Emotiva sale

[Hostility]

thought hard about it, and ended up ordering the xpa5 and minix, One of the reasons being ive wanted one for a year now, and even if it does nothing for me its one of those things i wanted to try because if i didnt i would always wonder what if. Kind of lame but oh well. This amp will hopefully last years and last me into my first home where i can finally build a dedicated ht room.

 

[ImcLoud]

I own an xpa 5 and it is MUCH louder than the Denon 130w avr I have in my bedroom {I had it in the parlor at one point}, but the more important fact is, it just sounds better, more relaxed and effortless... Not sure what the test results say, but definetly makes a difference to my ears.. One more thing is after playing expendables nice and loud {just pushing a pair of bookshelfs and a center, no surrounds} my Denon is pretty Hot... After playing tv all day at low level, and then watching 2 back to back movies at a loud level, the XPA may as well have been off the entire time, maybe 5 degrees warmer than ambient.... Not sure if the graphs and charts and spec numbers everybody refers to show that...
Also I had my Denon {which dont get me wrong does its job} repaired once already and was a refurb when I bought it compared to the xpa 5 which I haven't had as long but has much more use on it {that is on from 7a-10p everyday vs the denon is on from 10p-12p ,auto off at midnight}... Plus the denon only gets played loud once and a while, the xpa5 is in my living room and gets the sharp end of abuse, between earth shaking video games to loud music from the kids {cable box music at that}, ect... I dont know how its not a melted pile of caps and copper...

but anyway, I know their are a ton of people on here that have a lot against separates, and swear by just getting an avr and calling it good, but try an amp out, and when your avr is trashed or out of date, buy yourself a processor only or a inexpensive avr with preouts and dont worry about how many channels that 220 watts is getting split off to, or how low your speakers impede drops.... because you will have plenty.....

One more thing, I have seen some pretty nice HT setups, from homes to store listening rooms and anything really nice always has a separate amp... {I just bid a job for a gentleman who owns a half dozen dunkin donuts, and snuck a peak at his HT, that he spent $50K on, he has 9 amps, not sure how its setup, but he has 2 custom built hidden subs, with Thiel speakers {I knew what company installed it as soon as I seen them}... But anyway I never seen a set of $10K speakers hooked to just an avr with no separate amps..
Granted if you have a small/medium room and watch what speakers you run, I know most avr's will be fine... but as soon as the rooms get larger and the speakers get harder to run, with louder materiel, that smell you notice is a mix of the epoxy they stuck in their and the various plastics and paints they use getting heated up....

 

[Cobratron]

Jumping in on this post late...but hey great purchase with the XPA-5.

I went from a AVR powering my fronts/surrounds(5 speakers) to returning that after following advice on here and getting a XPA-5 to power everything.

You def. notice a more "livening" affect with the XPA-5 even at low volumes..nothing huge. It's just more of a clean sound if you ask me. Turning it up loud is amazing...it will blow you away.


By the way not sure if you anyone knows this but you should plug in your XPA-5 directly into the outlet if possible. I talked with an Engineer from Emotiva and he told me not too use a surge protector with the amp.

 

[KEW]

Unless you have extremely demanding speakers, it seems a waste of good electronics not to use the AVR to drive some of the speakers.
A decent 5-7 channel AVR should have lots of reserves if you are only using it for 2-4 speakers!

 

[fuzz092888]

Unless you have extremely demanding speakers, it seems a waste of good electronics not to use the AVR to drive some of the speakers.
A decent 5-7 channel AVR should have lots of reserves if you are only using it for 2-4 speakers!

Not to mention that with a 32db gain it's naturally louder than the majority of AVR's which will make it sound "better" to many people.

 

[Hostility]

Jumping in on this post late...but hey great purchase with the XPA-5.

I went from a AVR powering my fronts/surrounds(5 speakers) to returning that after following advice on here and getting a XPA-5 to power everything.

You def. notice a more "livening" affect with the XPA-5 even at low volumes..nothing huge. It's just more of a clean sound if you ask me. Turning it up loud is amazing...it will blow you away.


By the way not sure if you anyone knows this but you should plug in your XPA-5 directly into the outlet if possible. I talked with an Engineer from Emotiva and he told me not too use a surge protector with the amp.

ive read that actually, been trying to determine if i should plug into wall or my belkin pf60.

 

[KeithL]

Emotiva Mini X straight to a PC with a Y-cable - why not?

Sure, that will work just fine - and the Mini-X even has its own analog volume control. (Of course you will have to hook up a real pair of passive speakers to it - it is not designed to run little self-powered "computer speakers").

I would, however, remind you that the amount of improvement you get will be limited by the sound quality of the sound card itself. The analog outputs on computer sound cards range from "pretty good" to "downright awful". Yours also might have a separate line level output, which might be better than the headphone output, so that would be another option.

If you're not happy with the result, the next step up would be to add an external DAC (which would probably give you a major step up in clarity - especially if the DAC in your sound card isn't so good). I would try the Mini-X with what you've got.... but, if you aren't satisfied and want more improvement, an outside DAC would be a better way to spend your money than a more expensive sound card.

ive done a lot of reading about adding amps def bring some more detail out which is what im going for. As for the mini, can you hook it up with just a Y cable, rca on 1 end, headphone jack into pc audio card?

 

[KeithL]

I think you're oversimplifying things a bit. The differences between receivers and separates go far beyond the simple difference in rated power.

First, let's talk about power. Any decent power amp is rated to deliver full power, all channels driven, while many receivers - especially lower cost ones - are not. Just saying "well, music never actually demands that" is a cop out. Some music DOES demand it, and some special effects on movies certainly do (like the roar of that subway train crashing into a wall - yes, even the parts NOT handled by the sub). Beyond that, unlike the nice friendly resistive loads used in power tests, some speakers are really unfriendly loads - dipping to very low impedances at certain frequencies and becoming very reactive at others. Many receivers don't do well at all with this sort of load, and the result is that they sound strained or "jumbled" on the loud passages, while an "overdesigned" power amp will handle them without sounding strained or clipping. We're not talking about hard clipping here; what we're talking about is the dialog getting hard to understand while the train is exploding with the receiver .... and not with the separate amp. On that note, most power amps will just plain deliver quite a bit more power for short periods of time than a similarly rated receiver, which also contributes to what some folks perceive as an "effortless" sense to the way they sound (that's called "dynamic headroom").

Now let's talk about isolation and specialization. In a receiver, the preamp, processor, and amplifier are all packed into one chassis - running from one power supply. While a good receiver may have separate regulators for each section, and shields to keep them from interfering with one another, compromises are still made. The individual sections are never as good as "equivalent" separate components, and there is usually some degree of interaction between them. And, of course, with a receiver you lose the option of choosing individual components that are exactly what you need, or of upgrading each part separately when and if you need to.

The proof, as they say, is in the listening. You can get a "decent" 100 wpc receiver for a few hundred dollars these days, but even a $1000 receiver (possibly rated at much more power) rarely, if ever, sounds anywhere near as good as the separates you can get for the same price. [Of course, whether you hear a major difference or not will depend on the rest of your system, and how demanding your speakers are....]

KeithL

Think about it for a minute.

Assuming you ran ARC, that means the loudest any mains speaker can ever be asked to play given the volume settings at which you listen is 100dB at the listening position. (IIRC, -10 is actually reference level on the Anthem boxes.) Let's be conservative in balancing listening distance with output from reflections, and say that means 103dB/1m. (You can be more precise by downloading an SPL meter app for your phone - JL Audio has a free one for iPhones - playing a test tone at a comfortable volume, taking a measurement ~1m away, and taking a measurement at the listening position to see how much output actually fades in your room.)

Your mains are rated 88dB/W/m. That means you need about 15dBW of power to get 103dB out of your mains. The MRX300 clipped at ~70W with 7 channels driven in HT Mag's tests, and is rated at 60W/ch. Peak output will be higher than that. Seventy watts is ~18.5dBW, and 60W is ~18dBW. So even assuming 3dB of power compression, the MRX alone is more than adequate to drive your speakers to your required levels.

So the bottom line is, all an extra amp will buy you is marginally higher power bills.

 

[KeithL]

Emotiva XPA-5 - Belkin PF-60 or straight to the wall?

All Emo's gear has built in power filtering, so really doesn't need to be connected to a power conditioner. A surge suppressor is a different beast, designed to protect your equipment from a nearby lightning strike. If you use one, just make sure that it's heavy enough to NOT limit the current flow under normal operating conditions - it should be rated to deliver a full 15 or 20 amps. (Remember, though, that nothing will stop a direct lightning strike, even the best surge suppressor - if it fits in your house - only limits the damage done by indirect strikes.)

The main concern is that the XPA-5 - like most big power amps - sometimes needs to be able to draw a lot of power to do its job well, so it really wants a nice solid connection to the mains. If you put something in the way that chokes off the power, then it may not perform at its best, and some power conditioners put a squeeze on the line which limits the available power. Also don't assume that, even though your amp doesn't have a problem with line noise, a line filter will somehow magically make it sound better - it just doesn't work that way. If you have a problem with line noise, then a line filter is a great way to solve it, otherwise simply don't bother.

ive read that actually, been trying to determine if i should plug into wall or my belkin pf60.

 

[Hostility]

All Emo's gear has built in power filtering, so really doesn't need to be connected to a power conditioner. A surge suppressor is a different beast, designed to protect your equipment from a nearby lightning strike. If you use one, just make sure that it's heavy enough to NOT limit the current flow under normal operating conditions - it should be rated to deliver a full 15 or 20 amps. (Remember, though, that nothing will stop a direct lightning strike, even the best surge suppressor - if it fits in your house - only limits the damage done by indirect strikes.)

The main concern is that the XPA-5 - like most big power amps - sometimes needs to be able to draw a lot of power to do its job well, so it really wants a nice solid connection to the mains. If you put something in the way that chokes off the power, then it may not perform at its best, and some power conditioners put a squeeze on the line which limits the available power. Also don't assume that, even though your amp doesn't have a problem with line noise, a line filter will somehow magically make it sound better - it just doesn't work that way. If you have a problem with line noise, then a line filter is a great way to solve it, otherwise simply don't bother.

thanks for the responses keith! im going to plug the xp5 into the pf60 when i first get it as it tell me how many amps that is being drawn, i know it may not be in real time, but just so i can get a feel for what its drawing amp wise, then it will be plugged directly into the wall.

As for avr/seperates you just got me even more excited to try this thing out! hopefully its on its way here.

Also as for my sound card issue. I just built this tower in sept. I will dig out the motherboard box later and find the specs on the onboad audio card. I know it had some Dolby feature with it and DTS i believe. but other then reg audio jacks i have optical out. But the mini doesn't accept that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not to mention that with a 32db gain it's naturally louder than the majority of AVR's which will make it sound "better" to many people.

It has been proven via DBTs that the differences in Amp SQ is relatively insignificant when they are TRULY volume level matched.

All the claims about amp SQ are done at home informally and not DBT and the volume is NOT TRULY volume level matched.

Power is so overrated. As Dennis Murphy says in reference to his Phil3 (4 ohm) speakers, a real 100wpc amp should be just fine.

I am powering my Phil3 with a Denon 3312 in my 18' x 20' x 12' family room open to 3 sides. I can crank the volume beyond 92dB from 3m distance and get crystal clear loud SQ without any kind of external amp even in 2.0 (no subs). If you are playing 5.1/ 2.1, the subs do all the heavy lifting and power consuming.

Power is so overrated and so are DACs.

Oh, DBTs have also proven that preamps, DAC, wires, cables, and CD players don't significantly contribute to SQ. This has been documented by The Audio Critic, employed by audiophiles, engineers, and PhDs.

 

[PENG]

I am powering my Phil3 with a Denon 3312 in my 18' x 20' x 12' family room open to 3 sides. I can crank the volume beyond 92dB from 3m distance and get crystal clear loud SQ without any kind of external amp even in 2.0 (no subs). If you are playing 5.1/ 2.1, the subs do all the heavy lifting and power consuming.

And my old Denon 3805 can drive any of my speakers from one with 90 dB/W/M to 86/W/M ( all nominal 8 ohms but minimum below 4 ohms) to over 100 dB peak using high DR Telarc CDs such as Fanfare for the Common Man with no audible distortions. The 3805 did it while pushing out the same current and voltage as my 2 channel power amps.

Power to some of us is like money, very desirable to have more whether we need them or not, but if the need is not there then they won't be automatically used/consumed but we can still feel good knowing we have them in the bank.

 

[slipperybidness]

Power is so overrated.

Power is so overrated and so are DACs.

Power is overrated: In more ways than one

DACs are over-rated if you are expecting a huge improvement vs. a good sound card. IMO, the beauty of a DAC is that it is really an out-board sound card. That removes it from the noisy environment inside the tower where it is sharing power supplied from the same transformer that supplies all the other parts. That also makes it much easier to swap when I get a new computer, or when the computers are no longer taking PCI cards, then my DAC will still work by using the outputs from the MB audio.

 

[cpp]

Not sure I agree. I have the ASUS Xonar Essence STX sound card in my Win7 machine. It sounds nice but my Mytek Stereo192-DSD DAC has a lot better bass, better highs all around a better sound image than the ASUS. I guess to each their own.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I see no point of going beyond the DACs inside the AVR or per-pro. If you don't use an AVR or per-pro, then you have to rely other DAC.

 

[Hostility]

Got my 2 amps tonight, cant believe how heavy this xpa-5 is. Got it hooked up, watched a movie but on lower levels, seems ok, nothing that has jumped out to me yet that there was a change but hopefully when the house is empty i can put it to the test. Cant wait to test out the mini.
As for that, i was looking at DAC's, and as of right now i can only go from 3.5mm to rca to the mini. Now my computer has optical out, would that be my best choice? That would lead me to get a DAC as i dont want to use an avr or pre pro. Want to keep it small and simple.

 

[cpp]

I see no point of going beyond the DACs inside the AVR or per-pro. If you don't use an AVR or per-pro, then you have to rely other DAC.

try it you might like it, it's only a few cheap bucks and you can always send one back after 30 days. I didn't believe it until I demo'd one

 

[slipperybidness]

Got my 2 amps tonight, cant believe how heavy this xpa-5 is. Got it hooked up, watched a movie but on lower levels, seems ok, nothing that has jumped out to me yet that there was a change but hopefully when the house is empty i can put it to the test. Cant wait to test out the mini.
As for that, i was looking at DAC's, and as of right now i can only go from 3.5mm to rca to the mini. Now my computer has optical out, would that be my best choice? That would lead me to get a DAC as i dont want to use an avr or pre pro. Want to keep it small and simple.

3.5mm to RCA to mini might sound OK, you should try it and see. You may or may not find a need for the DAC. Really, it depends on how good your soundcard is (in your computer that would do the DAC duties). If it's a laptop or integrated sound on the mobo, then I would say optical out to the DAC would be the way to go in your situation.

I own the USP-1 Pre and the XDA-1 DAC myself. You could find a used XDA for less than $200. It has some limitations, but overall I'm quite pleased with it.

You want to keep it simple? Then really an AVR or stereo receiver would be simpler than separates for DAC and amp. Maybe not smaller, but simpler for sure.

 

[KEW]

try it you might like it, it's only a few cheap bucks and you can always send one back after 30 days. I didn't believe it until I demo'd one

What DAC were you using before?

 

[KeithL]

There is a lot of variation in how good the DACs inside various pre / pros sound, and pre / pros have a lot more going on inside them than simply being a DAC. (A pre / pro is really more like a computer WITH a DAC than just a DAC.)

When you have surround sound stuff to decode, you need all that processing power, but when you just want to listen to pure stereo music it does tend to alter the sound to some degree. Better pre / pros offer some sort of "direct" mode that shuts off most of the processing for when you want to listen to just pure stereo music (but be careful - some have modes called that which don't bypass the processing).

A separate DAC specializes in just doing stereo music, and sometimes the difference can be dramatic (of course it all depends on what you listen to, how good the rest of your system is, how much you care, and how good your pre / pro is. Honestly, though, a very good separate DAC will almost always sound better than a very good pre / pro when playing simple stereo music. (Also remember, though, that the pre / pro probably has some useful EQ and room correction features, which a purist DAC will NOT have.)

try it you might like it, it's only a few cheap bucks and you can always send one back after 30 days. I didn't believe it until I demo'd one