Why Is It That People Can't Do Basic Math?

[fuzz092888]

I think part of the problem is the application of math. At least the math classes I was in, it was just do these problems and then we'll move to harder ones. What could that math possibly be used for? I have no idea. I know someone out there uses the math in their day-to-day life, but I'm not one of them. People have no incentive to put in effort beyond passing if they don't see the reason for it. I'll tell you that I have done MUCH better in classes that I feel are worthwhile to my future. Maybe if kids were given a more hands on approach to math other than putting a bunch of equations on a board, we would see more people taking an interest in STEM careers. If I had known the uses of some of the math I learned before I began perceiving it negatively, perhaps I would've put in more effort and joined my roommates as engineering majors.

And don't think I'm ragging on teachers. I have the highest respect for them and what they do, I just wish there were more good teachers out there.

That's exactly my point though. You are correct in many ways. You know why you never learn why you're supposed to learn this stuff or how it's supposed to benefit you? Because the entire country, educationally speaking, is obsessed with testing and results. The only problem is that education is basically psychology, which means there really is not way to judge "results" in the form of single test on a single day that's supposed to "grade" both the students and the teachers. It's much much much more holistic than that.

For example, if I teach some kid the way they should be taught and I get him doing math at a 7th grade level, when he was starting at a 3rd grade level and he's in 10th grade, he's going to fail his 10th grade regents and in the eyes of the state and the federal government we're both failures.

So there is no point, given current standards, to teach kids the "right" way, when all that matters is how they do on that test. Hence, "drill and skill" styles of teaching which do two things. Prepare those with drive to pass the test while learning nothing and force those who don't have the drive or don't see the point to drop out.

It is a shame that our system doesn't really accommodate these people.

OTOH, my daughter is capable, but she is socially savvy (to put a positive spin on it) and is convinced it is so uncool to be good at math as a high school girl that she puts no effort into understanding. She sees each HW assignment as a task to complete as efficiently as possible without any desire to learn anything; despite a well thought out program from the teacher. Of course, if she had been learning along the way, she would be more efficient at the HW!

Thank you social media, television shows, and about 25 years of brainwashing that have convinced so many kids that it is "uncool" to succeed. Then when the kids don't do well in school for lack of effort at least half of the parents will blame the teachers saying it is their fault for not motivating the students properly.

With all this "great" stuff going on, not to mention the mediocre pay and long hours, why wouldn't our best and brightest want to go into education?

I wasn't saying he was wrong. Just adding my POV

Maybe I wouldn't have seen the point, but it would've been nice if they tried. Knowing the math doesn't hurt, but learning it sure does

I know, and I try to explain the "point" to students every chance I get. The problem is that by the time they get to high school, the only ones willing to listen to my speech are the ones who don't need it anyways.

 

[dkane360]

I know, and I try to explain the "point" to students every chance I get. The problem is that by the time they get to high school, the only ones willing to listen to my speech are the ones who don't need it anyways.

Very true, although I think it's possible to change peoples attitudes towards learning at any age. It could just be one teacher that really makes a positive impact in a student's life. It wasn't until college that I really cared about what I learned. Having the choice to pick something that interested me and surrounding myself with positive people drove me to put in the hours I needed to do well. It's also quite evident when your classmates are still in a "high school" mode of learning, and it saddens me to see that they aren't getting everything out of college.

 

[fuzz092888]

Very true, although I think it's possible to change peoples attitudes towards learning at any age. It could just be one teacher that really makes a positive impact in a student's life. It wasn't until college that I really cared about what I learned. Having the choice to pick something that interested me and surrounding myself with positive people drove me to put in the hours I needed to do well. It's also quite evident when your classmates are still in a "high school" mode of learning, and it saddens me to see that they aren't getting everything out of college.

I agree, but I find more often than not, at the high school level anyways, seeing 120+ kids every day necessitates the student to either make the first step, or be somewhat pro-active to at least let the teacher know "hey I'm reaching this kid who wasn't interested before."

I know for a fact that there are kids who don't understand or try really hard, and no matter what the reason may be they just need a little nudge to get them over the hump and show them they can do it. The problem is, if the teacher is the one being proactive and making all the "advances" then they risk having the kid shut down altogether.

You can't talk to a kid in front of the class, during class, in front of his or her friends, in front of parents, to the kids parents, etc etc etc. There are so many subtle nuances that exist in the adolescent culture that I just haven't participated in for so long it can be tough trying to find the "right" time to approach a student like that, and I'm not even that old.

Again, a valid point. If a kid wants to do better in school, but all the friends and people around them aren't of the same mindset the teacher is fighting an uphill battle. Against peers, you're going to lose well over 50% of the time, as sorry as that is to admit.

 

[Steve81]

It's also quite evident when your classmates are still in a "high school" mode of learning, and it saddens me to see that they aren't getting everything out of college.

Some people have to find out the hard way; the school of hard knocks is far less forgiving than any university. I was one of those types who was more focused on my social life in my prime college years than actual learning. A couple years in a job I wasn't terribly fond of gave me some perspective. I was fortunate to be able to get a second shot, which I didn't piss away so readily.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I agree and disagree. As a math teacher the problem isn't necessarily that if you don't use it you lose it. I mean, yes, the geometry, trig, a lot of the algebra stuff, etc you definitely should lose as time goes on because you probably won't use it. However stuff like PEMDAS and the simple nature of the original problem, people should never use. One thing we try to hammer home is that you should never ever ever find yourself never doing math. Whether it's balancing your checkbook, keeping track of how much your spending grocery/pleasure shopping, or anything else. Nearly everything you do is some sort of math problem that you use to keep your basic math skills sharp.

The other half of that is trying to get students to understand that high school has nothing to do with the actual content. The content is there to make the real reason they're there interesting. Obviously the interesting part is entirely dependent on the teacher, which is sad. Both because there are so many poor teachers out there, but also because there are so many great ones that get a bad rap because generally when the word "teachers" is used, its coming in a negative context. Back to the point. Elementary and high school are a complete head fake. It's all about building neural connections and forcing developing minds to think in certain ways to prepare them for any situation they may potentially run into. Math is supposed to get kids thinking in organized, logical ways and to use reason to solve problems. Science does much of the same things, but also throws in a sense of wonder and curiosity, hence all the experiments. Social studies and English should be the most relevant subjects of all to students and they're usually two of the "dumbest."

I won't bore you with ranting from my soapbox. I will say this about math being abysmal. Whether or not school in general depends on teachers, community, and location in the country/in your state/in your county. All these factors weigh in much more heavily than the actual subject. A quick for instance. My district, in upstate NY located in Ulster county. This place hates education and teachers. It's reflected in the fact that no budget ever passes, it's reflected in who they elect to the school board, and who the school board hires for a superintendent. If you go 10 mins south to Kingston, much different. If you go one county over, it can be much different. Red Hook, only 30 mins away, is a completely different educational environment.

In NY, it also has to do with the tests. We test the kids to death, they can't do any of the math without the calculators because it's more important for them to know calculator tricks than the actual math so that they can do well on the test and can graduate and go to a good college. Now it will get even worse. The performance of the student's on the state exams directly affects a teacher's performance review. The whole system is a mess nationwide. Race to the top? What a joke. Just a rebadged NCLB.

It's also a reflection of the students. On average, the student body coming into schools these days is lazier, more apathetic, more street smart (or so they think), and even dumber because they think they're smarter. Constantly telling kids that they know so much more than I knew when I was your age has turned them into know it all's when they don't know a darn thing.

Ah, a math teacher. I can see where my math education being abysmal remark must have struck a chord. Rethinking the statement, I'm still drawn to my original conclusion.

Not that I disagree about student motivation, parenting issues, and the foolishness of some school systems. These are excellent points. There are also cultural issues that I think factor in too. For example, when I was growing up in the 1960s and 1970s science and engineering, and therefore math, were cool. The Soviet Union had kicked our butt in space, so we went to the moon, the Cuban Missile Crisis made us fear being weak, so we built complex weapons, computers were new and sexy, and Star Trek and 2001: A Space Odyssey (among other things) made science cool. None of these things are true today. Perhaps with the exception of biotech, science and technology have lost their luster in the US, and math along with them.

For some reason though the law schools are overflowing. Newly minted attorneys can't find jobs, but so many want to be lawyers. Discounting the impact of the overly exciting portrayal of lawyers by Hollywood, one has to wonder why people put up with three years of arcane classes, Bar exams, and the rigors of associate-level slavery only to read contracts or write wills and divorce decrees. Yeah, the top 5% of attorneys make a lot of money, and maybe the top 1% does some exciting stuff, but mostly it looks just plain boring.

I think it's because what's taught in law school classes, no matter how poorly, is easier to relate to and grasp than algebra, trigonometry, and calculus. I think if you look at a law book and then look at a math textbook the reason why we have too many attorneys and not enough scientists and engineers is immediately apparent. A law book is written in plain english (well, mostly), a calculus book isn't. Law school looks like just hard work, to a lot of people math looks incomprehensible.

Frankly, I think it boils down to intent. Law schools are on a mission to produce attorneys. It just doesn't seem like high schools and colleges take it as a mission to produce mathematicians. The task should be made as do-able and understandable as possible, not some sort of obstacle course.

So it wasn't math teachers I was really targeting with my comment, it was the whole math culture we have in the US. We don't make it easy enough, and I think we could make it easier.

 

[j_garcia]

I think it's because what's taught in law school classes, no matter how poorly, is easier to relate to and grasp than algebra, trigonometry, and calculus. I think if you look at a law book and then look at a math textbook the reason why we have too many attorneys and not enough scientists and engineers is immediately apparent. A law book is written in plain english (well, mostly), a calculus book isn't. Law school looks like just hard work, to a lot of people math looks incomprehensible.

Math LOOKS difficult, and yes it can be, but in reality it is not much different than language or anything else (written?) that one learns. Once you understand it, it doesn't look like gibberish. Math is logic, so really it just takes the work to understand it - no different than anything else. So basically, math is entirely rules based and should make sense once you understand the rules right? Yeah right It isn't that simple. Regardless of the teacher, some just have a knack for it that comes naturally for one reason or another. Others have to really be taught and struggle just to get it, so it depends on the person.

The teacher is definitely a factor too, and I've said this before in regards to teaching as I've taught CAD for years - I can give every example I can think of to explain how to do something or why they might need a particular command, but if the person can't relate my examples to how they work, they still may not get it. There are different ways to teach anything, and different people learn in different ways, both are based on the individual's experiences. So you will get instances where a student and a teacher "connect" and the student will understand more easily, and others where they are in different planes of existence and the student will not learn as easily.

I've been in the engineering community for most of my life so legal-ease looks like gibberish to me

 

[fuzz092888]

Ah, a math teacher. I can see where my math education being abysmal remark must have struck a chord. Rethinking the statement, I'm still drawn to my original conclusion.

Not that I disagree about student motivation, parenting issues, and the foolishness of some school systems. These are excellent points. There are also cultural issues that I think factor in too. For example, when I was growing up in the 1960s and 1970s science and engineering, and therefore math, were cool. The Soviet Union had kicked our butt in space, so we went to the moon, the Cuban Missile Crisis made us fear being weak, so we built complex weapons, computers were new and sexy, and Star Trek and 2001: A Space Odyssey (among other things) made science cool. None of these things are true today. Perhaps with the exception of biotech, science and technology have lost their luster in the US, and math along with them.

I completely agree that there are cultural issues that greatly affect how students react to math, however I disagree that science and technology have lost their luster. There's quite a bit of evidence to the contrary. Robotics competitions are starting to gain quite a bit of traction, and in inner cities of all places. Kids and Americans still have as much passion as they ever have for science and technology, we've just lost that thing that we can all rally behind. All it takes is a catalyst, something small and simple, and the entire culture can suddenly change. I showed some students the other day this 3D printer that you can buy online for a couple hundred bucks. I showed them how it worked, how it involved programming and a lot of math and geometry to create these 3D printouts. Then I asked, if the school had these, how them would find math more relevant. Almost every kid in the class raised their hands. The desire is still there for science and technology, and automatically creates a relevance for math and reason for learning it. There's just no budget, not enough good teachers, and no good reason for intelligent, creative people to enter into the profession. You know, the people who would be driving programs like the robotics competition and CAD design classes forward.

For some reason though the law schools are overflowing. Newly minted attorneys can't find jobs, but so many want to be lawyers. Discounting the impact of the overly exciting portrayal of lawyers by Hollywood, one has to wonder why people put up with three years of arcane classes, Bar exams, and the rigors of associate-level slavery only to read contracts or write wills and divorce decrees. Yeah, the top 5% of attorneys make a lot of money, and maybe the top 1% does some exciting stuff, but mostly it looks just plain boring.

I think it's because what's taught in law school classes, no matter how poorly, is easier to relate to and grasp than algebra, trigonometry, and calculus. I think if you look at a law book and then look at a math textbook the reason why we have too many attorneys and not enough scientists and engineers is immediately apparent. A law book is written in plain english (well, mostly), a calculus book isn't. Law school looks like just hard work, to a lot of people math looks incomprehensible.

I don't have an answer to why they're over flowing, because it looks like a horribly boring profession to me as well. A big reason why I didn't choose that as a future profession. However I couldn't disagree more that the law is more relatable than science and math. Science and math are the only two things that are truly universal that I know of. They exist all around us and nothing we see, do, or interact with can't be traced back to science and math. What we have, is an abundance of people, media, and popular television shows constantly and overwhelmingly demonstrating how lawyers are relevant, while the same can't be said about scientists and mathematicians. The only way Hollywood can seem to incorporate them into any type of TV show is some outlandish representation of what the jobs "are."

However, have students sit down with an articulate lawyer for an assembly and see how many of them get bored. Have them sit down with an articulate scientist and suddenly things get more interesting.

Frankly, I think it boils down to intent. Law schools are on a mission to produce attorneys. It just doesn't seem like high schools and colleges take it as a mission to produce mathematicians. The task should be made as do-able and understandable as possible, not some sort of obstacle course.

I don't see that at all. Schools, even the small private college I went to, are driven to produce scientists and mathematicians, they simply lack the people. Everything is an obstacle course. A survival test to see who can wade through the most BS and come out on the other side.

So it wasn't math teachers I was really targeting with my comment, it was the whole math culture we have in the US. We don't make it easy enough, and I think we could make it easier.

I never thought you were targeting math teacher and I agree, the culture isn't helping matters at all. However I think it's no harder to become anything that involves math or a scientist. Those subjects just aren't getting the respect they deserve due to government interference with all these bleeping tests and the lack of good people going into the teaching profession due to all the hoops and the, generally, disenchanting working conditions.

I mean, why be a teacher when for the same amount of college work you can be an engineer or 30 other professions that make more money, deal with much less public scrutiny, and don't require as much work as a good teacher puts in.

Math LOOKS difficult, and yes it can be, but in reality it is not much different than language or anything else (written?) that one learns. Once you understand it, it doesn't look like gibberish. Math is logic, so really it just takes the work to understand it - no different than anything else. So basically, math is entirely rules based and should make sense once you understand the rules right? Yeah right It isn't that simple. Regardless of the teacher, some just have a knack for it that comes naturally for one reason or another. Others have to really be taught and struggle just to get it, so it depends on the person.

Math does look much different than the other subjects, but that's all on the teacher. It's why teaching isn't as simple as many people believe it to be. A great teacher is someone who can take math and have it make perfect sense to a self proclaimed "artsy" person. One of the biggest problems I face is that given enough one on one time I can have just about anyone learn math and end up liking it to some degree. What high school teachers have working against them is, a state test, annual assessments based on these state tests, 120+ students that have to take that test, a mere 40 mins per day (assuming no absences), less than 180 days to do so, re-teaching last years material to the students, fixing any errors that the students have acquired over the past 6-8 years, undoing all self inflicted anti-math psychology the students have, balancing teaching with each and every students' social and home life, etc etc

God forbid teachers were allowed to just teach. Any good teacher knows that the job is 50% teaching, 50% psychologist, 50% social worker, 50% mediator, 50% secretary, 50% diplomat, and 50% whatever else they need to be at any given moment.

The teacher is definitely a factor too, and I've said this before in regards to teaching as I've taught CAD for years - I can give every example I can think of to explain how to do something or why they might need a particular command, but if the person can't relate my examples to how they work, they still may not get it. There are different ways to teach anything, and different people learn in different ways, both are based on the individual's experiences. So you will get instances where a student and a teacher "connect" and the student will understand more easily, and others where they are in different planes of existence and the student will not learn as easily.

I've been in the engineering community for most of my life so legal-ease looks like gibberish to me

I think that's part of what makes teaching much harder than people think. As a high school teacher I have to be able to be able to relate any of my students no matter how different they are from me. I have to have examples immediately available for thousands of different personality types and interests and then a dozen or so universal examples that (hopefully) everyone can relate to and be interested in. All in less than 20-30 mins, because if you don't let students do some in class work where you can help and correct them as they go, then any homework you assign is a lost cause.

 

[Swerd]

The teacher is definitely a factor too…

I didn't think I had anything to add to this thread until I read your comment.

When my daughter was in high school she struggled with math. She was a good student in most subjects, but not so much in math. I thought her teachers were sub par compared to those my son had. Once I went to visit her algebra teacher, and was surprised to find that she was a young English teacher who was told to teach math or find a job at another school. She was struggling to stay one day ahead of her classes. I felt sorry for her because she didn't like math any better than her students did.

I told her how I was disappointed with the text book because it re-invented all the math terms I had learned in the past. I couldn't help my daughter with any homework problems without reading the whole chapter, because the book used completely foreign vocabulary for what I had thought were standard math terms. When she heard that, she grabbed my forearm and with a look of desperation in her eyes told me that she had the exact same problem. The text book didn't resemble anything she remembered from high school algebra. I ended up helping her one night a week for over a month. She actually remembered algebra far better than either of us could follow that text book. I had to get her confident enough to try explaining things to students by methods not shown in the book.

I thought the school system left both that teacher and my daughter high and dry.

 

[fuzz092888]

I didn't think I had anything to add to this thread until I read your comment.

When my daughter was in high school she struggled with math. She was a good student in most subjects, but not so much in math. I thought her teachers were sub par compared to those my son had. Once I went to visit her algebra teacher, and was surprised to find that she was a young English teacher who was told to teach math or find a job at another school. She was struggling to stay one day ahead of her classes. I felt sorry for her because she didn't like math any better than her students did.

I told her how I was disappointed with the text book because it re-invented all the math terms I had learned in the past. I couldn't help my daughter with any homework problems without reading the whole chapter, because the book used completely foreign vocabulary for what I had thought were standard math terms. When she heard that, she grabbed my forearm and with a look of desperation in her eyes told me that she had the exact same problem. The text book didn't resemble anything she remembered from high school algebra. I ended up helping her one night a week for over a month. She actually remembered algebra far better than either of us could follow that text book. I had to get her confident enough to try explaining things to students by methods not shown in the book.

I thought the school system left both that teacher and my daughter high and dry.

Unfortunately that does happen. Because of the severe lack of teachers, not even taking into the account good teachers, they sometimes get asked to teach things outside of their certification. That much really depends state to state. In NY and MA and I'm sure others, there can be big penalties in terms of funding for having too many teachers teaching outside of their certification or leaving them there for too long. Many other states have no such oversight.

Also, NY does as many things right as they get them wrong. IE the math curriculum in NY is changing yet again, and they're moving content down the pipe. Meaning pre-calc content is moving into algebra 2, algebra 2 and trig content is moving into algebra and geometry. Not to mention they often only require you get less than half the problems correct on a regents exam to pass. Can't see this blowing up in their faces.

But yes, that's horrible for both the teacher and your daughter. I don't even know what to say in response other than it paints a pretty accurate picture of the state of education in general in this country.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I couldn't disagree more that the law is more relatable than science and math.

Of course not. You're a math teacher, so that probably means you had a pretty fair talent for mathematics and had success in those subjects in school. So it is probably not too much of a stretch to say that at some level you're likely a natural. In almost every field I can think of innate talent can be incredibly helpful in determining success, but few fields need to be as broad-based as mathematics. I'm just saying we need to figure out how to make mathematics more approachable to the people that find it unapproachable, and the evidence that we've done poorly at that is that such a small proportion of the country can't really understand mathematics beyond basic arithmetic.

I'm also not convinced this problem has a bottoms-up solution. I think the solution will have to be a tops-down policy decision at the national level.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I think that's part of what makes teaching much harder than people think. As a high school teacher I have to be able to be able to relate any of my students no matter how different they are from me. I have to have examples immediately available for thousands of different personality types and interests and then a dozen or so universal examples that (hopefully) everyone can relate to and be interested in. All in less than 20-30 mins, because if you don't let students do some in class work where you can help and correct them as they go, then any homework you assign is a lost cause.

I think you're underestimating how much great teachers are appreciated by many students and parents, and how much we civilians appreciate how difficult the role is. The problem is that the way the public schools are managed there isn't as much of a system of meritocracy as you see in private industry, so the high-performers often go unrecognized and unrewarded.

 

[fuzz092888]

Of course not. You're a math teacher, so that probably means you had a pretty fair talent for mathematics and had success in those subjects in school. So it is probably not too much of a stretch to say that at some level you're likely a natural. In almost every field I can think of innate talent can be incredibly helpful in determining success, but few fields need to be as broad-based as mathematics. I'm just saying we need to figure out how to make mathematics more approachable to the people that find it unapproachable, and the evidence that we've done poorly at that is that such a small proportion of the country can't really understand mathematics beyond basic arithmetic.

I'm also not convinced this problem has a bottoms-up solution. I think the solution will have to be a tops-down policy decision at the national level.

Yes, but my experience with mathematics and having a teacher do his or her job in relating it to the student has nothing to with mathematics. Not to mention that natural ability has it's limits. I had a lot of trouble with analysis in college. It was complicated and difficult and I hated it. I had no natural ability with it due to the nature of the mathematics. It was all words and proofs, which is what I'm definitely weakest at. I actually "failed" the first time I took it. I didn't really fail it, but I needed a certain grade and the professor, who hated me gave me a half letter grade lower than what I needed. However the professor I re-took it with I really liked and he really liked me. However, he was old school. He was not going to give me anything I didn't deserve and I worked harder than I've ever worked in school career and ended up with an A in the class.

However, not what I was referencing. I'm notoriously weak in poetry and I used to hate it as much as most kids I get hate math. Because of a teacher and her efforts I've come to appreciate poetry. I still wouldn't want to read it for leisure and barely see any relevance for it, but I got through the class.

If I can get through poetry and come out with an appreciation for it then I fail to see how it can't work with math with all that math and science have to over and how many more interesting things you can do with them.

Which goes to your point about it being more approachable. As I see it, in a perfect world you eliminate standardized testing. Make the teaching profession more appealing by bolstering salaries, publicly support teachers and hammer home how important they are on a national level. Bring back the respect the profession deserves. At the same time devise a better way to assess teachers and students that is more holistic. Do away with tenure, but have a generous appeals clause/branch/whatever. In the long run this will be bring better, more qualified people into the profession while simultaneously eliminate the need to cover so many topics and allow teachers to actually go into some depth, go on tangents, and bring more relevant examples to the while also increasing student confidence in their abilities.

However this doesn't fix the way things are now. I'm not sure how you ask teachers who are teaching now to do more work without getting a rant from them about all that they do. It's tough when some teachers go into it because they want to help kids and some do it because, yes, in many parts of the country it's a cake job with summers off. Teachers are doing what you mention and a bottom up method is plausible, but we need more highly qualified and passionate teachers to get there. Not to mention much better training and school funding. I, for one, found my bachelors and masters more waste of time than anything. In addition to mediocre teachers, I think the teacher education is pretty mediocre as well in many cases. The funding also needs to come back. Pump money back into the education system like when we needed and wanted all those scientists during the cold war. Where have the science fairs gone?

 

[fuzz092888]

I think you're underestimating how much great teachers are appreciated by many students and parents, and how much we civilians appreciate how difficult the role is. The problem is that the way the public schools are managed there isn't as much of a system of meritocracy as you see in private industry, so the high-performers often go unrecognized and unrewarded.

While I think you're overestimating how how much they're appreciated. Most teachers will tell you it runs in cycles. There are usually a group of years in which the parents and students are awesome, and then there are off years when the parents and students don't click. I definitely understand how much they can be appreciated. You see it in a kid's eyes when they finally understand something, when they get that 70 something instead of failing, or the 90 something after being a 70 something student. How much it means to the parents when they come up to you and tell you that their kid has never enjoyed school or math before until this year. I definitely get it, but as a teacher the whole experience isn't like that. Any teacher who pays attention to how the public, as a whole, reacts to teachers, their salaries, and their benefits can't claim that they think this nation is pro-teacher.

My mom has been a teacher for 30+ years, my aunt is a teacher, my parent's friends are teachers, I'm still close to many of my high school teachers and not one of them thinks that, as a whole, this nation is pro-education and pro-teacher.

I also think race to the top in NJ is a joke. A horrible joke that makes it seem like better teachers are finally going to get rewarded. Gimme a break. All they're advocating with this money for grades scheme is teachers, teaching for the test. A results at all costs mentality which any real educator will tell you simply cannot be how you educate children. You can't approach the field of education with a business mentality, rewarding for results until you find a way to meaningfully gauge "results." A test ain't it.

 

[slipperybidness]

There's 3 types of people:
Those that are good at math
and those that aren't

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

Anyone got a $1000 system they can recommend for me? I've got $500 to spend.

Well, they do go on sale, from time to time. Or, the used ones may be had for that too.

 

[fuzz092888]

There's 3 types of people:
Those that are good at math
and those that aren't

Just like 4/3's of have trouble with fractions

Which reminds me. In undergrad there was some nonsense where some group was on the campus lawn trying to get people to give stuff for some such thing and on their big poster board they had ".....1/5 to 1/6 of people..." I just shook my head in shame to be going there

 

[Grador]

Just like 4/3's of have trouble with fractions

Which reminds me. In undergrad there was some nonsense where some group was on the campus lawn trying to get people to give stuff for some such thing and on their big poster board they had ".....1/5 to 1/6 of people..." I just shook my head in shame to be going there

And this reminds me of one of the saddest thing's I had ever seen. I was in a discussion section for an undergraduate neurology course where there was a TA summing up the weeks lectures. One girl started asking a questions about a graph the TA was showing [it was depolarization of a nerve cell for you nerds out there, voltage on the Y-axis, time on the X-axis]. Her questions soon devolved to the point where it was obvious that this 3rd or 4th year college biology student did not know how to read a simple graph. I was absolutely shocked, and it was obvious the TA just didn't know what to do with this. He seemed to be trying to answer under the premise that this woman cannot possibly be asking the questions he thought she was.

 

[dkane360]

And this reminds me of one of the saddest thing's I had ever seen. I was in a discussion section for an undergraduate neurology course where there was a TA summing up the weeks lectures. One girl started asking a questions about a graph the TA was showing [it was depolarization of a nerve cell for you nerds out there, voltage on the Y-axis, time on the X-axis]. Her questions soon devolved to the point where it was obvious that this 3rd or 4th year college biology student did not know how to read a simple graph. I was absolutely shocked, and it was obvious the TA just didn't know what to do with this. He seemed to be trying to answer under the premise that this woman cannot possibly be asking the questions he thought she was.

People in my finance class have a hard time with dividing time periods and interest rates by the amount of compounding periods.

n/1 = yearly
n/2 = semiannual
n/4 = quarterly
etc

Which brings us back to the title of the thread...

 

[Grador]

People in my finance class have a hard time with dividing time periods and interest rates by the amount of compounding periods.

n/1 = yearly
n/2 = semiannual
n/4 = quarterly
etc

Which brings us back to the title of the thread...

All of this text is simply to meet the minimum character limit so that i can post this:

 

[dkane360]

All of this text is simply to meet the minimum character limit so that i can post this:

Haha, I was helping a someone study and I was like "so you divide the interest by 2 because it's semi-annual compounding..." then there was that awkward pause (fuzz knows what I'm talking about lol). I ended up explaining every possible way he could make the compounding for a test question.

For the past few years I've been hearing nothing but complaints that this finance class was hard. I'm not really sure what people are complaining about since almost 95% of the math questions are just plugging the numbers into a financial calculator step by step.