driven into 4 ohms, the Outlaw might start to pull ahead a little more convincingly. On the other hand, for real world material, I think the el-cheapo UPA-500 (or the UPA-700) could hold its own and then some; outside the test bench, you don't really see more than one or two channels peaking simultaneously. Given the information we have, that really seems to play to the UPA's strengths.

 

[PENG]

True enough the benches are different, though one will note that on the AH measurements page as well as the testing methodologies page: Basic Amplifier Measurement Techniques — Reviews and News from Audioholics suggest that the 1kHz power sweep figures should be comparable to the tests performed by the major print magazines.

I am sure he's right, they are comparable.

What makes things more interesting is that the UPA-500 that was measured and I'm comparing here has an even smaller transformer than the 700, at 350VA, which should make for an even bigger mismatch, and yet it still doesn't seem to get utterly embarrassed (and trust me, I find the results interesting as well). Of course, the 1kHz power sweeps tests are fairly short term, but to the best of my knowledge, that applies to the tests performed on the Outlaw as well.

I won't defy science, so I think we agree, on short term basis the smaller transformer would seem very comparable to the one with the larger one. In a longer duration the larger one would have less heat rise whereas the smaller one would heat up earlier, to the alarming point (whatever that means). I am quite sure many manufacturers do take advantage of the fact that well built transformers have excellent overload capability, much better than one would think. When I said short term, I wasn't talking about seconds, but minutes or even hours, though if you overload one for more than 10 to 20 minutes, even at light overload conditions of say 20%, you may begin to shorter its life. It depends on the design, and the way they are built so I am only quoting very rough numbers here.

As a final thought: I suspect if you pushed things to 5 channels driven into 4 ohms, the Outlaw might start to pull ahead a little more convincingly. On the other hand, for real world material, I think the el-cheapo UPA-500 (or the UPA-700) could hold its own and then some; outside the test bench, you don't really see more than one or two channels peaking simultaneously. Given the information we have, that really seems to play to the UPA's strengths.

We are in agreement, at last!!

PS you can almost say the same about some well built AVR such as the Denon 4XXX, Onkyo 3XXX, Marantz 7/8XXX and HK flag ship models, but that's another topic.

 

[Steve81]

We are in agreement, at last!!

Ahh, peace for our time

 

[jotham]

I realize this is kinda ignoring the whole point of the original question but I was facing the exact same quandary. I wanted to upgrade from my trusty Onkyo 805 which feeds into 3 power hungry Emotiva ERM 6.3 speakers and 3 axiom rear speakers. I absolutely love the ERM speakers but they certainly can drain an amp section.

The challenge I was facing was the desire for room correction and high power levels, ideally 200W for the front channels, 125 for the rear. Plus support for HDMI 1.4 which my Onkyo does not have.
Given my limited budget, I finally realized that I was probably better off with a new Onkyo ( or other) receiver handling the rear channels and getting an Emotiva XPA-3 to handle the front channels.

Have you considered letting go of the pure pre-pro concept and going with a receiver as the pre and handling the slightly less demanding rear channels? I love the aesthetics of a pure pre-pro but I'm not sure that there is an actual performance difference. More specifically, I doubt that I have the ability to hear the difference

 

[PENG]

Given my limited budget, I finally realized that I was probably better off with a new Onkyo ( or other) receiver handling the rear channels and getting an Emotiva XPA-3 to handle the front channels.

Have you considered letting go of the pure pre-pro concept and going with a receiver as the pre and handling the slightly less demanding rear channels? I love the aesthetics of a pure pre-pro but I'm not sure that there is an actual performance difference. More specifically, I doubt that I have the ability to hear the difference

Prior to separate I had been on AVR+2 channel amp using a Denon 3805 and then a 4308. I perceive no performance difference and would have no trouble going back to AVR+2 channel amp again but since I have 11 channel amps on hand now I am on a path of no return.


I think the XPA-3 plus something like a Denon 4XXX could well be all you need.

 

[j_garcia]

I also had my AVR + XPA-3 for the fronts, but I also had extra amps that I could use for the surrounds. That meant the UMC-200 was an easier sell. Less than half the size of a comparable AVR and basically the same price I'd be looking at for similar features.

 

[rnatalli]

Both are great products. If you need legacy connections, go with Outlaw; if not, go with EMO for the room correction.

 

[Mr Bob]

My question is about the bass. "It's all about the bass, 'bout the bass, 'bout the bass no treble..."

My first experience of Outlaw was with a Cambridge Soundworks sat/sub combo, and its bass was rich and juicy, surprisingly good for such a small speaker system. This Outlaw was the 6.1 1050, at 65W/ch.

I had a chance to get a stellar deal on an Emotiva, the Fusion 8100, which has the preamp section from one of their great stand alone preamps, and the power amp section from one of their great power amps. It was very well outfitted with HDMI, which the Outlaw does not have, and the internal menus allowed for lots of things that the Outlaw didn't.

But the Emotiva just didn't have the richness of bass of the Outlaw. Try as I might, comparing the 2 amps, it just wasn't there on the Emotiva. It also has not been there at any of the Emotiva demos I have attended, nor in my friend Roy's systems, which use a lot of the Emotiva. Roy is the one who sold me my Outlaw, so he's in the loop on all of it. But my ears just tell me that the Outlaw is a richer sound, despite the fact that the Emotiva has it all over the Outlaw in other areas, being so much more modern than the Outlaw.

Am I hearing things? The Outlaw is more cumbersome to use in my home theater, not having component switching for my 73" Mit CRT rear projection display, meaning separate outboard switching has to be done with any change in source, it can't all be done at the amp.

But this inconvenience is outweighed by the richness of the sound quality of the older, richer Outlaw amp. I don't do enough switching to have that be a real issue.

My brand new Emotiva is sitting right here in its factory box - had a problem and the entire amp wound up getting replaced, straight from Emotiva - but I can't bring myself to let go of the richness of the Outlaw. As such I have not even unboxed the brand new replacement Emotiva.

Comments welcome -