How many of you have surround sound without a center channel?

M

Mancave

Audioholic Intern
I was reading an article on cnet that said to forget about the center channel. I've seen other threads that say to get the best fronts first and then let the dialog go to those speakers.

Just curious if any of you have surround and have no center channel or want no center.

edit: for movies
 
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B

bikemig

Audioholic Chief
I've been running 2.1 (and even 2.0) for a long time. I've never thought that I needed a center speaker. I might get surrounds one day or I might not. I like the way my system sounds.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
I tried running without a center channel once, when my amp went out, but I didn't like it.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Te center channel anchors the dialog to the center position.

Running a home theatre without a center channel can work if the right and left speakers have good to exceptional imaging and only the one person in that one sweet spot will be listening to it. Everyone else will be short-changed.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
I was reading an article on cnet that said to forget about the center channel. I've seen other threads that say to get the best fronts first and then let the dialog go to those speakers.

Just curious if any of you have surround and have no center channel or want no center.

edit: for movies
Unless you have high quality L/R you need a center channel IMHO.

The other issue is that many center channels will sound boxy and have poor off axis response unless they are well designed and use quality drivers as somewhat stated in that article. As a point of fact, and horizontally oriented speaker will not have the off axis response of a vertically oriented one, but that doesn't mean you can't get a very nice sounding center.

I think that article makes some interesting points, but leaves a lot to be desired in terms of providing real information. If you watch a lot of movies, and don't have speakers with excellent imaging and a nice big soudstage, then I think having a center of some sort to anchor the dialog is essential.
 
M

Mancave

Audioholic Intern
Unless you have high quality L/R you need a center channel IMHO.

The other issue is that many center channels will sound boxy and have poor off axis response unless they are well designed and use quality drivers as somewhat stated in that article. As a point of fact, and horizontally oriented speaker will not have the off axis response of a vertically oriented one, but that doesn't mean you can't get a very nice sounding center.

I think that article makes some interesting points, but leaves a lot to be desired in terms of providing real information. If you watch a lot of movies, and don't have speakers with excellent imaging and a nice big soudstage, then I think having a center of some sort to anchor the dialog is essential.
I don't want to hijack my own thread but can you name ones you consider as adequate for this purpose, movies, center channel speaker?
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
I would suggest you start by reading these if you haven't. I can also provide a list of centers that I've heard that I believe are pretty darn good, but before that I think reading these will help you even more because they will help you identify design principles to look for if and when you go shopping for a center.

One last thing I'll add is that a big knock against horizontally aligned centers is the poor off axis performance compared to vertically aligned centers. However, how far off axis you really are from the center isn't nearly as extreme as most people would have you believe. Especially if there are only one or two people.

Pros & Cons of Various Center Channel Designs — Reviews and News from Audioholics

Vertical vs Horizontal Center Speaker Designs — Reviews and News from Audioholics

Vertical vs Horizontal Center Channel Speaker Designs

Center Channel Speaker Design Additional Considerations — Reviews and News from Audioholics
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
I don't want to hijack my own thread but can you name ones you consider as adequate for this purpose, movies, center channel speaker?
Your best bet is to get the one rom the same manufacturer and line as your front left and right speakers.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Remember it's not only the speaker chosen, but where listeners are placed (as noted above), and where the speaker itself is placed. Even with a "decent" horiz center speaker, if you choose to shove it inside (an extremely resonant/resonant) shelf, and say it's rear ported as well, and then it's also placed far too low, without being angled up, and a coffee table is also blocking its path, well, the odds are that omitting the center is better. I'd sure vote for no center there. Worst case scenario, maybe, but just making a point, there are all sorts of scenarios you see with the CC, I'm sure you've noted.

OTOH, if it's placed at ear level, on top of a cabinet, but also decoupled or isolated from it, you're not limited by a puny size, etc, then I vote for having the center.

So otherwise the issue that seems to be most talked about is off axis response. If you're front and center, I would definitely still go with a horiz MTM (assuming I had to go horiz on a limited budget). Coincidental drivers will not have the same offaxis lobing issue, and the WTMW design have the offaxis lobing to occur at low enough frequencies, where they are simply not offensive to our hearing senses.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
Remember it's not only the speaker chosen, but where listeners are placed (as noted above), and where the speaker itself is placed. Even with a "decent" horiz center speaker, if you choose to shove it inside (an extremely resonant/resonant) shelf, and say it's rear ported as well, and then it's also placed far too low, without being angled up, and a coffee table is also blocking its path, well, the odds are that omitting the center is better. I'd sure vote for no center there. Worst case scenario, maybe, but just making a point, there are all sorts of scenarios you see with the CC, I'm sure you've noted.
.
You almost described my situation perfectly but I still like it better than running "phantom". I have done the best I can but at the end of the day, it is still rear ported and still stuffed in a credenza.



BTW, it sounds clear as a bell and dialog is really good.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
But it's isolated from the cabinet and probably has a little room to breath in a compartment that is by no means airtight.

I think it would be interesting to listen to it as it is, then take it out, place it on the floor in front of the entertainment center and angle it up and see if there is any difference to giving it more space to breath.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
But it's isolated from the cabinet and probably has a little room to breath in a compartment that is by no means airtight.

I think it would be interesting to listen to it as it is, then take it out, place it on the floor in front of the entertainment center and angle it up and see if there is any difference to giving it more space to breath.
It used to live set up on it's end out in front of everything. Sounds about the same.

It has about 6" of room where the port is in the back.

Once my wife isn't about to kill me, I will likely hang the plasma on the wall and put a Studio CC-690 on the top of the Credenza.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
My bedroom (running Paradigm S2 fronts). I stopped using the matching center and sold it because it was both more pleasing and easier to understand dialog without it.

My parent's family room: Energy C2's. I turned off the center channel when I was down for Thanksgiving. It improved the sound and clarity to the ears of all involved.

My family room: never tried a center (location not conducive). Many different speaker sets.

My parents bedroom. Polk wall-mount things. Running with center. Sounds better with center.
 
W

wingnutty1

Enthusiast
I had a system in a prior home without a center and it made it hard to hear conversations within movies at times.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
I prefer a center, but in a small room with just a few seats its not a must have... I had a 3.1 for my pc before and it sounds better as a 2.1...
 
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