Used Car - Destination fee?

[jinjuku]

Wifey wants a car with good gas mileage. I want something with some cargo capacity.

Enter a 2009 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDi with 98K miles on it. We've agreed on a price of $16K even. Which according to my research for the trim level of this car (Panoramic roof, leather, power/heated seats, NAV/Touch screen, Alloy wheels) is fair to both dealer and us.

BUT there is a $299 'Destination' fee and the car was a trade in. I am going to tell them to remove the fee or we walk away. There are plenty of fish in the sea.

Just want a gut check on this one and are there any other bogus fee's I should be haggling with them over?

Last time I bought a car was almost 14 years ago.

 

[Adam]

Do you know if it was a local trade in, or did the dealer have to have it transported from outside the area? I'm not saying to just pay the fee - but the dealer might have a reason to charge it.

 

[jinjuku]

Do you know if it was a local trade in, or did the dealer have to have it transported from outside the area? I'm not saying to just pay the fee - but the dealer might have a reason to charge it.

They said it was trade in. I doubt it was a remote trade in. Most of the googleing that I have done says the fee is bogus.

I could see such a fee if I went to CarMax and instructed them to get me something from a faraway lot... But I doubt new car dealerships get trucks to bring in used inventory.

 

[Hocky]

They said it was trade in. I doubt it was a remote trade in. Most of the googleing that I have done says the fee is bogus.

I could see such a fee if I went to CarMax and instructed them to get me something from a faraway lot... But I doubt new car dealerships get trucks to bring in used inventory.

They use that fee to cover paperwork related fees. It is nothing required, but it is pretty standard across the country.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I wouldn't pay that fee, it's bogus, and FWIW I think $16K is too much to pay for that year and model with 98K miles.

 

[jinjuku]

I would agree if it was a gasoline engine model.

 

[ImcLoud]

Dont pay that for the car, Do they have your phone number? If they do dont go back, they will be calling you, buying a car cant be rushed, I always tell people put a month aside to buy a car, go look and give out your number to the dealers that have cars you are interested in..

Heres a few tips... I am really good at buying cars, I hav ebought 11 new cars since 2007 {for my business and personal use}, Im in the middle of a 4 month long deal on a $100K coronet rite now... I just paid almost $15K less than sticker on a 2013 wrangler, that they hardly ever move on the price on...


Anyway let this dealership call you, then say, I was ready to buy the car but that $300 fee really pissed my wife off, now you guys would probably have to knock off $600 just to get her back in there, and make like you guys decided to wait until after the holidays....

Always make like its a third car, you are buying just incase you need it or when your inlaws come to visit, they have something to drive, its never a "needed" car...

Never say what you are willing to pay, when they say "whats your budget" say, "its not my budget its the deal I want, Ill spend $50K if Im getting a $80K car, I want the most for my money"...

Never like the car, always make like you are settling because they dont have what you want...
Always make like you smell something, after the test drive, say "do you smell antifreeze"?

The salesman is nothing in a dealership, this is just a drone for the salesmanager, they have no deal making power... So after you find a car you are settling for, ask the salesman what the best he can do is, he is going to check with his salesmanager, this is when you make a phone call to your "father", the salesman comes back you are on the phone, saying "yah dad its a vw jetta, like the one uncle Joe had, Oh really, yah, this one actually smealt like antifreeze, oh wow, ok talk to you later " now hang up the phone and say, my uncle had one just like it the headgaskets went twice, and my dad said it would smell like antifrze when that happens....

The salesman is going to then say "we can have it checked, and we warranty it for blah bla blah... "

He then gives you their "best price" you write it down, and say wow that really close to the asking price,,,.... You have my number, we are going to think about it" and leave...

Now, he is going to try to make you stay, bottle of water, cup of coffee, bag of peanuts, whatever.... hes gonna ask, whats it gonna take?, this is when you say, "thats your best deal rite?, they cant do any better" and he will be like "well maybe, where do we have to be to do this today" But under no circumstances buy that car that day....

Leave no matter what... he may even say this is the best today tomorrow the price changes... screw that leave... look around do this to a few dealerships, and wait for the phone calls....

Now when they invite you back, you will get a good deal on the car, and it will still be there, if not {which is rare}, no big deal start over, remember you are not in a hurry, its a third car... no big deal....


Hope this makes sense, and good luck... I have bought a lot of cars in my life time, and have it down to a science, new vs used is a little different, and I buy a lot more new, but if you start thinking like a car dealer you will do fine, but its hard to get down that low for most people...

But looking at that car you are thinking of, I wouldnt pay 11K


One more thing, go buy a new car for that kind of money, I made the deal on a chevy sonic for my brother $13,400 financed at $2.% with nothing down... Thats 36month warranty, that vw wont last 3 years, them a junk...

Diesels arent better, fuel is more per gallon, repairs cost more, maint cost more, they stink, and are slow... I own a few, take my word on it...

 

[Lulimet]

I wouldn't pay that fee, it's bogus, and FWIW I think $16K is too much to pay for that year and model with 98K miles.

+1

Never agree on bogus fees like that one and also agree that $16k for a 98k miles car is way too much. Diesel or not.

 

[avnetguy]

I would agree the Destination fee is just another way to tack on an extra charge. In other words, don't pay it unless you really want the car and he won't remove the fee.

As for the TDI, awesome cars, driven a VW diesel for the past 24+ years (two cars). My brother owns pretty much the exact car you're buying, great mileage and zero problems so far since 2009.

Steve

 

[96cobra10101]

Way to many miles. Water pump, alternator, trans, and I believe VW uses a timing belt, not a timing chain! WEAK!! I'd skip that car. Go get a Honda, Hyundai or something along those lines. My kid just bought a 1 yo Ford Focus with hardly any miles and warranty for 12K. She went in the dealer once and then they kept calling her. The price dropped almost 4k by the time she went back. Deals to be had, just be patient.

 

[Alex2507]

My kid just bought a 1 yo Ford Focus ...

It's okay to call it a FoFo: the other kids won't make fun.

The fact that he's looking for a VW diesel just screams emotional instability. This is no place for rational discussion. It's like trying to talk someone out of silver plated speaker wire.

A friend of mine is into VWs. There's really no talking him out of it. Pay what you must and drive what you want.

BTW, my fofo is has 185k on it and I drive it like a raped ape. I have no dignity.

 

[96cobra10101]

It's okay to call it a FoFo: the other kids won't make fun.

The fact that he's looking for a VW diesel just screams emotional instability. This is no place for rational discussion. It's like trying to talk someone out of silver plated speaker wire.

A friend of mine is into VWs. There's really no talking him out of it. Pay what you must and drive what you want.

BTW, my fofo is has 185k on it and I drive it like a raped ape. I have no dignity.

FoFo, I'll let her NoNo.

 

[TLS Guy]

They said it was trade in. I doubt it was a remote trade in. Most of the googleing that I have done says the fee is bogus.

I could see such a fee if I went to CarMax and instructed them to get me something from a faraway lot... But I doubt new car dealerships get trucks to bring in used inventory.

They do in Minnesota. Cars really rust up here because of the tons of salt MNDOT dump on the roads.

Up here we will pay a premium on a used car brought up from down south. It is commonly done.

As they say in the trade, "Cars come to Minnesota to die!"

 

[jinjuku]

They do in Minnesota. Cars really rust up here because of the tons of salt MNDOT dump on the roads.

Up here we will pay a premium on a used car brought up from down south. It is commonly done.

As they say in the trade, "Cars come to Minnesota to die!"

They made it sound like it was a trade in for an Audi...

 

[TLS Guy]

Dont pay that for the car, Do they have your phone number? If they do dont go back, they will be calling you, buying a car cant be rushed, I always tell people put a month aside to buy a car, go look and give out your number to the dealers that have cars you are interested in..

Heres a few tips... I am really good at buying cars, I hav ebought 11 new cars since 2007 {for my business and personal use}, Im in the middle of a 4 month long deal on a $100K coronet rite now... I just paid almost $15K less than sticker on a 2013 wrangler, that they hardly ever move on the price on...


Anyway let this dealership call you, then say, I was ready to buy the car but that $300 fee really pissed my wife off, now you guys would probably have to knock off $600 just to get her back in there, and make like you guys decided to wait until after the holidays....

Always make like its a third car, you are buying just incase you need it or when your inlaws come to visit, they have something to drive, its never a "needed" car...

Never say what you are willing to pay, when they say "whats your budget" say, "its not my budget its the deal I want, Ill spend $50K if Im getting a $80K car, I want the most for my money"...

Never like the car, always make like you are settling because they dont have what you want...
Always make like you smell something, after the test drive, say "do you smell antifreeze"?

The salesman is nothing in a dealership, this is just a drone for the salesmanager, they have no deal making power... So after you find a car you are settling for, ask the salesman what the best he can do is, he is going to check with his salesmanager, this is when you make a phone call to your "father", the salesman comes back you are on the phone, saying "yah dad its a vw jetta, like the one uncle Joe had, Oh really, yah, this one actually smealt like antifreeze, oh wow, ok talk to you later " now hang up the phone and say, my uncle had one just like it the headgaskets went twice, and my dad said it would smell like antifrze when that happens....

The salesman is going to then say "we can have it checked, and we warranty it for blah bla blah... "

He then gives you their "best price" you write it down, and say wow that really close to the asking price,,,.... You have my number, we are going to think about it" and leave...

Now, he is going to try to make you stay, bottle of water, cup of coffee, bag of peanuts, whatever.... hes gonna ask, whats it gonna take?, this is when you say, "thats your best deal rite?, they cant do any better" and he will be like "well maybe, where do we have to be to do this today" But under no circumstances buy that car that day....

Leave no matter what... he may even say this is the best today tomorrow the price changes... screw that leave... look around do this to a few dealerships, and wait for the phone calls....

Now when they invite you back, you will get a good deal on the car, and it will still be there, if not {which is rare}, no big deal start over, remember you are not in a hurry, its a third car... no big deal....


Hope this makes sense, and good luck... I have bought a lot of cars in my life time, and have it down to a science, new vs used is a little different, and I buy a lot more new, but if you start thinking like a car dealer you will do fine, but its hard to get down that low for most people...

But looking at that car you are thinking of, I wouldnt pay 11K


One more thing, go buy a new car for that kind of money, I made the deal on a chevy sonic for my brother $13,400 financed at $2.% with nothing down... Thats 36month warranty, that vw wont last 3 years, them a junk...

Diesels arent better, fuel is more per gallon, repairs cost more, maint cost more, they stink, and are slow... I own a few, take my word on it...

You are wrong and right.

I agree always let the seller think he has an absolute POS on his hands and you are doing him a huge favor by unloading it for him.

I always take an engine scanner when buying a second hand car, there is usually a code someplace to frighten the salesman with!

Now to Diesels, you are way out of date on that, like most Americans.

Europe auto technology parted ways with the rest of the world many years ago driven by ruinous fuel taxes and taxes on engine size.

The fact is that small European diesels are highly fuel efficient and capacity for capacity more powerful and with more torque and take off than equivalent size gas engines.

Many European formula I cars have been powered by diesel engines for some time. Mileages in the 90 to 100 mpg range are common place in Europe.

My brother's new Audi gets over 80 mpg and has to, to avoid a huge large engine tax.

A year or two back I rented a Peugot estate wagon. I had it around 10 days, did around 750 miles, never filled it up until I returned it, and it had averaged 63 mpg in UK traffic in the busy South east.

All my siblings have all diesel vehicles, except for one sister and brother in law who have one gas car. That is typical of the UK situation.

The VW diesel is an excellent engine, and much more reliable than the gas, which is known for terrible cam shaft issues, at 100K miles.

Talking of cam shafts, there are increasing numbers of European engines that have no camshaft now, solenoid operated valves, with continuously variable valve timing. That really boosts mpg, I can tell you that.

In Europe though, the small turbo gas engines are catching up fast. This is again driven by tax code. There is legitimate concern about particulate matter in diesel exhaust, with now many studies showing an alarming correlation with not only respiratory disease, but coronary artery disease and stroke.

So there are areas in greater London now that tax diesel car owners heavily for their parking permits. So this is driving innovation in turbo gasoline engine technology. There are now appearing gasoline engines of less than 1000 cc capacity with good power and take off and much improved mpg.

Many European manufacturers build gasoline engines just for the American market. These engines are almost universally poor, to such an extent I strongly advise against the purchase of European cars with gas engines in the US. I know, I owned one, a Merc E class with a perfectly dreadful V6 gas engine.

The reliability I think relates to the lack of familiarity and training at the dealerships. They really don't understand diesels, and especially not the modern electronic control and injection system on diesel engines. Heck, they did not understand them in the 80s, when I bought my 6.2 lt Suburban diesel. I realized right away I had to get it out of their clutches and that I was going to have to look after it, which I have. It is now 25 years on, with over 200,000 miles and still drives like the day it left the factory, in fact better, as it left the factory out of time. It was that issue that told me the dealers mechanics had no clue about diesel injection.

And by the way, the mechanics are still floundering with modern electronics.

My butt warmer did not work this season in my Chevy Equionox. I had to explain to the service manager how the circuit had to work, CMOS, logic control in the head unit, and gated MOSFET switch in the module in the seat.

I took it up Thursday and the tech vowed it was the seat heating element and would have one Friday. I was not convinced, and when I brought it back, insisted on going over fault analysis with the tech. It turns out one of the 5 volt control voltages was not getting from the head unit to the module in the seat. The cause I found was a bad connector. A good application of tuner cleaner solved the problem and avoided tearing my car apart.

I had to take the car to the dealer so as not to void the warranty.

Anyone who does not believe we have a education/skills crisis in this country is smoking something they shouldn't.

 

[ImcLoud]

I apologize for the long post in advance, but read it you may learn something, and if you dont, I apologize twice...

The problem here is we are in the us, and we dont have 100mpg diesel cars available to us, and if you google that vw diesel motor you will see a lot of unhappy customers with sub 100K on them...
You are very lucky with your 6.2 if I remember correctly them were terrible engines, {i had a 6.5 that was also a junk box, replaced at 90K.} the 6.2 was naturally aspirated and got worse mpg than a large gas job {And is a smelly loud diesel}... I am very mechanically inclined, I built my own oil trucks from school bus chassis's for years until business built up enough to warrant a new truck {at $139K its not something you jump into, but before I sold that portion of the company I owned 6}. I have rebuilt more DT466 engines than I care to admit, from old rotary pump models to new digital gap models..
But anyway, the problem is diesel is 50 cents more per gallon at the pump, the parts cost more, the labor costs more, and parts are tough to get {not many sold, so not many in salvage yards, and the ones that are there all have the same problems}... Plus not every gas station sells diesel, sucks to find out when you are on E...

So, this is where people run into trouble figuring how to save money...

I own a couple HVAC businesses and I will try to explain this as well as I can with something I see all the time...

A customer calls me up and wants a high efficiency boiler... Great... I go to the house and sell them a Hi eff. boiler, but always tell them, "you are much better off with a quality standard boiler vs the high eff units in the long run", but you know what they buy, the high eff. units, 99.9% of the time.. To save money? Cant be because they cost more..... Heres why...

a nice Budurus natural draft boiler {cast Iron 120K btu wet base} costs $2900 installed and gets 86% efficiency with very small stand by losses and will last 12 years with 0 service costs, at 20 years avg, service costs are under $600, and the boilers life span with a filtered water supply is 35 years.

Now a Budurus high efficiency gb series, installed costs around $7900 and gets 95% eff., also has low stndby losses, but Will cost $1600 in service before it is 8 years old!!! And the average life span is 13 years!!!! {before service costs will warrant replacement!!!}. Lastly the parts are not stocked, they are almost all order only availability, so when you call because you have no heat on xmass eve, guess what, Ill be back the day after new years to fix it, if you are lucky and the part is in stock at the warehouse in Germany} Buderus is also German, pure coincidence..

So lets do a little of the math, in 26 years {sounds long but keep in mind most peoples mortgages are 30}, the high eff unit will cost you around $20,000 and need to be replaced again because that is 2 lifetimes!! If you have a 3000 sq ft, std insulation home you will save around $210 per year {which is 9% off of what you would spend with a std boiler}, so over 26 years you will save around $5400- still with me? $20,000-$5400=$15600, thats what the system costs you after you minus your energy savings...

Now for the standard system- at 26 years, you would have spent $3500 on the boiler and service {but lets call is $5000 for good measure}... Add that to the $5400 in extra fuel costs, you get $10400 and the boiler still has a half decade of life left in it !!!!! So that means the high eff. unit cost you an extra $5000 and needs to be replaced after 26 years!!!!!

So IMHO that is what is wrong here, people dont look at the entire picture... My friggen powerstroke diesel service trucks cost me so much in repairs its stupid, vs my chevy powered gas vans cost 1/10th that in their entire lifetime... And any mechanic can work on them, doesnt have to be a certified specialty mechanic... Plus the diesels initially cost $10K more!!!!

If you are worried about gas mileage, get a prius, I bought my wife a brand new one in 07 and besides a pair of headlights {that I blew out trying to jump start it} it is perfect still, not one service problem}, and she gets good gas milage... But for the money a brand new car like the chevy I mentioned earlier is your best bet, find a dealer, work him over to a couple thousand under cost, and walk away happy knowing in 5 years, you saved a lotmore than a diesel would have saved you...
My grand father used to say "penny smart dollar foolish" and I see it a lot, People spend $5K extra to save $2K in the long run, not smart...
I am very serious about my money, maybe that is why I am comfortable and will retire before I am 40... , I never had to do anything illegal or immoral, and started with a $12 an hour laborers job, no parents to hand me a business or pay for my education, 100% ME, just hard work, smart decisions, and a table spoon of common sense...

So anyway take my "free" advice or dont, and good luck with the new car, I am always in a good mood when Im buying a new car, to me its more fun than a vacation, because I usually have more to show for it than a few pictures and a sun burn in the shape of a pool side menu {long story, dont fall asleep on a sunny windy day in Peru, a hologram menu may fly by and stick to your back} thats more free advice for you, Im not even going to get into how I gut the sun burn on St Thomas, when I thought we were on St Johns the entire trip {in my defence they are close and share an airport}...

One more word on the tdi, most posts I see on the net about them call is a crap shoot, you may see them with a half million miles but most likely not many.... Just one of them things, do you gamble $15K often?

AMy brother just bought a brand new CHevy Sonic for less than they want for that jetta, 138hp 40mpg hwy!!! He said he is averaging 38mpg, and with 0 miles in 5 years it will have 60K and still be worth $7K or so, where will that jetta be in 5 years?

 

[Matt34]

I have a buddy in Phoneix that has a TDI jetta with 300k on it and still gets high 40's-low 50 mpg. He's done a couple basic engine mods and replaced all the suspension bushings.....that little thing can move. No major repairs to date.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Many European manufacturers build gasoline engines just for the American market. These engines are almost universally poor, to such an extent I strongly advise against the purchase of European cars with gas engines in the US. I know, I owned one, a Merc E class with a perfectly dreadful V6 gas engine.

This is incorrect. The market share of diesel engines for passenger vehicles is 20% in the UK, and 40% in Germany, as of 2010. The Mercedes 3.5L V6 is a worldwide engine, as is the BMW 2.5/3.0L L6, just to name two.

For the facts about the Euro market based on vehicle registrations, see Figure 4-1. Euro auto market analysis

 

[ImcLoud]

This is incorrect. The market share of diesel engines for passenger vehicles is 20% in the UK, and 40% in Germany, as of 2010. The Mercedes 3.5L V6 is a worldwide engine, as is the BMW 2.5/3.0L L6, just to name two.

For the facts about the Euro market based on vehicle registrations, see Figure 4-1. Euro auto market analysis

My uncle has an Eclass merc with the diesel, this thing is a nightmare!!! he drives their loaner more than his car, lol, and the loaner is a toyota camry I tease him all the time, saying how he paid for a benz and drives a camry with cloth seats...

 

[Irvrobinson]

My uncle has an Eclass merc with the diesel, this thing is a nightmare!!! he drives their loaner more than his car, lol, and the loaner is a toyota camry I tease him all the time, saying how he paid for a benz and drives a camry with cloth seats...

Using individual data points of out context to derive large population conclusions is not conducive to good decision-making. I've run into good and bad stories about nearly every automotive brand.