Drummer Headphones

[Trev]

Hey fellas.

Kind of in a bind with band recording. I've got a garage band who don't get together often, so what we wind up having to do... well I have to write all the guitar tracks at home and I bring them to the sessions.

Drummer has a hard time listening to the tracks and jamming along with them, without his drums drowning the recording out.

He needs to be able to listen to the tracks while cancelling the sound of his drums outside of the headphones. I can manage to loop his mic'd drums back through the headphones so that he can hear what he's doing live side by side with the guitar, so hearing himself faintly outside the phones is not a requirement whatsoever.

Just need absolute isolation. The other part of this is, affordability. Audio quality is not an issue. Consumer grade audio, professional isolation. Any product recommendations around or under $150? Really appreciate any help or purchasing advise.

 

[lsiberian]

Etymotics Research has several options.
Amazon.com: Etymotic Research HF5 Portable In-Ear Earphones (Cobalt): Electronics

They are ear plugs with a built in headphone. The accuracy is very high too.

Please understand they are 28db filters and it can be a bit fatiguing to use them for extended periods.

 

[Trev]

Etymotics Research has several options.
Amazon.com: Etymotic Research HF5 Portable In-Ear Earphones (Cobalt): Electronics

They are ear plugs with a built in headphone. The accuracy is very high too.

Please understand they are 28db filters and it can be a bit fatiguing to use them for extended periods.

Thanks for the reply. I see they boast best isolation of up to 42db. Not sure if this happens to just be in class for in-ear earphones. Should be apparent I'm completely new to concerns of isolation and isolation hardware.

Are there any known headphones with isolation better than 42db? I've been trying to find accurate info for isolation around 100db but lacking familiarity, Google results have been hard to sift through. Lots of dead end pages with little to no info and still ranking high for search terms.

 

[jostenmeat]

Hey fellas.

Kind of in a bind with band recording. I've got a garage band who don't get together often, so what we wind up having to do... well I have to write all the guitar tracks at home and I bring them to the sessions.

Drummer has a hard time listening to the tracks and jamming along with them, without his drums drowning the recording out.

He needs to be able to listen to the tracks while cancelling the sound of his drums outside of the headphones. I can manage to loop his mic'd drums back through the headphones so that he can hear what he's doing live side by side with the guitar, so hearing himself faintly outside the phones is not a requirement whatsoever.

Just need absolute isolation. The other part of this is, affordability. Audio quality is not an issue. Consumer grade audio, professional isolation. Any product recommendations around or under $150? Really appreciate any help or purchasing advise.

It's probably my fault, but I don't exactly* get how practice is done as far as exactly where by whom, and same for when together, just two of you, then more of you, etc. Not that it matters at all to help you, just sayin'.

Budget and 100db is kinda silly. In fact, 100 db even without thinking of budget could end up silly. Not that I'm an expert by any means.

The only way you'll get even remotely close is to use both earplugs AND headphones.

Frankly, I would splurge for musician's earplugs, I know you said SQ doesn't matter, but might as well, and in the end the cost may balance out because they're not disposable. You get them custom molded. They will have tiny modules that are swappable so that you can change DB level, all the while maintaining a flatter EQ than other types. Not terribly cheap, but price is not the key to quality in the end, it's the person making the molds. Ask what the highest level of protection is when looking around. Budget close to $100, maybe considerably less if you're lucky.

Then on TOP of those, you put on noise cancelling headphones. Here is a mini review of 5 of them. Of course I'd agree with you to sacrifice SQ first for output ability + noise cancellation.

The Best Noise-Canceling Headphones - The Best Noise Canceling Headphones | Roundup | PCMag.com

Then thirdly and finally, just have the drummer back it off a tad, play a touch softer. He can try lighter skinnier sticks, maybe "hot rods", or something. MY guess* is he'll have to do this no matter what combo of things you figure.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

My 2c:
Pro-Sound Fostex T40-RP Headphones, Closed Ear Design, known as the "The Drummers Dream" - Detachable/Lock cab

or here a bit cheaper:
Fostex T40RP Headphone T40-RP B&H Photo Video

There is a good discussion here:
Headphones for Drummers - DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM

 

[Trev]

@jostenmeat

Yeah, my logic was heading the same direction with the idea of plugs + headphones. The further I dug, the more hopeless perfect isolation became. I'm kind of shocked that there isn't a system or better technology for it.

@boredsysadmin

Great looking recommendations for the budget. Really appreciate them!

@all

It's really fubar. I'm in a small town and all of the audio gear really's fallen on me to purchase. It seems I'm the only one with enough nerve and wants to make music that badly. So horribly that I'm trying to afford isolation for another musician to perform. Boo hoo etc... etc... That kinda explains the budget scenario. For myself - hell I'd drop $500 easy for something valuable or crucial.

Details: Probably a little above 100db in the jam space... a room 15x20 feet approximately. Angled ceilings. Hard walls. No soundproofing for equally lame reasons. 2 speakers opposite wall of the drummer in corners hooked up to PA. Guitars wherever isn't occupied. Style of music... Metal, punk, surf.

Extremely open to solutions and recommended improvements, even if they blow budget... it's great to have future plans and saving.

Recording gear:

Blue Icicle (XLR to USB)
Soundcraft 8 channel Mixer w/ effects
Shure SM58 x2
Line 6 Spider Valve 212 w/ direct XLR out

Software:

Reaper & Audacity over Windows 7

 

[STRONGBADF1]

FWIW...I own both Sennheiser HD-280 PRO's and Amazon.com: Etymotic Research MC5 Noise Isolating In-Ear Earphones (Black): Electronics. I do not play in a band but when practicing/goofing on the drums I prefer the HD-280 PRO's. They both isolate nicely but the Sennheisers do a better job with high frequencies in the recording I'm listening to. it makes a big difference.

IMO comfort and sound quality are huge when playing an instrument. If it's uncomfortable and/or doesn't sound right you wont get "in to it" as you should.

Don't over think it...get a set of good DJ headphones or spring for a set of pro monitors like Josten recommended and use them like most drummers do for rehearsal, recording or live performance as personal monitors mixed just for him.

 

[Trev]

FWIW...I own both Sennheiser HD-280 PRO's and Amazon.com: Etymotic Research MC5 Noise Isolating In-Ear Earphones (Black): Electronics. I do not play in a band but when practicing/goofing on the drums I prefer the HD-280 PRO's. They both isolate nicely but the Sennheisers do a better job with high frequencies in the recording I'm listening to. it makes a big difference.

IMO comfort and sound quality are huge when playing an instrument. If it's uncomfortable and/or doesn't sound right you wont get "in to it" as you should.

Don't over think it...get a set of good DJ headphones or spring for a set of pro monitors like Josten recommended and use them like most drummers do for rehearsal, recording or live performance as personal monitors mixed just for him.

You're very very right. I really wasn't respecting his part in it as much as I should've. The better my guitar sounds, the better I play and travel on the neck with less confusion. Shouldn't be any different for his drumming. I don't know though, if it's just flat out that he sucks or what. The only time he can drum is when he can hear my guitar... so jamming live is totally fine, and we manage to record the whole room over budget means just to basically log the session and to remember key riffs that worked well.

As soon as it comes to me going off and recording the guitar properly, and then it'll be like... "Here, Nick... I recorded the guitar up. Wanna lay a drum track over it?" .... he can't hear the changes or where to go unless I'm playing them out next to him. He's lost without hearing the rest of the jam through headphones, and his drums are so loud they drown out the playback. Currently using Denon DJ HP-1000's. Think we tried a set of Shures too...

As I mentioned - small town. This is pretty well the only group of musician's I've played with, and it's definitely not me calling the shots with them. Everyone's preferences are worked with. I'm the one being asked to write the songs before hand and show up and they'll work over them. Is this backwards? Should the drum beats come first? Then back and forth till final changes settle it all in? I'm confused. Is he maybe just incompetent?

 

[jostenmeat]

I wonder if there is a forum for rock musicians that could better help you out, if you're concerned about how to work with your drummer.

As far as which track to lay down first, I wouldn't really know, but I will say that in the end, as far as performing it will be together and simultaneous. Maybe just keep the drum practice for "your music" only for when you guys are together? He can work on his chops and other material during his own time? Just trying to exhaust ideas. Does he HAVE to practice "your" music when on his own? (Assuming you guys don't solve the noise-cancellation thingy.)

But if I had to choose which one to lay down first, it would be the drums. Then you can provide your own rubato on top of the rhythm if desired. This makes more musical sense (for the music we know here right now) than the other way around. Same would go with certain classical music, even with one person playing Chopin on a piano, the right hand can float some rubato over any ostinato of the the left hand, or whatever rhythmic figure it may provide.

 

[Trev]

@jostenmeat

Awesomely well put.

Yeah, I'd totally be up for playing any material he'd put together. Unfortunately he's more into getting wasted and four wheeling - which is where the lot of 'em tell me just to go write something and they'll jam over it. Beggars can't be choosers eh?

It's much like a group project if we were back in highschool and cool kids go get loaded counting on the nerd to get us an A. On that note, you're totally right that there should be a musician forum that covers this aspect of it.

And I think I know now that what I've got to do... is write the drums too. The isolation recommendations really are a great help all the same though. They can't hurt to be had in the arsenal. My thanks all round.