? - $500.00 Max Budget (Speakers)

[JaggedZenMonkey]

I'm new and a bit lost. My son is turning 16 in Feb and I want to upgrade his speaker system. My budget is $500 max. I've been looking for weeks and to be perfectly honest, I need help. 2 fronts, center, and 2 surrounds is all I need to upgrade. I'll upgrade the sub woofer at a later date. I'm replacing an Onkyo HT-540 7.1 speaker system, which I paid only $200 for.

I'm looking for SQ over aesthetics. The room is around 12 ft x 10 ft. He has a Yamaha RX-V671 receiver, which is darn good for what I paid. I don't mind bulky speakers, but I also don't want anything monstrous. I'm thinking speakers with 5 1/4 - 6 1/2 inch woofers for the fronts and center, and maybe 4 - 5 1/4 inch woofers for the surrounds.

I do have a couple manufacturers in mind.

Pioneer:

2 pairs - Pioneer-SP-BS41 2-Way-Speakers

1 each - Pioneer-SP-C21 2-Way Center Speaker

Infinity Primus:

2 each - Infinity Primus Two way Bookshelf - SP163BK

2 each - Infinity Primus two way Satellite - P143

1 each - Infinity Primus three way PC351 Center Speaker

I like both. The Pioneers are cheaper, but I would need to place the surrounds on stands, whereas the Infinities are more expensive, but I can mount them on his wall. I'm looking for good sound quality at a $500 max budget. Which of the above would have better SQ? Also, if there are other speakers around the same price that would be better, please clue me in. These will be an early Christmas gift for my son. I'll be keeping the Onkyo's for the garage.

Thanks in advance

 

[JerryLove]

You've chosen two excellent lines and both should serve you well.

Note 1: When Fry's has them on sale, the Primus 363 is $109. I suspect you can find the 360-362 for a similar price in the used market. Consider moving to tower fronts.

Note 2: I don't see a sub woofer. Especially given your choice in speakers (bookshelves), that would be a necessity for SQ.

My personal heiarchy of needs (as budget climbs) is:
2 - channel
2.1 - channel
Better 2.1 channel (improve the fronts)
Better still 2.1 channel (Improve the sub)
4.1 channel (run phantom center)
5.1 channel
5.2 channel
7.2 channel

And yes, that includes if the only thing I'm doing is watching movies.

Your mileage may vary

 

[slipperybidness]

You've chosen two excellent lines and both should serve you well.

Note 1: When Fry's has them on sale, the Primus 363 is $109. I suspect you can find the 360-362 for a similar price in the used market. Consider moving to tower fronts.

Note 2: I don't see a sub woofer. Especially given your choice in speakers (bookshelves), that would be a necessity for SQ.

My personal heiarchy of needs (as budget climbs) is:
2 - channel
2.1 - channel
Better 2.1 channel (improve the fronts)
Better still 2.1 channel (Improve the sub)
4.1 channel (run phantom center)
5.1 channel
5.2 channel
7.2 channel

And yes, that includes if the only thing I'm doing is watching movies.

Your mileage may vary

You make a very good point. Excellent 2.0 beats mediocre 5.1 any day of the week.

Just an option to consider....invest the $500 in a better front 2 (or 3) and just keep the existing surrounds. Just be sure the new speakers will play nice with the current receiver.

But yeah, if you have a Fry's nearby, look out for their very frequent $99 P363

 

[GranteedEV]

Why not get the Pioneer towers instead? Is a center really truly necessary?

 

[zieglj01]

You will get votes on both sides - for that size room, the
Pioneer will more than handle it. >> However, I would aim
for the Pioneer phase-2 set up. >> The FS52 towers would
not be monster size towers, and you would save on stands.

Best Buy stores have been price matching TigerDirect. For
$400, you get a pair of towers, center and bookshelves for
the surrounds. >> The BS22 and C22, is more than able to
handle the sound in that room.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3381568&CatId=5696

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3381567&CatId=5693

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3381565&CatId=5689

 

[JaggedZenMonkey]

I found a couple new Infinity Primus P362 towers for $135 each, which would bring me right at my budget minus the surrounds I had in mind. My goal is a complete 7.1 set up (eventually). Also, his receiver is rated 90 watts per channel @ 8 ohms. How well do you think it will push the Infinity towers? They are rated 200 watts each.

My initial thoughts were to buy two Infinity 153's and two 143's until I was able to upgrade the two fronts to towers. At which point, I was going to use the 153's for surrounds and the 143's for backs. The Onkyo sub he is using is ok (for now) but I will eventually replace it also. Bass isn't the main objective at the moment.

As we stand, it looks like I'd be better off with front towers. Should I buy the Infinity Primus PC-351 center speaker, utilizing the Onkyo surrounds and sub with his system until I'm able to upgrade? I'm still not sure what would be best. He definitely needs surround for gaming applications, so I'm not sure if I need the center as much as a couple surrounds along with the towers.

Thanks again,

 

[JaggedZenMonkey]

You will get votes on both sides - for that size room, the
Pioneer will more than handle it. >> However, I would aim
for the Pioneer phase-2 set up. >> The FS52 towers would
not be monster size towers, and you would save on stands.

Best Buy stores have been price matching TigerDirect. For
$400, you get a pair of towers, center and bookshelves for
the surrounds. >> The BS22 and C22, is more than able to
handle the sound in that room.

I've looked at those also, but I'm not sure if I could place the surrounds in an optimal position. The room is tight, so the backs will be very close to a wall. I'm not sure how they will sound being rear ported speakers. If they will do well enough, then this may be an ideal setup considering my budget. I love the Pioneers. They were my initial first pick, then I stumbled across the Infinity Primus line. What to do what to do?

 

[zieglj01]

I've looked at those also, but I'm not sure if I could place the surrounds in an optimal position. The room is tight, so the backs will be very close to a wall. I'm not sure how they will sound being rear ported speakers. If they will do well enough, then this may be an ideal setup considering my budget. I love the Pioneers. They were my initial first pick, then I stumbled across the Infinity Primus line. What to do what to do?

For surrounds they will work 2 inches from the wall - most of
the information goes to the front channels.

For that size room, I would not think about 7.1 >> 5.1 will be
fine, with good surround effects.

About what to do - it is your call. People are starting to catch
on, about the Pioneer speakers.

 

[slipperybidness]

Don't worry too much about the 7.1. Only useful in the largest of rooms and even then it doesn't add much. Take a look at a list of true 7.1 mastered Blu Rays, not as many as you might think.

If you have some spare speakers, then might be worth checking it out. I've moved down to 5.1.

 

[JerryLove]

The Primus P362 is 93db @1w @1m. You'll get about 110db out of them on your receiver (50W or so). It's another (usually) advantage of towers: they tend to be more efficient.

Personally: I'd go for surrounds before a center. Simplest test would be to buy your fronts, hook them up, run them in "phantom center" mode, and watch a movie. If you have problems with localization on the dialog: then you probably want a center.

The quality of the center (if you get one) is important. The quality of the surrounds is not (until we hit an extreme). I would definitely chose the matching center if you chose a center... but I often run with no center channel speaker.

(*In none of this am I trying to dismiss the Pioneers. I've heard nothing but good things about them too, but I lack personal experience with them)

 

[GranteedEV]

The Primus P362 is 93db @1w @1m. You'll get about 110db out of them on your receiver (50W or so). It's another (usually) advantage of towers: they tend to be more efficient.

Here is a quote from Gene's review of thte P363:

Harman’s marketing is not only taking liberty with impedance ratings with the P363, but they are also doing the same with sensitivity ratings too. I found the sensitivity of the P363’s was around 90dB at 2.83V at 1 meter which is 3dB less than what Infinity claims. If you want to scale this back to 1 watt (remember the P363 is a 4 ohm speaker) that means its real 1 watt / 1 meter sensitivity is 87dB.

 

[GranteedEV]

I've looked at those also, but I'm not sure if I could place the surrounds in an optimal position. The room is tight, so the backs will be very close to a wall. I'm not sure how they will sound being rear ported speakers. If they will do well enough, then this may be an ideal setup considering my budget. I love the Pioneers. They were my initial first pick, then I stumbled across the Infinity Primus line. What to do what to do?

Here's an interesting post by KEW:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/913866-post51.html

 

[JerryLove]

Thanks. My experience is with the 360 and 361 (and to be fair: there's 1100W pointed at the 360).

That would bring it down to 107db @1m @~50W before room amplification.

I wonder what the sensitivity is on the other speakers he's considering.

 

[JaggedZenMonkey]

O.k, so I'm leaning towards the Pioneers now. My son actually likes the looks of the the 51 towers more so than the 52's. I can get the entire older 5.0 system for just over $500.00. This includes stands. There are 5 1/4 inch woofers on the center speaker (SP-C21) as well as on the surrounds (SP-BS41) instead of the 4 inch on the newer model. I will assume SQ will not be compromised with the older model.

 

[zieglj01]

O.k, so I'm leaning towards the Pioneers now. My son actually likes the looks of the the 51 towers more so than the 52's. I can get the entire older 5.0 system for just over $500.00. This includes stands. There are 5 1/4 inch woofers on the center speaker (SP-C21) as well as on the surrounds (SP-BS41) instead of the 4 inch on the newer model. I will assume SQ will not be compromised with the older model.

They will have similar voicing - however, to put it in a non
so-called audiophile term -- the phase 2 has a more vivid
sound to them. I find that the bass is more articulate with
a better overall midrange, and a more extended treble with
a bigger soundstage. >>> However, for some people those
differences may be small > however for me they are there,
and meaning-full and noticable enough, to consider them a
clear step up. If doing mostly movies and games, the phase
one (1) will be nice, and it will pancake the Onkyo system.

Do not under estimate the Pioneer 4 inch woofers >> That
Pioneer BS22 speaker will out-class, some of them popular
name brand speakers, with their bigger woofers and their
mushy/muddy sound and distorted bass. The origional PSB
Alpha had a 6-1/2 inch woofer, that went down to around
90 hz, and then fell fast >> And at higher power/volume, it
would burp/distort.

 

[JaggedZenMonkey]

Whew! I was hoping I would get a clear and descriptive answer. I'm sold on the 2nd generation Pioneers. Thank you! The Pioneer speakers are less expensive than the Infinity (quite a bit so) and it seems I can get the 2nd generation Pioneers, which are apparently a clear step up from the older model, cheaper still. I may be able to upgrade his sub woofer to a 10-12 inch Bic to boot. I've read they are very good.

 

[Jeff R.]

Parts Express also has some reasonably priced entry level subs, especially in their ebay store. I think I saw their 12" ported entry level sub for like $80-90 yesterday....that will demolish what the HTIB has been giving you.

 

[PENG]

I thought the 363 is basically the same as the 362 except for the cosmetics. I guess that may not be true then because my 362 was very easy to drive. Whether I hooked it up to my RX-V659, AVR-4308, or my separate amps they sound just as good, or bad, depending on the recording quality of the media.

 

[ahblaza]

Whew! I was hoping I would get a clear and descriptive answer. I'm sold on the 2nd generation Pioneers. Thank you! The Pioneer speakers are less expensive than the Infinity (quite a bit so) and it seems I can get the 2nd generation Pioneers, which are apparently a clear step up from the older model, cheaper still. I may be able to upgrade his sub woofer to a 10-12 inch Bic to boot. I've read they are very good.

I think that is all the description you need my friend, phase 2 all the way and this sub should be decent with them, I don't know if this sub has been mentioned though.
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F12-475-Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B0015A8Y5M/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1351209916&sr=1-3&keywords=bic+acoustech+pl-200
STF-1 Subwoofer
Good luck.......

 

[shadyJ]

I thought the 363 is basically the same as the 362 except for the cosmetics. I guess that may not be true then because my 362 was very easy to drive. Whether I hooked it up to my RX-V659, AVR-4308, or my separate amps they sound just as good, or bad, depending on the recording quality of the media.

I think you could use the Infinity speakers with just about any receiver. What you want to watch out for is pushing them hard for long stretches of time on a cheap AVR, but even then the worst that will happen is the AVR will just automatically shutdown. While it might not be ideal to run them on a entry level AVR, I think it would be just fine.