Surge Surpression Technologies: For Better or Worse

Shek5150

Shek5150

Audioholic
I, like many others on this site, am in the process of building my version of a HT & I have found myself looking at at my current surge suppression measures . . . in any case, as I've been looking into it I ran across the following post on another forum (by Doug Deacon, you'll have to scroll down a bit to find his input):

Surge Suppressor and clean power????

In any case, I tried to find something along this line here on the audioholics forum; but to no avail . . . (please redirect me if you know otherwise) . . .

So, I'd appreciate any/all input regarding the two primary types of power surge supression technologies:

"Metal Oxide Varistor (MOV) surge suppressors -vs- Series Mode (SM) surge suppressors"

And "IF" SM surge suppressors are superior to the MOV suppressors . . . then why are Panamax, Monster, and 'the-like' so much more talked about in these forums than the likes of Brickwall & Surgex . . .

Thanks in advance for any input/education

Regards

Shek5150
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
Monster is talked about because they like to sue children's golf courses over the use of the word "monster" and because of their attempted bullying of BlueJeans Cable.

Generally speaking: we are not monster fans.

As far as I can tell, the OP doesn't relate to real posting behavior here at AudioHolics (maybe I'm just out-of-touch myself after so long away). The coverage of Panamax (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/v-interconnects-cables-power-conditioning/81506-panamax-pm4100-pm5100-power-managers-video-preview.html) got no comments at all on the forums.

Looking at recommendations that do come up here (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/beginners-audiophytes/80835-surge-protector.html) You'll see names like "Belikin" and "APC"; mostly because they offer warranties (and we like features like rack mounting and dimmable controls sometimes). Relatively inexpensive gear.

Try jneutron's posts for examples.
 
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Shek5150

Shek5150

Audioholic
Reply to JerryLove . . .

Hey JerryLove,

Firstly, thanks for taking the time to reply . . . I do appreciate it.

Regarding the Monster reference, I'm not familiar w/ their corporate behaviors/history . . . so, your references are lost on me.

Regarding the OP & what companies he was referring to . . . I don't know . . . I just know (or I should say I believe) Panamax is popular in the HT world and it seems to fall into the same class as the Monster units, MOVs (I'm not making a judgement regarding quality; I don't know enough to make that call) . . . but rather I'm wanting to know if there is merit in the comparison of the two technologies presented in that post, or in general:

"Metal Oxide Varistor (MOV) surge suppressors -vs- Series Mode (SM) surge suppressors"

I did check out your link & do appreciate it . . . although all I really got from it were more recommendations and someone that apparently wants to argue the value of ANY in home suppression units . . .

Again, I do appreciate your assistance as I'm definitely a rookie here & a consumer of information & my efforts to upgrade my power management unit minus as much bias as possible . . .

p.s., please excuse me if I'm misusing any popular HT terminology . . . it's been a while since I've been involved in the AV/HT world.... I've been on a 13 yr AV/HT sabbatical

Thanks,

Shek5150

Monster is talked about because they like to sue children's golf courses over the use of the word "monster" and because of their attempted bullying of BlueJeans Cable.

Generally speaking: we are not monster fans.

As far as I can tell, the OP doesn't relate to real posting behavior here at AudioHolics (maybe I'm just out-of-touch myself after so long away). The coverage of Panamax (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/v-interconnects-cables-power-conditioning/81506-panamax-pm4100-pm5100-power-managers-video-preview.html) got no comments at all on the forums.

Looking at recommendations that do come up here (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/beginners-audiophytes/80835-surge-protector.html) You'll see names like "Belikin" and "APC"; mostly because they offer warranties (and we like features like rack mounting and dimmable controls sometimes). Relatively inexpensive gear.

Try jneutron's posts for examples.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
I simply don't have any real experience evaluating SM surge suppressors (under that name anyway).

Before I go, I'll cite from Wikipedia

Experimental results show that most surge energies occur at under 100 Joules, so exceeding the SM design parameters is unlikely, but it provides no contingency should rare events induce energies that exceed it. SM suppressors do present a theoretical fire risk should the absorbed energy exceed design limits of the dielectric material of the components. In practice, surge energy is also limited via arc-over to ground during lightning strikes, leaving a surge remnant that often does not exceed a theoretical maximum (such as 6000 V at 3000 A with a modeled shape of 8 x 20 microsecond waveform specified by IEEE/ANSI C62.41).

SM suppression focuses its protective philosophy on a power supply input, but offers nothing to protect against surges appearing between the input of an SM device and data lines, such as antennae, telephone or LAN connections, or multiple such devices cascaded and linked to the primary devices. In this design philosophy, such events are already protected against by the SM device before the power supply. The limitation of such filter approaches has been examined. SM low-pass filters are generally not suitable for data communications circuits, because they would also block high-speed data signals from getting through.

In comparison to devices relying on components that operate only briefly and do not normally conduct electricity (such as MOVs or GDTs), SM devices tend to be bulkier and heavier than those simpler spike shunting components. The initial costs of SM filters are higher, typically 130 USD and up, but a long service life can be expected if they are used properly. In-field installation costs can be higher, since SM devices are installed in series with the power feed, requiring the feed to be cut and reconnected.
 
Shek5150

Shek5150

Audioholic
Reply to JerryLove . . .

Hey JerryLove,

Thanks again . . . I think I'm going to have to "Google" half the words in that Wikipedia post . . . . . . but thanks, it's information . . . and I appreciate information . . . Thx.

p.s, do you mind me asking what you use? If not, no worries . . .

Thanks. . .


From Wikipedia

Experimental results show that most surge energies occur at under 100 Joules, so exceeding the SM design parameters is unlikely, but it provides no contingency should rare events induce energies that exceed it. SM suppressors do present a theoretical fire risk should the absorbed energy exceed design limits of the dielectric material of the components. In practice, surge energy is also limited via arc-over to ground during lightning strikes, leaving a surge remnant that often does not exceed a theoretical maximum (such as 6000 V at 3000 A with a modeled shape of 8 x 20 microsecond waveform specified by IEEE/ANSI C62.41).

SM suppression focuses its protective philosophy on a power supply input, but offers nothing to protect against surges appearing between the input of an SM device and data lines, such as antennae, telephone or LAN connections, or multiple such devices cascaded and linked to the primary devices. In this design philosophy, such events are already protected against by the SM device before the power supply. The limitation of such filter approaches has been examined. SM low-pass filters are generally not suitable for data communications circuits, because they would also block high-speed data signals from getting through.

In comparison to devices relying on components that operate only briefly and do not normally conduct electricity (such as MOVs or GDTs), SM devices tend to be bulkier and heavier than those simpler spike shunting components. The initial costs of SM filters are higher, typically 130 USD and up, but a long service life can be expected if they are used properly. In-field installation costs can be higher, since SM devices are installed in series with the power feed, requiring the feed to be cut and reconnected.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Appears that Mr. Deacon basically just copied and pasted the info off a SM surge protector manufactuer's website (which doesn't necessarily make him inherently incorrect, but the information certainly appears to be a tad one sided). Personally I use an APC C10 (got it for a fraction of retail price), and it does appear to address many of the concerns, at least per APC's marketing.

https://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=C10BLK&tab=features

Catastrophic Event Protection
SurgeArrest components such as MOVs and Thermal fuse ensure instantaneous reaction to lightning strikes and wiring faults. If the surge components are damaged due to power spike or over voltage, excess power cannot reach your equipment. Unlike the APC SurgeArrest products, most surge suppressors continue to let power through even after circuits have been damaged, leaving your equipment exposed to other damaging surges.
Protection Working Indicator
SurgeArrest will warn you if its circuitry has been damaged by heavy strike or power line surge and it is unable to provide 100% protection. If still under warranty, APC will then replace your damaged SurgeArrest free of charge.
APC C10 Warranty Details

Lifetime Replacement Or Repair Warranty, $350,000 Lifetime Equipment Protection Policy
At the end of the day, I'm of the opinion that your best protection against major surges are a "whole house" type protector at the service entrance plus a point of use protector such as the C10. 100% protection doesn't exist, but this combo will provide the best resilience feasible (AFAIK from perusing NEC recommendations a while back). As I recall, you're a renter, so the "whole house" isn't possible; however, renters insurance can certainly help alleviate the risks, usually for a fairly low cost.
 
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JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
My power is not as prone to surge as dip (many miles of underground cable before we get to something exposed). That said: I have the whole-house arrestor from the power company (TECO) , and most of the delicate gear is sitting behind APC UPS units.

What remains is on surge-supressed power strips (think "writeline") because I have access to them.
 
Shek5150

Shek5150

Audioholic
Reply to Steve81

Hey there Steve81 . . .

Thanks for the reply & the info regarding your situation . . . & you are correct in your recollection of me be a renter . . . and I am definitely covered w/ my renters insurance . . .

Regarding the OP and his 'basically cut & pasting' the info form another source . . . how ever did you determine that? .... rookie here . .. was there something obvious that I missed? I agree that it doesn't make it 'untrue' . . . but still, how did you determine that?

Thanks again.

Steve
 
Shek5150

Shek5150

Audioholic
Reply to JerryLove . . .

BTW: what does this mean: Writeline?

""What remains is on surge-supressed power strips (think "writeline") because I have access to them.""
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
but still, how did you determine that?
I've ventured into SurgeX's website among others previously; SurgeX specifically is advertised on Outlaw Audio's website and I'm a curious guy. Long story short, I recognize the pitch.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
"Writeline" is a manufacturer of server accessories (I am in Information Technology). Enclosures, 2 and 4 post racks, and PDUs. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

BTW OP means either "original poster" (that's you) or "original post" (that's post #1 on the thread).

The copy-and-paste was from the thread cited in the OP, not from the OP. :)
 
skizzerflake

skizzerflake

Audioholic Field Marshall
My experience with actually using surge suppressors was that the insurance part was what really mattered...how much they will pay under what circumstance. When I used my suppressors "in anger", several different brands all failed, when a nearby pole was hit by lightning, equipment and surge protectors were all fried. They only seem to work with small surges. Make sure they pay off.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
They only seem to work with small surges. Make sure they pay off.
That's what the "whole house protector" is for. This is something that sits at the service entrance with a very short connection to a grounding spike. As mentioned though, there is no 100% guarantee.
 
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