Another bookshelf thread...

[elmorage]

I apologize for yet another "help me buy speakers" thread, but as useful as it was, the "best bookshelf speakers < $350" has a lot of outdated information at this point. Some of the highly recommended speakers aren't even available anymore so I thought it might be useful to get a fresh start. I understand listening to different options would be ideal but there is nowhere to listen to anything but mainstream speakers locally. Since I don't recognize many of the good brands I kind of rely on the forums to get information.

I am looking to upgrade my current 5.1 setup of athena point 5's with new speakers all around. I have a denon 1713 and a klipsch rw-12d already on the way, so I am looking for LCR and surrounds. Use is 95% movies and gaming, space limits require bookshelf models only, and my budget is about $800 for all 5 speakers although I could push to $1000 for something special.

Here are some popular models I have read about so far, I would appreciate some input or recommendations if I have left out something good.

Infinity primus p163
Cambridge S30
Hsu hb-1
PSB B4

I have also seen the pioneer BS22 and Ascend cbm170 but I don't really care for the appearance of either of those models. Stupid reason to eliminate them, but I am not sure I want to see them in my living room for the next 10 years.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Focal 705V WENGE for $400/pr x 3 pr = $1200. Over budget, but might be worth it.

Dedicated Audio - Focal Chorus 705V Loudspeaker -- WENGE

Otherwise, the NHT Absolute Zero @ $200 each x 5 = $1000 delivered. These are the best measured speakers ever reviewed by HTM (+/-0.9dB FR 200Hz-20kHz).

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=NHT+absolute+zero

 

[adwilk]

Fair warning, the more you read here without not being able to listen, the more confusing it might ultimately get. You have a ton of options in your price range. The NHT posted earlier is truly a world class setup IMO opinion though.

That said- in trying to help you figure out what you're going to enjoy the most- is there anything in particular you're looking to improve on specifically with your current Athena setup? That might help us have a better idea of what speakers you might like the most.

Everybody is a little different, but I would skew the budget a bit using the majority of the money for the LCR and a bit less for the surrounds. If you pushed the budget to a grand- spending up to 700-750 on the front 3 and the balance on the surrounds will yield a better experience overall than using 5 identical speakers if you pick the right stuff. Again, thats just my opinion.

From your list... the Infinity is a nice speaker with lots of people happy with them. They measure and perform beyond their price point. Personally- for movies I find them a bit vanilla. I like something that moves around the room a little more and is more "dynamic". Again, thats a preference.

The HSU is another nice speaker. Being that it utilizes a horn loaded HF driver, the speaker overall is more "dynamic" than the infinity and also slightly more sensitive. I would probably favor the infinity over the HSU for music only but since you're up to 95% movies/games- I would lean toward the HSU... BUT, with the budget I could easily kick out the HSU as an option since the Klipsch RB51 is an option and is a much more exciting speaker than the HB1 in my opinion. The bass is more natural and the highs more transparent. I would go with the Klipsch over the HSU without hesitation.

 

[agarwalro]

The S30 for $219/pair is a good performer (for a small room). I have not heard them, but they measure well.

I like the look of the Audioengine P4 in Bamboo $325/pair. Get 4 of these to run 4.1 for now. Later add Ascend Sierra-1 in Natural Bamboo for LCR and move the P4 to surrounds.

 

[elmorage]

Thanks for the help, I can't be the only one looking in this price range and I would love to see an active thread with currently available equipment.

ADTG- Those focals may be a bit out of my league. I could PUSH to 1000 for something remarkable, but that would most likely max me out. I am basically measuring cost against the infinitys because the sale is pretty aggressive, (4 p163 and a pc351 for $500). I could spring for the NHTs but at double the price are they double the speaker?

I admit my ignorance but I don't know what those measurements mean. What do they translate to for an average joe?

I see you recommended two setups with 5 identical speakers. Do you generally avoid a matching center or is it just the way to go for those two setups?

Adwilk- That is happening already, paralysis by analysis. I am getting a bit bogged down, but I am not in a huge rush anyway and I enjoy spending time reading about this stuff. There is nothing specific about the athenas that fall short, I was just thinking with the upgrade in receiver and sub it would be a good time. I was in school when I bought those, and they were a budget option to avoid HTIB. Now that I make decent money I figured I could step up to something better. The point 5s are ok but I think they would be better as surrounds than fronts.

I was really into the hsu setup for a while until I read that blind test where they did the pepsi challenge and the hsus kept getting beat. That cooled me off a bit on those but I will definitely look into the rb51.

agar- That was my concern with the cambridge s30. My room is not very large, maybe 15x18, but it opens into the dining room and hallway which adds some area.

 

[adwilk]

You could continue to use the Athenas as surrounds for now and just purchase LCR.. But I'm sure you've already thought of that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks for the help, I can't be the only one looking in this price range and I would love to see an active thread with currently available equipment.

ADTG- Those focals may be a bit out of my league. I could PUSH to 1000 for something remarkable, but that would most likely max me out. I am basically measuring cost against the infinitys because the sale is pretty aggressive, (4 p163 and a pc351 for $500). I could spring for the NHTs but at double the price are they double the speaker?

I admit my ignorance but I don't know what those measurements mean. What do they translate to for an average joe?

I see you recommended two setups with 5 identical speakers. Do you generally avoid a matching center or is it just the way to go for those two setups?

Adwilk- That is happening already, paralysis by analysis. I am getting a bit bogged down, but I am not in a huge rush anyway and I enjoy spending time reading about this stuff. There is nothing specific about the athenas that fall short, I was just thinking with the upgrade in receiver and sub it would be a good time. I was in school when I bought those, and they were a budget option to avoid HTIB. Now that I make decent money I figured I could step up to something better. The point 5s are ok but I think they would be better as surrounds than fronts.

I was really into the hsu setup for a while until I read that blind test where they did the pepsi challenge and the hsus kept getting beat. That cooled me off a bit on those but I will definitely look into the rb51.

agar- That was my concern with the cambridge s30. My room is not very large, maybe 15x18, but it opens into the dining room and hallway which adds some area.

You could also do NHT SuperZero x 5 = $500.

Or NHT Absolute Zero x 3 & SuperZero x 2 = $800.

The Absolute Zero intrigue me since they have the best speaker FR measurement I have ever seen on HTM regardless of price - even better than Salon2, Paradigm S8, PSB Synchrony, and every speaker.

 

[hizzaah]

You could continue to use the Athenas as surrounds for now and just purchase LCR.. But I'm sure you've already thought of that.

My first thought.. Could almost squeeze in the Focal 814V LCR from A4L
FOCAL Chorus 814V 716v Dual 6½ Floorstanding Speakers Gloss Black Pair | Accessories4less
FOCAL Chorus CC814V 800V Dual 6½" Center Speaker Gloss Black Each | Accessories4less

 

[zieglj01]

agar- That was my concern with the cambridge s30. My room is not very large, maybe 15x18, but it opens into the dining room and hallway which adds some area.

So, do we really think that they will begin to faint - and will
sound like wimpy speakers, standing in a corner and crying?

 

[ImcLoud]

I would reconsider the cmb170's they are very nice and on sale... and in your budget...

Also Wharfedale diamonds are worth a listen...
10.1 WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10.1 BOOKSHELF SPEAKER (PR) at Music Direct

10cc center $199 WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10 CC CENTER CHANNEL SPEAKER (ROSEWOOD) **DEMO** at Music Direct

10sr $229 WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10 SR SURROUND SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct

would be in budget or step up to 10.2's and 10cs for a couple hundred more...

 

[elmorage]

I briefly considered keeping the athenas as my surrounds, but I think I may just move my whole current setup into the den or office. The system still works, it's just getting demoted.

Maybe the classification means nothing, but crutchfield considers the absolute zeros as satellite speakers. Isn't that why I am dumping the point fives to begin with? Will they have enough juice to work as fronts? Still don't know what those test results mean, are they similar to the subwoofer graphs floating around the forums? I like that they are the best, that has to be good no matter what it means.

zeiglj- haha, wasn't trying to emasculate the s30, they are in my top 3 just based on feedback from avs. just a little concerned when they are built so small, but again that's my own ignorance. kinda goes hand in hand with never hearing of half these brands that are mentioned in forums but i am trying to work through that.


on a side note, i am pretty space-challenged hence the need for bookshelves instead of towers. right now my speakers are laid horizontally on the top shelf of my tv stand. i know it isn't ideal, but is a horizontal orientation a dealbreaker for any of these models we are discussing, or speakers in general for that matter? are there any that would be less affected by being sideways?

i know putting them in a cabinet would be awful, but it is just a shelf so technically it is only closed top and bottom, and the four sides are open air.

 

[elmorage]

Just read something about the absolute zeros needing a crossover at 100 rather than 80, which caused some directionality and voices to be heard from the sub. Sounds like it would be a shortcoming.

 

[agarwalro]

right now my speakers are laid horizontally on the top shelf of my tv stand. i know it isn't ideal, but is a horizontal orientation a dealbreaker for any of these models we are discussing, or speakers in general for that matter? are there any that would be less affected by being sideways?

i know putting them in a cabinet would be awful, but it is just a shelf so technically it is only closed top and bottom, and the four sides are open air.

Bookshelf speakers, for the most part, are not designed to be laid on their side. The designer most likely made compromises/ design choices keeping the tweeter vertically over the mid. By laying it on the side, there is no saying how badly the behavior will be screwed up. It is like being way off to the side (when the speaker is standing up). Conceivably, you might be to the "above the tweeter" in some situation and this is an absolute no-no. At minimum, use door stops to angle the speaker towards your listening position. The Kef Q100 bookshelf will be less affected.

IMO, there is no point spending any money on a new setup and crippling it from the get go. Just bide time and save money until you can have a properly placed setup.

 

[elmorage]

Bookshelf speakers, for the most part, are not designed to be laid on their side. The designer most likely made compromises/ design choices keeping the tweeter vertically over the mid. By laying it on the side, there is no saying how badly the behavior will be screwed up. It is like being way off to the side (when the speaker is standing up). Conceivably, you might be to the "above the tweeter" in some situation and this is an absolute no-no. At minimum, use door stops to angle the speaker towards your listening position.

IMO, there is no point spending any money on a new setup and crippling it from the get go. Just bide time and save money until you can have a properly placed setup.

I was afraid of that, that's why I asked. It isn't a matter of saving money though, it is a space issue. The TV and stand are nestled in between the hallway opening and the swing of the front door. The TV takes up the entire top shelf of the stand, so the only way to get speakers upright on each side would be a bigger tv stand with room on the sides or speaker stands on each side and I do not have room for either. Other than buying a new house or replacing a fairly new 61" tv I don't see an alternative to laying them sideways.

When you think about it, aren't most center channels arranged just like a bookshelf laying on its side anyway? Would something with a horn tweeter like the klipsch rb or hsu hb-1 be better?

 

[zieglj01]

i know putting them in a cabinet would be awful, but it is just a shelf so technically it is only closed top and bottom, and the four sides are open air.

How much space is here - and how deep?

 

[elmorage]

How much space is here - and how deep?

With the stand we have right now not much at all so we are considering replacing it. The shelf itself is small and then there is a flap overhanging the shelf. I have the athenas horizontal and they barely fit. Unfortunately most stands have limited space on the lower shelves, which is one of the reasons I haven't bought the infintys yet. Even on their sides they would be 8 1/4 inches tall.

The biggest shelf clearance I have found was 10 inches, which would at least fit the cambridge or the nht vertically but my wife hates it. Most of the depths are around 16-18 inches.

 

[zieglj01]

^^^^Looks like your best option is to replace the stand first.

 

[hizzaah]

I would reconsider the cmb170's they are very nice and on sale... and in your budget...

I agree, they aren't the prettiest speakers in the world, but I love mine! If you take the grills off, they really aren't that bad to look at. The cones have a nice metallic grey metal color to them. You can get 5 170SE's for $772 shipped with their package builder

Ascend System Advisor

With the stand we have right now not much at all so we are considering replacing it. The shelf itself is small and then there is a flap overhanging the shelf. I have the athenas horizontal and they barely fit. Unfortunately most stands have limited space on the lower shelves, which is one of the reasons I haven't bought the infintys yet. Even on their sides they would be 8 1/4 inches tall.

The biggest shelf clearance I have found was 10 inches, which would at least fit the cambridge or the nht vertically but my wife hates it. Most of the depths are around 16-18 inches.

Do you have room to place stands? I got stands with my Ascends and they're extremely sturdy and make placement easy..

 

[elmorage]

I wish I had room for stands, but anything over 2 inches on each side would either stick out into the hallway or get knocked over by the front door.

The way I see it I have three options:

1- Ditch my TV, hang a plasma on the wall and put the speakers on top of the stand. 0% chance

2- Buy the speakers I really want, whatever they may be, and arrange them horizontally on the top shelf of an open tv stand.

3- Find a stand with enough shelf clearance to at least fit something small like the s30 or absolute zero vertically.

 

[hizzaah]

Maybe you could post a diagram with dimensions to show the space we're workin with here. Maybe have a visual representation with dimensions will let some of us come up with something maybe you didn't think of..?