Audio Power Amplifer - Suggestion

[Sangeet]

Currently have Pioneer SC35 THX elite receiver. I want to upgrade/add 2 channel power amplifier just to listen to music/CD. Any suggestion on $ 500 and $ 1000 power amplifiers ?

 

[ski2xblack]

Need further assessment

Just wondering if you genuinely need more power. Have you tried one of the several online power/spl calculators?

So first figure out if you genuinely need more juice. Remember that power demands go up exponentially (double the power yields +3db, quadruple the power +6db, etc...in order to achieve a subjective doubling of volume, ~+10db, a tenfold increase of power is required), so be mindful of your speaker's power handling limits. And be mindful of your ear's limits, too.

For best value (watts/$), look at pro-audio gear and Emotiva.

 

[Sangeet]

Just wondering if you genuinely need more power. Have you tried one of the several online power/spl calculators?

So first figure out if you genuinely need more juice. Remember that power demands go up exponentially (double the power yields +3db, quadruple the power +6db, etc...in order to achieve a subjective doubling of volume, ~+10db, a tenfold increase of power is required), so be mindful of your speaker's power handling limits. And be mindful of your ear's limits, too.

For best value (watts/$), look at pro-audio gear and Emotiva.

Thanks

1) so are you saying that adding a seperate power amp will not change the sound quality as compared to a class D amp ?

2) Emotiva is aclass A/B amp and I'm sure the sound quality will be better

 

[ImcLoud]

What speakers are your driving...

For that budget, I would go with 2 -apa150's they are onsale rite now for $128 each, which is a steal, they are class a/b {I prefer} and when ran mono to an 8ohm load you will get 150watts each {actually more like 200} so buying 2 and running them as mono blocks is a great idea {I have this setup}... They sound as good as any other a/b home amplifier I have ever heard, Emotiva designed them BPA1, now dayton and carver {ma220} sell them as their own...
That is what I would do, best bang for buck by a long shot, I run an XPA2 which is much more money on my 2.2 music system, but honestly running these as mono blocks sounds just as good AND LOUD...

heres a few more options, for some reason I prefer mono blocks for music, they sound better...

Heres another mono block option, good stuff- a pair of these is $675 Model 2200 Monoblock Power Amplifier

Emotiva XPA2 is what I use for music listening $799

If you dont mind class D - Crown Amazon.com: Crown XLS2500 Power Amplifier with integrated PureBand Crossover System and PeakX Limiters: Musical Instruments

ATI makes a stereo amp that is around 120watts {60x2} but its over $500

Im thinking the best bet is the apa150's for under $260 shipped, 200w per channel is unheard of , especially class a/b reliable amp like that, I used mine to run a 4ohm load for a long time, no issues at all, and some loud stuff was played...

PS as far as class d vs ab, I think a good d sounds good and a good ab sounds good, although I have heard D is bad for tweeters, and I do prefer a/b for mulit way speakers, class d for full range is a great option.... But the a/b to me is just better, everyone has there own opinion on the matter

 

[zieglj01]

What speakers are your driving...

Check this thread
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/beginners-audiophytes/82159-quality-sound.html
And
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/beginners-audiophytes/82241-audiosource-power-amplifier-advice.html

 

[Sangeet]

Check this thread
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/beginners-audiophytes/82159-quality-sound.html
And
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/beginners-audiophytes/82241-audiosource-power-amplifier-advice.html

both of these threads are mine......part of the same hunt....

 

[ImcLoud]

Check this thread
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/beginners-audiophytes/82159-quality-sound.html
And
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/beginners-audiophytes/82241-audiosource-power-amplifier-advice.html

LOL thanks bud,
Arent them jbls like 91db 1w 1m? you shouldnt need much power...

 

[JerryLove]

Thanks

1) so are you saying that adding a seperate power amp will not change the sound quality as compared to a class D amp ?

2) Emotiva is aclass A/B amp and I'm sure the sound quality will be better

1) Some of the links already provided should address that but the short answer is "no".

2) You are sure? I'd be willing to wager you couldn't tell them apart, volume matched, given a speaker suitable to both units.

I've asserted for many years that (well built) amps come in two varieties: "sufficient for the speaker they are driving" and "insufficient for the speaker they are driving". I've looked long and hard, but have yet to find something that convinces me otherwise.

 

[Sangeet]

What speakers are your driving...

For that budget, I would go with 2 -apa150's they are onsale rite now for $128 each, which is a steal, they are class a/b {I prefer} and when ran mono to an 8ohm load you will get 150watts each {actually more like 200} so buying 2 and running them as mono blocks is a great idea {I have this setup}... They sound as good as any other a/b home amplifier I have ever heard, Emotiva designed them BPA1, now dayton and carver {ma220} sell them as their own...
That is what I would do, best bang for buck by a long shot, I run an XPA2 which is much more money on my 2.2 music system, but honestly running these as mono blocks sounds just as good AND LOUD...

heres a few more options, for some reason I prefer mono blocks for music, they sound better...

Heres another mono block option, good stuff- a pair of these is $675 Model 2200 Monoblock Power Amplifier

Emotiva XPA2 is what I use for music listening $799

If you dont mind class D - Crown Amazon.com: Crown XLS2500 Power Amplifier with integrated PureBand Crossover System and PeakX Limiters: Musical Instruments

ATI makes a stereo amp that is around 120watts {60x2} but its over $500

Im thinking the best bet is the apa150's for under $260 shipped, 200w per channel is unheard of , especially class a/b reliable amp like that, I used mine to run a 4ohm load for a long time, no issues at all, and some loud stuff was played...

PS as far as class d vs ab, I think a good d sounds good and a good ab sounds good, although I have heard D is bad for tweeters, and I do prefer a/b for mulit way speakers, class d for full range is a great option.... But the a/b to me is just better, everyone has there own opinion on the matter

Frankly i was seriously looking at 2 dayton apa 150 but was not sure on the performance. Can be used at bridged @ 150 watts each @ 8 ohms. ARE THESE GOOD ??

APA150 vs Emotiva XPA 200, which is better in terms of performance ?? Forget price....just performnace....

Speakers I have right now is JBL ES90 and driven by Pioneer elite SC 35 receiver. Good for 7.1 movie but not for 2 channel music

 

[Sangeet]

question to all..

Why are these Marantz and other power amplifiers so expensive ???? Do they have something like gold wires or a diomand transformers that make them so expensive ?? OR do thay really have something that these daytone or emotiva or audiosource don't ? Is it just the name or something else ??

 

[Sangeet]

LOL thanks bud,
Arent them jbls like 91db 1w 1m? you shouldnt need much power...

JBL ES90... love them for 7.1 movie but hate them for 2 chanel music....thats why i'm here

 

[JerryLove]

It's a mixture. Name recognition is not to be ignored.

That said: I have a pair of B&W 801N's. They spend a lot of times at 2ohms. Emotiva doesn't really like 2ohms. Neither do most amps.

So I can look at Crown/Peavy in class D, or amps like McIntosh and Krell in class A/B.

There are others that know amps more than I do who can talk about transient loads and such.

Though I suspect you'll see a lot more people with Emotiva amps on Audioholics than with Marantz amps (at least from MSRP purchases) specifically because of a lack of benefit for dollar.

 

[ImcLoud]

JBL ES90... love them for 7.1 movie but hate them for 2 chanel music....thats why i'm here

Then you need new speakers not an amp, whats your budget? After you get the new towers, sell your old ones and save for an amp if you still want more power..

 

[Sangeet]

1) Some of the links already provided should address that but the short answer is "no".

2) You are sure? I'd be willing to wager you couldn't tell them apart, volume matched, given a speaker suitable to both units.
90
I've asserted for many years that (well built) amps come in two varieties: "sufficient for the speaker they are driving" and "insufficient for the speaker they are driving". I've looked long and hard, but have yet to find something that convinces me otherwise.

Thanks. I'm not an expert on this so help.....

let me ask you this ...... Pioneer SC 35 @ 140 watts connected to a JBL ES90 @ bi amp - sufficient or insufficient ??

 

[Sangeet]

Then you need new speakers not an amp, whats your budget? After you get the new towers, sell your old ones and save for an amp if you still want more power..

I will look at some speakers tomorrow. Please see thread quality of sound

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/beginners-audiophytes/82159-quality-sound.html

 

[ImcLoud]

It's a mixture. Name recognition is not to be ignored.

That said: I have a pair of B&W 801N's. They spend a lot of times at 2ohms. Emotiva doesn't really like 2ohms. Neither do most amps.

So I can look at Crown/Peavy in class D, or amps like McIntosh and Krell in class A/B.

There are others that know amps more than I do who can talk about transient loads and such.

Though I suspect you'll see a lot more people with Emotiva amps on Audioholics than with Marantz amps (at least from MSRP purchases) specifically because of a lack of benefit for dollar.

the xpa1's will power most speakers with no issues, but not many amps do well when running close to there max with heavier loads than they are rated for for long amounts of time... If you play loud and long than you need to spend a lot of money or get class D, but we are talking low sens inefficient speakers that dip into sub 4 ohm territory for most of their range..

There are plenty of good sounding speakers out there that will stay above 4 ohms and be easy to drive... I drive my wharfedale ev02-40's with an xpa2, the speakers are 6 ohm and the amp hardley ever lights more than 2 bars on the front output meter, If I am listening at caveman levels it will light 4 on each side, but that is almost 100db at my listening position, which is too much to even appretiate the sound, if thats what someone is looking for get a pro amp and pro speakers and get concert sound for concert levels...

 

[zieglj01]

let me ask you this ...... Pioneer SC 35 @ 140 watts connected to a JBL ES90 @ bi amp - sufficient or insufficient ??

140 watts + 140 watts, is about 140 watts, if your lucky you may
gain maybe a little more headroom. Everything goes to the cross
over network in the speakers.
If your lucky, you may get more current - not really more watts.
Passive bi-amping does not really benefit - however, you should
be able to adjust your tweeter levels. >> Passive or not, that
tweeter can not take 140 watts, if there was a realistic 140 watts
going there, the tweeter will die.

In general, the receiver's have one power supply to feed the amps. >>
The more channels you use, the receiver tends to become less efficient.

 

[JerryLove]

Thanks. I'm not an expert on this so help.....

let me ask you this ...... Pioneer SC 35 @ 140 watts connected to a JBL ES90 @ bi amp - sufficient or insufficient ??

Bi-amping is not useful (though I suppose not harmful either)

the ES90's are listed as 91db efficient with a nominal 8ohm. I would expect (if those numbers are valid) the Pioneer to be sufficient to 110db @1m.

Someone with more experience with the ES90's may be able to be more indepth... but since they are working for home theater without problem (which is more demanding as it powers more speakers): I suspect you are fine for power.

 

[Sangeet]

140 watts + 140 watts, is about 140 watts, if your lucky you may
gain maybe a little more headroom. Everything goes to the cross
over network in the speakers.
If your lucky, you may get more current - not really more watts.
Passive bi-amping does not really benefit - however, you should
be able to adjust your tweeter levels. >> Passive or not, that
tweeter can not take 140 watts, if there was a realistic 140 watts
going there, the tweeter will die.

In general, the receiver's have one power supply to feed the amps. >>
The more channels you use, the receiver tends to become less efficient.

Thanks.....will update next week...you guys are great....

 

[Sangeet]

Bi-amping is not useful (though I suppose not harmful either)

the ES90's are listed as 91db efficient with a nominal 8ohm. I would expect (if those numbers are valid) the Pioneer to be sufficient to 110db @1m.

Someone with more experience with the ES90's may be able to be more indepth... but since they are working for home theater without problem (which is more demanding as it powers more speakers): I suspect you are fine for power.

thanks...will update next week