Another bookshelf thread...

[elmorage]

I am pretty sure I saw the NHT crossover issue in a tech review/test article, and it may have been more than one. I also saw it a few times in forum discussions, enough to make me cross them off the list when there are so many other highly recommended options.

While it is a huge upgrade from what I have now, I don't think the rw-12d sub I have ordered is considered great. From what I can tell it is on the higher end of the budget/value subs.

As much as I enjoy these forums, this is crazy. It didn't take me this long to buy a car.

 

[jcl]

The absolute zeros were at the top of my list until I read about the difficulty blending them with a sub. I don't think I want to set the crossover at 100 and deal with the possibility of sound bouncing back and forth, especially since the sub is in the back of my room.

Not sure I understand you here. Are you worried about having to set a crossover so high that the bass from the sub is localizable? If you use an AVR to set the crossover you should be able to avoid this with the Absolute Zero. Could you be confusing the Super Zero and the Absolute Zero? The HomeTheater reviews have the -3 of the Super Zero listed as 110 hz, while the absolute was 83 hz.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

The HSU is another nice speaker. Being that it utilizes a horn loaded HF driver, the speaker overall is more "dynamic" than the infinity and also slightly more sensitive. I would probably favor the infinity over the HSU for music only but since you're up to 95% movies/games- I would lean toward the HSU... BUT, with the budget I could easily kick out the HSU as an option since the Klipsch RB51 is an option and is a much more exciting speaker than the HB1 in my opinion. The bass is more natural and the highs more transparent. I would go with the Klipsch over the HSU without hesitation.

I Have not heard RB51, but HSU HB-1 sounded quite nice, I heard few musical samples and they sounded crisp and open. Horn loaded twitter might sound too sharp, but I didn't find HB-1 fatiguing at least not for 10 minutes I was listening to them on AH GTG 2012.

 

[zieglj01]

While it is a huge upgrade from what I have now, I don't think the rw-12d sub I have ordered is considered great. From what I can tell it is on the higher end of the budget/value subs.

As much as I enjoy these forums, this is crazy. It didn't take me this long to buy a car.

Nothing is ever guaranteed as far as the so-called best. Sometimes
it is better to slow down and stop over-thinking. You are restricted
somewhat because of your room set-up compromises to begin with.

You need to remember based on budget, some options are limited,
However, the recommendations are a nice step-up from what you
have. If you want so-called better/great, then change the room and
save up some more money.

Sometimes you need to just stop the ball of confusion, and make a
decision and go with it.

 

[kini]

I am pretty sure I saw the NHT crossover issue in a tech review/test article, and it may have been more than one. I also saw it a few times in forum discussions, enough to make me cross them off the list when there are so many other highly recommended options.

While it is a huge upgrade from what I have now, I don't think the rw-12d sub I have ordered is considered great. From what I can tell it is on the higher end of the budget/value subs.

As much as I enjoy these forums, this is crazy. It didn't take me this long to buy a car.

I use 5 of the NHT SuperZeros with a crossover of 100hz and there is no sub localization nor any voices coming from the sub.

Plus with the NHTs if you don't like them send them back. They have a trial period.

 

[psbfan9]

elmorage,

I have a pair of PSB Alpha B1's and the matching Alpha C1 center with a pair of PSB mini's (for surrounds) that I will sell for $300.00, shipped. Unless you live in Canada then shipping you would be more.

They are all in like new condition.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/members/psbfan9-albums-speakers.html

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I use 5 of the NHT SuperZeros with a crossover of 100hz and there is no sub localization nor any voices coming from the sub.

Plus with the NHTs if you don't like them send them back. They have a trial period.

I've never had issues with my SuperZero when I owned them for 10 years as well. I thought they were among the best speakers I've ever heard.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not sure I understand you here. Are you worried about having to set a crossover so high that the bass from the sub is localizable? If you use an AVR to set the crossover you should be able to avoid this with the Absolute Zero. Could you be confusing the Super Zero and the Absolute Zero? The HomeTheater reviews have the -3 of the Super Zero listed as 110 hz, while the absolute was 83 hz.

"The Absolute Zero’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +0.94/–0.82 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 83 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 72 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 5.19 ohms at 192 Hz and a phase angle of –46.25 degrees at 111 Hz."

NHT Absolute Zero Speaker System HT Labs Measures | Home Theater

And that's pseudo-anechoic. In-room response should be even lower than 83Hz. The -6dB pseudo-anechoic is also well below 80Hz.

But that +0.94dB/-0.82dB is absolutely unbelievable. Crazy. Unreal.

I should buy the Absolute Zero just for that FR!

 

[alphaiii]

Personally, I'd skip the NHT Super Zero 2.0 due to the lack of bass and need for a high xover. Many people use 100Hz, but that is too low IMO, based on measured response of those speakers and Audyssey results of the speakers in my room.

The Absolute Zero however, doesn't need that high of a xover. Unless you are demanding high SPL, it should be comfortable at 90Hz depending on placement and SPL demands. I owned a pair for awhile, and I never found blending with a sub to be an issue.

The Absolute Zero is a nice little speaker, and IMO, much better than the SZ 2.0. That said, some could find the AZ too "clinical" sounding, where the SZ 2.0 sounds more relaxed, at the expense of being less detailed.

I also had the PSB Image B4 for awhile, and in my experience, the AZ plays deeper than the B4... at the expense of needing a little more power to get as loud.

The Image B4 does play deeper than the SZ 2.0 though... and is also easier to drive. It'd be a clear pick over the SZ 2.0 as well for me...

 

[alphaiii]

elmorage,

I have a pair of PSB Alpha B1's and the matching Alpha C1 center with a pair of PSB mini's (for surrounds) that I will sell for $300.00, shipped. Unless you live in Canada then shipping you would be more.

They are all in like new condition.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/members/psbfan9-albums-speakers.html

Which PSB mini's - Alpha LR1?

 

[agarwalro]

"The Absolute Zero’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +0.94/–0.82 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz."

NHT Absolute Zero Speaker System HT Labs Measures | Home Theater

But that +0.94dB/-0.82dB is absolutely unbelievable. Crazy. Unreal.

I should buy the Absolute Zero just for that FR!

The 5 point average is a bogus measurement. By its very nature it hides the inaccuracy/ bad measurement. I rather have the polar waterfall plots if the off axis performance needs to be judged. If not polar waterfall, I'd rather have the on-axis FR straight up. At least there is unambiguity with the on-axis FR plot. If there is a peak or a dip, there is a peak or a dip. None of the, peak on the -15 cancels out a dip in the +15 type situation.

 

[elmorage]

The Absolute Zero is a nice little speaker, and IMO, much better than the SZ 2.0. That said, some could find the AZ too "clinical" sounding, where the SZ 2.0 sounds more relaxed, at the expense of being less detailed.

I also had the PSB Image B4 for awhile, and in my experience, the AZ plays deeper than the B4... at the expense of needing a little more power to get as loud.

The Image B4 does play deeper than the SZ 2.0 though... and is also easier to drive. It'd be a clear pick over the SZ 2.0 as well for me...

The NHT are getting a lot of support, maybe I should take another look at those. I am not trying to be argumentative or trash a speaker that people love, I am just thinking if that is a potential issue why not avoid it entirely and go with something else. How would you compare the AZ to the cambridge s30 at half the price?

Also, does anyone agree with the hsu rep who said that rotating the horn would allow them to lay horizontally?

 

[psbfan9]

Which PSB mini's - Alpha LR1?

No, I mistyped. I have the PSB Alpha "Mites" not minis. I had the LR1's, but they were not very good.

 

[zieglj01]

The NHT are getting a lot of support, maybe I should take another look at those. I am not trying to be argumentative or trash a speaker that people love

Also, does anyone agree with the hsu rep who said that rotating the horn would allow them to lay horizontally?

Like NHT, yes > Love NHT, no >> measururements do not guarantee
overall sound quality and resolution.
As far as HSU and rotating the tweeter, that should be better than just
laying it down - other than that, the performace would be subjective.

 

[elmorage]

Heard back again from hsu. They said that rotating the horn will provide the same orientation as their center channel which is designed to sit horizontally. Made a lot of sense to me, but I don't know much about speakers.

 

[zieglj01]

Heard back again from hsu. They said that rotating the horn will provide the same orientation as their center channel which is designed to sit horizontally. Made a lot of sense to me, but I don't know much about speakers.

They are saying, you can use 1 of the speakers as a center channel

 

[elmorage]

Took a break from the forum for a while to try an focus on one model. I have spent quite a bit of time trying to zero in on information about the Hsu HB-1, and just about everything I have read is overwhelmingly positive. The only bad thing I saw was a shootout where it got burned by a set of Polks, but it looks like they used the mk1 verison.

I also reached out to a few of the manufacturers about my placement issues, and Hsu was the only one to respond. At this point I have traded six emails back and forth with them and still no response from the others like NHT and infinity.

Getting close to a decision here...

 

[3db]

Out of that list...the PSB B4s. Great imaging speaker, nice tight bass for its size, easy to drive, and easy on the eyes.

 

[elmorage]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone that offered an opinion and helped me with my list. My goal for making the thread was to get some ideas of what may be appropriate for my use and in my price range. I got some great suggestions, some that verified what I was already thinking, and some that were brand new ideas. In the end, as zeiglj said, I just have to make up my mind but you have all helped me narrow it down and I appreciate it. After all, I had never heard of cambridge, nht, htd, focal, ascend, or really anything other than the stuff at best buy.

At this point I am thinking of going with the hsu hb-1 setup. The phone call to tech support yesterday where I actually spoke to Dr. Hsu pretty much sealed the deal. I asked the tech support guy a question and when he couldn't answer I was put on hold for "someone that knows more about the product". I never expected him to get on the phone himself, but I was impressed that he took a few minutes to patiently answer my very basic questions.