Line level or LFE

[H20]

Hi. I am new in this so i would very much appreciate some help. I have Yamaha rxv473 and use Boston Acoustics speakers with it (two Boston Acoustics A 26 bookshelp speakers and a subwoofer ASW 250). In the sub's maunual it is stated to use the "sub out" connection from the receiver to the Line Level input on the subwoofer marked "L" or "R" (if using stereo) or to use LFE (if connecting subwoofer to 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 digital home theater systems). Since i use two front speakers and a sub (2.1), do i connect my digital receiver's subwoofer output to the LFE or to the input marked "L" or "R"? Further on, it is stated that when using Line Level input the subwoofer's built-in crossover is engaged. In such case, is my receiver's crossover automatically disabled. It is my understanding that is such case the receiver's crossover should be turned off or in some way disabled. If using subwoofer's crossover (it goes from 40 to 180 Hz) should i put it between 60 and 80 Hz or something else? The frequency response of my bookshelf speakers is 51-25,000 Hz (+/-3 dB) and of subwoofer 35-150 Hz (+/- 3dB). Many thanks

 

[markw]

You want to use your receiver's bass manaement. Use the line level LFE input and set your receiver's crossover to 80 hz. if possible, try setting it igher and go with what sounds better.

You would use the speaker level inputs only when your receiver doesn't have bass manaement, such as with a stereo unit.

 

[H20]

Many thanks markw. I have already tried that previously but the bass sound was to directional and to strong/dominant. My bookshelf speakers are set at "small" and x-over on my receiver at 80 Hz. Should i connect it like you suggested and put higher x-over on my receiver's bass management? If using line level LFE, then i assume i need to set x-over on my sub as higher as possible (180 Hz)? I was told at the store to connect using the line level LFE only in case i have/use 5, 6 or 7 speakers plus sub.

 

[j_garcia]

Bass becomes localizable above about 120Hz, so setting the x-over above that will make it more noticeable.

Using the LFE input usually bypasses the x-over in the sub completely, so it doesn't matter what the x-over setting is. In your setup, it sounds like using the LFE input would be the correct way to go. The "store" misinformed you a bit - as long as you have speakers that are set to small, you want to use the LFE input.

If the bass is "dominant" then you need to adjust the speaker settings in the receiver, lower the sub's volume on the sub itself and/or alter the placement of the sub. You want this to get as close to sounding right before running any sort of auto calibration.

 

[H20]

Thank u j_garcia. I appreciate it. Just few more questions (sorry i am a novice in this field so they may sound stupid) - what would happen if connecting the sub to my yamaha 5.1 receiver by using the Line Level input marked with L or R instead LFE? Would I disable in such case the receiver's bass management and would need to set up x-over on the sub? i do not know whether it makes sense, but it's like I have feeling that music sounds better (more natural) when avoiding receiver's bass management and setting x-over on the sub. Anyway i tried connecting the sub by using the LFE input and setting x-over on my receiver to 80, 90 and 100 and the best match would be either 80 or 90 Hz however the bass is still coming into focus so i will try moving the sub around the room to get more natural sound overall

 

[j_garcia]

You still want to use the receiver's x-over rather than the sub's. The x-over on the sub only affects the sub itself, not the other speakers. Most subs have outputs for the main speakers, so you would connect them to the sub rather than the receiver. In a case like that however the x-over still does not affect those speakers. When subs have outputs like this, it will have a fixed x-over, often at 80Hz, so this basically doesn't buy you anything over what the receiver already does and lacks the flexibility to adjust it as the receiver does.

Try this: set the receiver's x-over to 80Hz, use the LFE input and then turn the sub down until it blends smoothly with the Bostons and does not call attention to itself.

The A26 lists a -3dB (roughly the bottom useful point) of 51Hz, so it should work well with a 70 to 80Hz x-over, allowing the sub to be crossed lower to aid in reducing your ability to locate it. It sounds like volume of the sub is the issue here though, not the x-over.

When you are listening, what "mode" are you listening in? With only the two speakers, you should always have the receiver set to Stereo and the receiver should also be configured not to use the other channels for other types of signals.

 

[H20]

thanks for clarifying. your are right, it could be that volume of the sub is the issue here. I can only have 40, 60, 80, 90, 100, 120 Hz x-over on my reciever so i will try again with 80 Hz. Previously i tried with 60 Hz but was not happy with it. Mostly i listen to radio or CDs. I have the receiver set to stereo. i will need to check whether i may configure my receiver not to use the other channels for other types of signals. Do not know how to find that but will try

 

[H20]

@j-garcia. Hi. Still struggling with setting up my sub so that it blends smoothly with the front speakers and i am running out of option. i tried running again yamaha parametric room acoustics optimizer function and got the following results 2/0/0.1 ch; 3.70/4.55 m; -10.0/+2.0 dB; and W-3 Level Error. This funtion configured my main speakers as large and x-over at 40 Hz. Should i change it back to "small" and x-over at 80 Hz? In yamaha's manual it is written that W-3 Level Error is due to significant volume differences between the speakers and that i should check the usage environment and cable connections of each speaker + the volume of the sub. Speakers are connected properly and my sub's volume was set to half and x-over on the sub to maximum (in accordance with instructions in yamaha's manual). Any ideas what to do? Thanks

 

[j_garcia]

Swap the two main speakers. If you get the same error and the problem follows the speaker, it could be a damaged speaker for whatever reason. When an issue like that comes up, it is often good practice to just disconnect all connections and reconnect them even if you believe them to be correct (I've done it too )

Other factors: How far do you sit from each speaker? Do you sit very close or far from them? Is one much farther away than the other or one is close to the wall and the other is sort of out in open space? When you place the mic, is it close to your ear level at your seated position? It setting them to large is not uncommon, but I've not heard of that error and I am not familiar with YPAO.

 

[H20]

Ok. I will try reconnecting them. I have also tried moving the sub to another place but no result, i am still getting the same w-3 level error and it is indicating that it concerns the sub. I sit some 3,5 meters from the front ones and maybe 3,75 from the sub. The sub is in the corner of the room. Front speakers are some 2meters apart. I placed the mic close to my ear level before running YPAO setup. I am not sure if i will get something by changing volume level on my avr for both the front and sub. Currently their values are 0.0 and + 1.0 dB for the front ones and -10 dB for the sub. I called yamaha's dealer but he does not have a clue what i am talking about. Frustrating. I am reading more about this on blu-ray.com but i am not sure if will be any smarter and that it will help. I should have purchased marantz 1603 and different set of speakers

 

[j_garcia]

Try lowering the sub's level to 1/3 instead of 50% then and re-run the YPAO. Seems odd that it would be that loud at 50%, but it is worth a shot.

 

[H20]

I did but still getting the same error message. Maybe lowering the bsub's level all the way down?

 

[j_garcia]

That's pretty odd. What about the polarity? Should be Zero.

http://www.bostonacoustics.com/US/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?CatId=HomeAudio(BostonAcoustics_US)&SubCatId=Subwoofers(BostonAcoustics_US)&Pid=ASW250(BostonAcoustics)

Yes, then try setting it even lower to see if you keep getting the same error. If you drop it almost all the way down and it still gives an error then something else is wrong.

 

[H20]

The polarity is zero. Strange i know. Would putting sound level of the sub on my receiver to 0.0 instead of -10.0 prior to redoing the setup all over again help? Should i even make some sound level changes on my receiver or only on the sub?

 

[j_garcia]

The receiver should clear all of its previously stored settings each time you run YPAO, but it may be worth making all the speaker settings zero (or do a factory reset) and see if it gives you the same settings for the other speakers also.

 

[H20]

Thanks. I will try lowering the sub further down and if it is not working will do a factory reset. Can't do it now as it is midnight so will have to do it tomorrow. Will let you know thanks again

 

[PENG]

what would happen if connecting the sub to my yamaha 5.1 receiver by using the Line Level input marked with L or R instead LFE? Would I disable in such case the receiver's bass management and would need to set up x-over on the sub? i do not know whether it makes sense, but it's like I have feeling that music sounds better (more natural) when avoiding receiver's bass management and setting x-over on the sub. Anyway i tried connecting the sub by using the LFE input and setting x-over on my receiver to 80, 90 and 100 and the best match would be either 80 or 90 Hz however the bass is still coming into focus so i will try moving the sub around the room to get more natural sound overall

You can try using connecting the line level to your AVR's L/R instead of LFE to see if you like the sound better. If that case, in the AVR, set L/R to "large" and sub to "No" and use the sub's Xover and EQs if present.