Live Performances sometimes just clobber recordings

BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Ok, an update:
I went to Carnegie Hall for Wagner and R.Strauss
I think the last time I listened to unamplified classical music was a centuries ago and the acoustics - gosh darn - if someone sleazed softly - the whole hall could hear it
I really enjoyed both compositions. MET Orchestra performed really amazingly
The Opera part - was ok, but I think that singing opera in german has it's built in roadblocks ... That famous german language harshness works really well for bands like Rammstein and Die Apokalyptischen Reiter.. imo not so much for opera :) (yes I listen to industrial metal and mid 19 century orchestral works :) )
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Ok, an update:
- gosh darn - if someone sleazed softly - )

sleazed softly eh? Is that the opposite of being all shagged out after a hard squak? *LOL* j/k... I knew what you meant but I wanted to beat the others too the punch. :p
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
sleazed softly eh? Is that the opposite of being all shagged out after a hard squak?
Just for you 3db:



p.s: Squak ? Is it anything like squawk ? :p;)
 
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J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Ok, an update:
I went to Carnegie Hall for Wagner and R.Strauss
I think the last time I listened to unamplified classical music was a centuries ago and the acoustics - gosh darn - if someone sleazed softly - the whole hall could hear it
I know what you mean. I've personally dealt with the "snoring old husband that was dragged by the arts loving little old lady" sitting right in my section. :rolleyes: Cell phones too. :rolleyes: Even one that belonged to a famous musician- that went off twice! :eek:

I really enjoyed both compositions. MET Orchestra performed really amazingly
The Opera part - was ok, but I think that singing opera in german has it's built in roadblocks ... That famous german language harshness works really well for bands like Rammstein and Die Apokalyptischen Reiter.. imo not so much for opera :) (yes I listen to industrial metal and mid 19 century orchestral works :) )
I was surprised that you picked a Wagnerian evening. I was guessing you must have been going for the Strauss first and foremost, with 2001 A Space Odyssey in mind. Well, I think it's probably the composer more than anything that is forming your opinion about the German language. (If you think German has a bad rep in "music", you should hear what some people say about Dutch.) You know, a famous aria of his is used in Apocalypse Now, or Valkyrie.

OTOH, I cannot think of any war movies with Schubert lieder. Very graceful, like this Shepherd on the Rock (piano, clarinet, voice) that I link below. (The only recording I've ever heard previously was done by a friend, so I can't recommend any particular recording; this is the first one that came up.)

Also, Mozart, IMO the greatest opera composer ever (I'm such a non-expert though) wrote The Magic Flute in German.

 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I know what you mean. I've personally dealt with the "snoring old husband that was dragged by the arts loving little old lady" sitting right in my section. :rolleyes: Cell phones too. :rolleyes: Even one that belonged to a famous musician- that went off twice! :eek:



I was surprised that you picked a Wagnerian evening. I was guessing you must have been going for the Strauss first and foremost, with 2001 A Space Odyssey in mind. Well, I think it's probably the composer more than anything that is forming your opinion about the German language. (If you think German has a bad rep in "music", you should hear what some people say about Dutch.) You know, a famous aria of his is used in Apocalypse Now, or Valkyrie.

OTOH, I cannot think of any war movies with Schubert lieder. Very graceful, like this Shepherd on the Rock (piano, clarinet, voice) that I link below. (The only recording I've ever heard previously was done by a friend, so I can't recommend any particular recording; this is the first one that came up.)

Also, Mozart, IMO the greatest opera composer ever (I'm such a non-expert though) wrote The Magic Flute in German.
I think the last movement in Beethoven's 9th would lose its effectiveness if it were sung in any language other than German.

I'm no fan of opera but the Magic Flute I can listen too as I understand German.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I was surprised that you picked a Wagnerian evening. I was guessing you must have been going for the Strauss first and foremost, with 2001 A Space Odyssey in mind. Well, I think it's probably the composer more than anything that is forming your opinion about the German language. (If you think German has a bad rep in "music", you should hear what some people say about Dutch.) You know, a famous aria of his is used in Apocalypse Now, or Valkyrie.
Actually I know very little about classical music. I chose it because of Wagner - I do like Valkyries a lot :) (not because of a movie) .
Also most of Beethoven symphonies 1-9.
I guess the common factor I like it very major/forte(Allegro ?) type of music.

It actually was big surprise to me how much I liked An Alpine Symphony - especially the storm (?) part

Any other recommendations to suit my taste ? :)
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I don't think I can quite tailor recs to your taste, but I can sure start blurting some things out?! LOL. I mean, it seems like you enjoy symphonic music from Germany, which really narrows things down a lot. I guess? I like Schumann's 4th, not as familiar with his earlier stuff, and of course there is Brahms' 4th (I prefer his chamber music the most), but . . . Ok, I'll linky the Schumann. It does have that Sturm und Drang thing going for it, to my ears, which I think is probably your thing. (This is the whole thing though, you'd have to scroll for the faster stuff.)


Loud (forte) and fast (allegro) can describe certain mvmts in almost every symphonic work I know of! LOL.

The closest sounding thing to Beethoven symphonies in my opinion are some of those by Haydn. Really, I should say that in reverse: Beethoven often sounds like Haydn to me, and after all he was his teacher for a couple of years. He is often said to be the inventor of the symphony as we know it, as well as the string quartet, which are probably the two greatest formats in the eyes of many a composer! But there are like a bazillion of them, times the # of performances, yada yada. I'm not going to hunt one down.

But you know what's cool about programmatic music like the Strauss you heard is that I think that in general it makes it easier for newcomers to get into classical music. It gives them ideas, imagery, a story, something to connect the music to, so that it's not quite as (intimidatingly?) abstract. Anything that is put to film, to me, automatically becomes programmatic (and often is pretty different than what the composer intended). Like 2001, or Fantasia.

So after thinking about how you like the "storm" part, I couldn't help but think of other programmatic music that had to do weather. Now, the most well known is probably the 4 Seasons by Vivaldi. I will readily admit that there were a number of years in my life that I wasn't crazy about some of his stuff. In fact, during those times, his name could be the first thing to escape my tongue if you said "elevator music" to me. (A side point to make right now is that the interpretation can really make the notes from a piece of paper sound extremely different.) This same music that I once considered elevator music, well I could even see Rammstein members enjoying it! (I just listened to my first 5 secs ever from them, LOL.) The opening tones that some of the strings are making, one might think they could be from a horror film soundtrack. As far as I understand it, they play on "period instruments" too.


There was a show last year that I wanted to see, but missed out on, and one of the things on the program that I also wanted to see was Daphnis et Chloe no. 2, another programmatic (really a ballet) work, by Ravel. I don't think you would necessarily like it, a lot of it is "lush" like a paradise, some melancholy, some dramatic moments, but not so much the "fast and loud" kind of thing. But for the person who likes to smoke the funny stuff, has an awesome stereo, well, I'll leave it there. :p I just grabbed this one, even though someone is saying that it's only a juvenile semi-pro group. Really, I'm just throwing this up because it was the last programmatic work that I considered attending.


The first symphonic work that I look for when looking through a calendar schedule is probably Shostakovich's 5th. This Russian composer is capable of more sarcasm than any 10 composers you can pick, combined, and is just as profound with his sadness. This is the last mvmt from that symphony. The Lento (preceding mvmt) from there is probably the saddest piece of art that I know of, of course IMO. Anyway, even if most of his music is not programmatic, he is often used in film. In the IMDB link, credit is not given for Patriot Games, where they ripped off and bastardized the Lento, as I recall squirming in my seat, during James Earl Jones' final moments. I swear I have heard other rip offs like that, changed (just barely enough maybe to avoid royalties?) and it always makes me disappointed (stronger word needed?). Anyway, not German, not programmatic, but I like it, it's loud, and it's fast, LOL.

Dmitri Shostakovich - IMDb


Loud, sometimes fast, is Saent Saens #3, also known as the Organ Symphony. Sometimes, it gets a little long to me, but that first time you hear that organ bust in (most of the work is without it), and especially when you're not expecting it, it's pretty awesome. Of course, I just ruined it all for you! lol. Well, to make the instrumentation even more unique is the use of piano for four hands, along with the organ. (Now that I come to think of it, I really appreciate Shosta's use of the piano as well in his symphonic work.)


I'm probably not helping much, but it was fun to look some of these up. Cheers. Oh, some other well known programmatic works include Holst's The Planets, as well as Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique (I have a recording somewhere that I bought on the recommendation of pzaur from here.) I'm not sure what you would think of the ballet music of Stravinsky, hard to say, you might want to wait on that stuff(?), I don't know. Firebird, Rite of Spring. I told you I was just going to blabber about.
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Forgot to mention, I already have 4 Seasons and love it... I'll check out other pieces you suggested
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Cheers. Apparently it's too late to edit, but I misremembered the Largo as Lento, and incorrectly spelled Saint-Saens in my haste. :) FWIW, my favorite composer is Bach, not even close, but a lot of it is pretty abstract. Check out some of his fugues. ;) Not so much a form, but a process, and they can be as long or short as you/he wants it, unlike with other "forms". He is the BESTEST! :D

edit, I googled Bach fugue, and this is the very first vid that came up, not sure how it was synthesized, or what was done to it. Basically, there will be anywhere from about 2 to 6 voices in one of his keyboard fugues, and they're all "talking about the same subject". If there is a second idea introduced in there, with its own "exposition", then it's called a double fugue, and so forth. I like the visuals, with the colors. A tip I got from a former roommate/friend/musician of mine was to rewrite polyphonic music, but with colored pencils, to really distinguish the voices from each other when reading music. (It's hard to distinguish visually when it's all black dots all on the same line, or jumping between two lines like in most of piano music, etc.) Bach will chop up the subject, use bits, some line will shout it out somewhere in the middle of all the hecticness (100% of which is still derived from the single "idea"), even staggered over each other, even staggered when it's perfectly flipped upside down (inverted), or even just some of the voices doing them upside down, and others right side up, yeah a total mathematical freak show. He rarely (never?) went retrograde, or backwards.

We used to ponder the idea of music publishing companies printing in various colors, and I have never once seen it. Always black on white, no exceptions that I can possibly think of. Sometimes weird instructions, sometimes weird pictures and doodles in boxes, wacky stuff, but never in color. :(

 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Actually I know very little about classical music. I chose it because of Wagner - I do like Valkyries a lot :) (not because of a movie) .
Also most of Beethoven symphonies 1-9.
I guess the common factor I like it very major/forte(Allegro ?) type of music.

It actually was big surprise to me how much I liked An Alpine Symphony - especially the storm (?) part

Any other recommendations to suit my taste ? :)
Other pieces that you may like;

Tchaikovsky
  • 1812 Overture
    Music to Swan Lake
    Capricio Italian
    Violin Concerto

Schubert

  • Symphony #8 Unfinished.. The first time I heard that I thought I was listening to a piece by Beethoven.

Mozart

  • Clarinet Concerto;
    Eine Kleine Nacht Musik
    Anyone of his Symphonies

Hayden Anyone of his symphonies

Rossini

  • Barber of Seville (If you're a BUgs Bunny fan, you already know this piece from the Alymer Fudd haircut skit)
    William Tell Overture
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
This sounds a lot better on disc (I have Henschel), but this work is probably my favorite recent classical discovery, e minor opus 44 from Mendelssohn (the most precocious of all, more than Mozart even). Very inventive. If my live recording of Shosta's Piano Quintet gets a 10 on my holy **** batman scale, I'd give this a 7.4. The below is second mvmt.


Speaking of Schubert again, he is a great master of chamber music (one of the best, for many, the best), and you might like Death and the Maiden.


BTW, one thing that is disappointing about the Bach vid is that it's only supposed to be 4 voices, but apparently he is having some octave-doubling or something going on, which is a shame, because the idea to do the vid like this is great, but the execution is not, I think anyway.
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
This is the best overture CD ever: Telarc Overture CD
This reminds me of myself at 7-8 years old taking a qualifying exam at local musical school (which I dropped after a year and 1/2) - I could only sing the chorus of several popular songs, but never the whole song

Nothing changed - I still pick and choose only best parts :D

P.S: And yes - the compilation is really good , Thanks a lot
 
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J

jcl

Senior Audioholic
Barber of Seville (If you're a BUgs Bunny fan, you already know this piece from the Alymer Fudd haircut skit)
[/LIST]
That would be Elmer Fudd in the Rabbit of Seville.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Thx for the corrections. I obviously got my point across. :p
Yes, and it was a good point too. My wife and I have commented that the WB cartoons were our first and best introduction to classical music. I don't think I would have been as into classical music as I am now without them. It was an inadvertent stroke of music education brilliance. To this day, fifty years later, in my mind when I hear Lalo's Symphonie Espagnole I see a swaying elephant butt. ;)
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Going to a Baltimore Symphony Orchestra concert tonight

20 Oct 2012 – Conductor Juanjo Mena & Pianist Benedetto Lupo
• Dvorak – Selections from Slavonic Dances
• Bartok – 3rd Piano Concerto
• Tchaikovsky – 4th Symphony

Looking forward as I haven't been there since last May :).
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
...Watch Paranormal Activity 4 Online Free...
Oh, the irony of a spammer promoting a streaming version of a movie in a thread dedicated to live performances being better than recordings. :) Besides, everyone knows that a real encounter with a ghost is a s**t load scarier than a movie. Well, until you get to know them, that is.
 

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