Ever had that "I wasted my money" feeling?

[geedee]

So.... maybe this should be in a different topic (mods please move if it should be!) but it fits here because I'm specifically talking about my new AVR.

Years ago (about 11 or so) I bought an Onkyo/Integra 989 as I wanted to move "up" to surround sound. I was very, very happy with it. It sounded gorgeous, even though it was running speakers that no doubt could be improved on.

A couple of years ago I bought our first big LCD TV, with stacks of HDMI inputs. Then an Apple TV with only an HDMI out and optical audio out. I ran that by plugging HDMI straight to the TV and an optical link to the 989. Same with the PS3, and the DVD player.

For some reason, this round of "Boxing Day Sales" I got that itch... I'm sure most of you have had it.

I convinced myself that it was time to move on.... to get an AVR that could process video, upscale DVD to 1080p, use neat HDMI cables for both audio and video (saves on clutter, you see!) and process the "new" sound formats (or whatever you call them... you know, Dolby -HD etc. etc.).

However, I can't afford as much now as I could then, and went for "mid-range" instead of "Flagship". I thought that in 11 years things would have moved on, and it would sound better anyway.

First I bought an Anthem MRX 300. I took it back the next day. I know I didn't run the set-up software, but it sounded pretty bad (to my ears) compared to the 989.

I swapped it for an Integra 50.4 (after paying several hundred more much-needed dollars!). It sounded much better out of the box, and really good after running Audyssey..... but not "wow, I'm glad I swapped my AVR" good. Truth is, I couldn't remember how good the 989 sounded, and couldn't be bothered to swap all those wires again to compare.

Then I realised a lot of the new processing formats can't yet be used by me, as I'm running 5.1. I then realised even if I get two more speakers, the Apple TV & iTunes only does Dolby Digital anyway.... which my 989 was running 11 years ago.

The PS3 says it does all these super new formats, but when I play a Bluray Disc through it, it still shows up as PCM.... I heard that it is actually outputting something much better, but the receiver still sees it as PCM....

So, until I buy two more speakers and a new BD player, I'm not hearing the benefits. I doubt I'll buy a BD player because I pretty much stopped buying discs a couple of years ago.... sitting through those FBI warnings and trailers that were hard to skip helped convert me to digital download only!

Well, that's got that off my chest.!

In a nutshell, I feel I've been lured by a dream of ever-improving audio nirvana.... and ended up spending a heap of cash for no real improvement on what I already had.

Anyone else get those sort of feelings???

 

[bizmord]

Make sure your receiver is set to decode correctly. I had my receiver for 2 years now and just yesterday learned a crucial function. I am assuming since u bought your receiver a few days ago u have yet to learn it.

I am not a professional and surely have things to learn myself, but, after upgrading my 10 year old home theater in the box by spending over $3,000, i did learn something.

biggest improvement was getting good speakers. I went for quality rather than just number of watts. Close second was the awesome sub. A friend of my says my sub deservs to be in a museum. i like that comment.

receiver ..... Really depends on how it's set up.
Good luck

 

[avnetguy]

The PS3 says it does all these super new formats, but when I play a Bluray Disc through it, it still shows up as PCM.... I heard that it is actually outputting something much better, but the receiver still sees it as PCM....

The PS3 does play all the new forrmats, I believe they need to be the "slim" models made after 2008. If you're not getting Dolby TrueHD or DTS MA then you probably just need to check your settings.

Based on how you're feeling now you might want to do a little research before you buy in the future. Boxing day sales are great and *can* save you a fair bit of cash but knowing what you're really buying before the sales come up is what really saves you money.

Steve

 

[Adam]

To answer your question - oh, sure, I sometimes feel like I wasted my money. My second amp, for example. I also still remember that time in 1996 that I got this huge beer too late in the night and couldn't finish it...oops, that's off topic, isn't it?

I ran that by plugging HDMI straight to the TV and an optical link to the 989. Same with the PS3, and the DVD player.

It's possible that your TV was converting the HDMI audio into two-channel stereo for output over that optical link. A lot of TVs do that. Were you getting real surround sound before?

Then I realised a lot of the new processing formats can't yet be used by me, as I'm running 5.1. I then realised even if I get two more speakers, the Apple TV & iTunes only does Dolby Digital anyway.... which my 989 was running 11 years ago.

Actually, no. I used 5.1 for over three years after I got my Pioneer Elite receiver that decodes the newer codecs. The newer codecs have higher fidelity, but none of them are actually set to a specific number of channels. They are just a way of processing the audio, and they can be all the way from 1.0 mono and up. In fact, there are a lot more 5.1 titles with those codecs than 7.1 at the moment. So, you can definitely take advantage of the the newer codecs like DTS-HD...but you might not notice much improvement. Dolby Digital and DTS are really quite good. I happen to like the newer ones, but some people can't tell much difference (which is related to your equipment, your room, and you).

Also, while I haven't read the manual (a collective *gasp* from the audience ), I'll bet that your Integra can convert 5.1 (and lower) audio streams to 7.1 if you get two more speakers. It will also convert 7.1 audio to 5.1 until you do.

The PS3 says it does all these super new formats, but when I play a Bluray Disc through it, it still shows up as PCM.... I heard that it is actually outputting something much better, but the receiver still sees it as PCM....

Like Steve said, check your audio options on the PS3. Which model do you have? I have the Slim, and I can choose between outputting PCM (which means that the PS3 decodes the audio codec for the receiver) or bitstream (which means that the PS3 will send the raw audio stream to the receiver for decoding). If the PS3 decodes it, then your receiver with show "PCM." If your receiver decodes it, the it will show whatever the actual codec is (e.g. "DTS-HD MA").

 

[panteragstk]

I'll add my own experience to what has already been said. I purchased a Kenwood (old, yes) AVR about 13 years ago that one of the first non high end AVR's to decode DTS. It worked very well for me for a very long time. It was only 5.1 and for years I wanted a 7.1 receiver. This was before blu-ray and HD audio. I use an HTPC for everything so I got my parent's old Kenwood HTIB receiver and used both as amps and configured my PC to output 7.1 analog. It was nice, but those back speakers didn't do a whole lot. I was disappointed. Then the center channel in my Kenwood died and it was time for a new receiver. I got a Pioneer 5.1 receiver with HDMI and HD audio decoding ability that had pre-outs for the back channels so I used the HTIB receiver for the extra channels. I was happy to be able to bitstream HD audio instead of using analog out from the HTPC. It sounded pretty good for how little it cost. Then the Onkyo TX-NR809 went on sale and I couldn't pass it up. With it's 7.1 capability without the extra amp I was happy to have everything in one box. Same HDMI and HD audio capability, but it had Audyssey so it was a worthwhile upgrade. I hooked it up and was disappointed with how little difference it made with the same speakers and the same room. I always calibrated with my SPL meter so that's what I did before running Audyssey. It sounded almost exactly the same as the cheapo Pioneer. Once I ran Audyssey I found out what I was paying for. My system never sounded so good. With the ability to do DSX, I'm very excited to try that out when the time comes to add more speakers. I'm very happy with my purchase.

The moral of my story is this: I knew that when I was moving from receiver to receiver that I wanted specific things each of them offered. I knew that they had the same general setup internally (audio decoder and amps), but still thought that there would be this life altering difference in the way things sound. Once you have a good receiver that decodes digital audio of some sort (meaning dolby digital or above) you aren't going to hear this HUGE difference like you would coming from Dolby Pro Logic to digital formats. While you may not be ecstatic with your purchase, keep in mind that an AVR as old as your previous one may not have lasted much longer anyway. If you are happy with the way it sounds, and aren't pissed at the money you spent, then you did good. If you really don't want to spend the money on a receiver right now, then invest in better speakers. You can always get better speakers...except for Gene apparently, he's done.

 

[geedee]

Thank you all! Some very useful, and encouraging, comments in there!

I'm not really moaning... ..... it's just that I expected to be a bit more awed!!

Next on the list is speakers.... I'm going to chuck a couple of floor standers in there somewhere, when I've saved up!

The info about bitstream for the PS3 is welcome.... it's not that clear in the PS3 manual. I'll change that setting now and see what the receiver displays.

I am also using the fact that my 989 is 11 years old, and may be due to croak any day.... but it's been used pretty much daily and showed no signs of wanting to expire. It's built like a brick out-house!