Nonunion crews turned away from Sandy recovery

[BMXTRIX]

1. There's no indication it's "typical". Please resist such inflammatory a comment without support.

2. There's indication that the article isn't even particularly true in this case.

3. Unions are like companies. There are good ones and bad ones.

4. Many people who are anti-union (as opposed to opposing specific unions or specific union actions), I think, fail to appreciate the atrocities from which unions arose. It feels like opposing police over-reach by wanting to get rid of all law enforcement.

Unfortunately, some unions have grown into the exact monsters that they originally were formed to protect from. I have heard more than a few stories of how labor unions actively bully non-union Americans just trying to earn a paycheck.

Fine if some unions are just there to protect THEIR employees, but as soon as they step outside of that bubble, or impact other workers because of their choice, that union is completely worthless IMO.

 

[slipperybidness]

4. Many people who are anti-union (as opposed to opposing specific unions or specific union actions), I think, fail to appreciate the atrocities from which unions arose. It feels like opposing police over-reach by wanting to get rid of all law enforcement.

Sounds like a plan!

 

[JerryLove]

Pedanticism aside.
Seems to me, you'd have to know my life's experiences to know what I know, as to what's "typical."

Perhaps; but I need only read your post to know if your post supported the claim of "typical" in any way, shape, or form other than to assert it.

Your post did not.

If you have some rigorous data you'd like to present now in support (you know: the kind of quantifiable proof on which Audioholics was founded) I would welcome this information.

Really?
Can you direct us to links or examples to where unions have taken a liking to "Scabs?"

We would need to further define the definitions for me to answer the question; but whether I can or not I have no interest in doing so as I have no assertion on the subject to support.

Further: examples would be anecdotal; establishing that it had ever happened but giving no useful data regarding frequency

For example, I could discuss myself as a non-union volunteer at my mother's school when I was a teen: thus proving that in at least one instance non-union assistance was welcomed by a union member at a union location; but it wouldn't interact with your claim of "typical".

 

[JerryLove]

Unfortunately, some unions have grown into the exact monsters that they originally were formed to protect from. I have heard more than a few stories of how labor unions actively bully non-union Americans just trying to earn a paycheck.

Exact? Perhaps not, but that's a semantic distinction. I agree completely with your point as I understand it: that some unions are "very bad things".

Fine if some unions are just there to protect THEIR employees, but as soon as they step outside of that bubble, or impact other workers because of their choice, that union is completely worthless IMO.

Again: it's definitely a Bad Thing. I agree with you.

 

[Adam]

We would need to further define the definitions for me to answer the question; but whether I can or not I have no interest in doing so as I have no assertion on the subject to support.

I believe that you asserted this wasn't "typical," and that saying it was typical was inflammatory. Who should prove what? Eh, I don't care. I do think that you made an assertion, though.

Now, let's all be friends. After all...if you guys continue to argue, then the unions have already won.

 

[JerryLove]

I believe that you asserted this wasn't "typical," and that saying it was typical was inflammatory.

My quote "There's no indication it's 'typical'".

I don't know if it is typical or not. I don't believe any such statistic exists.

You are right that I positively asserted that the syntax was inflammatory. We could tangent into my support for that, I suppose; but it's a terribly subjective word to debate... like saying "sounded bad".

 

[slipperybidness]

From the people on this discussion that have worked directly with unionized labor and in unionized plants, we haven't had a favorable impression of unions.

 

[Rickster71]

Disclaimer:
My "inflammatory" union rant, was no reflection on my favorite union member and AH member, Oscar.

 

[jostenmeat]

From the people on this discussion that have worked directly with unionized labor and in unionized plants, we haven't had a favorable impression of unions.

There was a long thread about unions here from four years ago. Not very favorable at that time either. In it I only made one token post, recounting a story told to me by an extremely successful owner of many restaurants, who may have had more different jobs than anyone I know, one of which was at a union factory.

He was written up two times there. The first time was because he was going at it with his drill, and that tiny little bulb on it went out. He simply wanted to keep chugging along, and so changed it out in a minute. He was written up for not having called the on-site electrician instead, for the absurd charge of I forget how much.

The other time was for simply being too efficient at his job. He was written up for making his co-workers look bad.

 

[JerryLove]

I changed a bulb once in my mother's classroom. No one was written up by the unionized teachers nor unionized custodial workers.

It's almost like there's well behaved and poorly behaved people both inside and outside of unions.

Now let me tell you about when I had a pet scan to determine if a mass was cancerous, and found out it was not, and then was denied coverage because my nothing-wrong was a pre-existing condition (If it's important: the health insurance company involved was not unionized).

 

[Irvrobinson]

The other time was for simply being too efficient at his job. He was written up for making his co-workers look bad.

I very much doubt the particulars of this one. I was pulled aside once, and told by my union steward it would be advantageous if I "paced myself" more (I stocked shelves in a supermarket), but it was a quiet, private, hush-hush conversation, and I can't believe anyone would ever be "written up" for being too good or too efficient.

 

[jostenmeat]

I very much doubt the particulars of this one. I was pulled aside once, and told by my union steward it would be advantageous if I "paced myself" more (I stocked shelves in a supermarket), but it was a quiet, private, hush-hush conversation, and I can't believe anyone would ever be "written up" for being too good or too efficient.

He is not one that is susceptible to hyperbole. FWIW, this was many decades ago in WI. But take it as you will.

 

[lsiberian]

I just hope we get stuff fixed. I realize unions feel the need to protect what they fought decades for, but some folks take things further than they should. But this happens in all businesses. I can tell you plenty of corporate disasters.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Disclaimer:
My "inflammatory" union rant, was no reflection on my favorite union member and AH member, Oscar.

He's probably breaking someones knee caps right now for even thinking about hanging drywall with out a union card...

 

[Adam]

He's probably breaking someones knee caps right now for even thinking about hanging drywall with out a union card...

Knee pads are a wonderful thing.

Signed,
The Twister Crew

 

[lsiberian]

Knee pads are a wonderful thing.

Signed,
The Twister Crew

that better be Union twister.

Signed,
The AFL-CIO Crew

 

[Rickster71]

He's probably breaking someones knee caps right now for even thinking about hanging drywall with out a union card...

I'm glad he's so busy working on his entertainment center, he'll never see this thread.
He swore to stay off the computer and away from bacon until it was finished.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

I'm glad he's so busy working on his entertainment center, he'll never see this thread.
He swore to stay off the computer and away from bacon until it was finished.

He's probably curled up in the fetal position sucking on smoked pork belly because the EC kicked his butt...well either the EC or Cheryl.

 

[majorloser]

4. Many people who are anti-union (as opposed to opposing specific unions or specific union actions), I think, fail to appreciate the atrocities from which unions arose. It feels like opposing police over-reach by wanting to get rid of all law enforcement.

And you have obviouly never sat at a union negotiations table from either side of the coin. Anytime you have to negotiate something greed will prevail. Each side will always try to get more even though everything may have been working out pretty good all along.

It never fails that there will be some idiot appointed to the negotiating committee that thinks they've been slighted in the past by the other party and wants to get even.

 

[Alex2507]

Disclaimer:
My "inflammatory" union rant, was no reflection on my favorite union member and AH member, Oscar.

He's probably breaking someones knee caps right now for even thinking about hanging drywall with out a union card...

The Major has it right ... there's cornholes on both sides and you two quit distracting me ... but thanks for cracking me up as I get going here. BTW, I'm down with making a living even if it's illegal aliens doing union work without cards and filling the port a pots with undigested corn. So chew on that.