Amp for ER18s?

[mattsk8]

KEW, you have me torn. Tough to decide between that Yami and the HK. I'm leaning towards the HK because it seems to be a bit more powerfull, but that Yamaha looks great and my HT receiver is a Yamaha RX-V1065 and I love its sound.

The yamaha is rated at 100w/ch @ 8ohms, and the HK is 120w/ch @ 8ohms. I don't really think I'll hear the 20 watt difference, and the HK is about $100 cheaper. Aside from rated power output, the only real difference I see between the 2 is the Yamaha's variable loudness control, where the HK doesn't have a loudness option (who really cares, I never use this anyhow). I've also read the bass and treble controls on the HK are a bit cumbersome to use, but I don't use this much (if at all) either, I usually leave them flat.

I like the looks of the Yamaha more, its got a classic appeal. As far as amp sound goes, I'd be willing to bet I'll get a bit warmer sound from the HK and bit more forward sound from the Yamaha (just based on past experience).

Any opinions?? Or, should I now move this to a new section for more opinions?

 

[slipperybidness]

You got a quarter? Heads = HK, Tails = yammy

I'm sure you know this and that's why it's a tough decision, but I don't think you have a wrong decision here.

 

[KEW]

KEW, you have me torn. Tough to decide between that Yami and the HK. I'm leaning towards the HK because it seems to be a bit more powerfull, but that Yamaha looks great and my HT receiver is a Yamaha RX-V1065 and I love its sound.

The yamaha is rated at 100w/ch @ 8ohms, and the HK is 120w/ch @ 8ohms. I don't really think I'll hear the 20 watt difference, and the HK is about $100 cheaper. Aside from rated power output, the only real difference I see between the 2 is the Yamaha's variable loudness control, where the HK doesn't have a loudness option (who really cares, I never use this anyhow). I've also read the bass and treble controls on the HK are a bit cumbersome to use, but I don't use this much (if at all) either, I usually leave them flat.

I like the looks of the Yamaha more, its got a classic appeal. As far as amp sound goes, I'd be willing to bet I'll get a bit warmer sound from the HK and bit more forward sound from the Yamaha (just based on past experience).

Any opinions?? Or, should I now move this to a new section for more opinions?

Slipperbidness summed it up pretty well, but since I enjoy spending other people's money, I'll rehash some points.

Unless you are in a large room or really crank it, I don't see the difference in power as a real concern.
That leaves the digital input capability of the HK as the only other major difference, in my mind. If that is not important to you, most of what you've written above indicates you really want the Yamaha.

Don't discount the loudness control too quickly. I grew up with amps with loudness controls. Initially they were good, but later they started being way overblown (which might sound impressive during a 5 minute audition to someone not familiar with good sound quality). The Yamaha knob should allow you to find the right setting.
While I am happy with the sound quality of my Marantz receiver, I find I pretty much always listen near 80-85dB SPL because the sound is lacking at 65-70db SPL (the bass is definitely compromised). I end up not playing music as much as I would like, because having the stereo loud effectively isolates me from others in the house (and I miss calls, etc.). I like being able to have the music on at a low volume and still have a similar balance of sound as I would at 80-85db! This may or may not matter to you.

 

[mattsk8]

Now I'll probably open a huge can of worms, but how do I benefit from the digital audio inputs? For instance, I can plug my ipod into my current Yamaha RX-v1065 and it sounds better than when I plug my ipod into the rca jacks on my Pioneer SX-950; but it does work on the 950. What is gained w/ digital inputs?

As far as the loudness goes, can't you get pretty much the same effect by adjusting bass and treble; or is there more to it than that?

As far as deciding between the 2, I'm truly torn. I like the looks of the Yamaha more, but the HK has a bit more power and its $100 cheaper. Both are rock solid manufacturers IMO. My plan for these is to play cds, ipod, and I'd like to get into streaming music but I havn't even opened the door for that yet. I have a LOT of music on an external hard drive. I also like the idea of Pandora and stations like that, but I have a hard time stomaching the sound quality unless I'm in my Suburban driving to another state!

Edit: I think I get the digital inputs. The Yamaha only has rca inputs, where-as the HK has a digital audio input; the benefit would be w/ hooking a BR DVD player to it or something like that, correct?? If so, I'm sold on the HK...

 

[ahblaza]

KEW, you have me torn. Tough to decide between that Yami and the HK. I'm leaning towards the HK because it seems to be a bit more powerfull, but that Yamaha looks great and my HT receiver is a Yamaha RX-V1065 and I love its sound.

The yamaha is rated at 100w/ch @ 8ohms, and the HK is 120w/ch @ 8ohms. I don't really think I'll hear the 20 watt difference, and the HK is about $100 cheaper. Aside from rated power output, the only real difference I see between the 2 is the Yamaha's variable loudness control, where the HK doesn't have a loudness option (who really cares, I never use this anyhow). I've also read the bass and treble controls on the HK are a bit cumbersome to use, but I don't use this much (if at all) either, I usually leave them flat.

I like the looks of the Yamaha more, its got a classic appeal. As far as amp sound goes, I'd be willing to bet I'll get a bit warmer sound from the HK and bit more forward sound from the Yamaha (just based on past experience).

Any opinions?? Or, should I now move this to a new section for more opinions?

Matt if your decision is based on looks, the Yamaha is the clear hands down favorite, as Slipp and Kew have pointed out it really comes down to a flip of the coin, performance wise I believe they are identical except the HK has digital compatibility and like you said you are accustomed to the Yamaha sound, so really I would look no futher and make a decision based on do you prefer a warmer or forward sound, do you need digital inputs and which looks better to you, simple, just decide. There truly is no wrong choice here.
Cheers Jeff

 

[KEW]

I'm kind of behind the curve on digital inputs, but I have full confidence the guys here will correct me if I mis-speak.

For an iPod, if you are using the rca plug on the back of the the receiver, the digital to analog conversion has to happen upstream of the rca plugs. Generally, this means you are using the DAC in the iPod. I would think between size and cost concerns, the iPod might actually be audibly inferior to the one in the HK (which is pretty decent).
If you want to stream music to your system via air play or any other network solution. These systems normally output a digital signal.
I don't believe the HK has HDMI connections. Here is the back panel:

 

[KEW]

Oh yeah, if you are still experiencing analysis paralysis...
An interesting study on how the mind works shows people have an easier time making decisions if they make a decision then "see how it feels" as opposed to evaluating two options ad nausium.
As an example, when I was making my 6yo daughter's lunch, I would ask her if she wanted Peanut Butter or Ham and Cheese. Her response would be "Pick one and tell me what you are giving me, then I will tell you if that is what I want." At the time, I thought that was the craziest/silliest thing, but it did get a quick decision out of her! Later, I heard about this research on an NPR series on how the mind works.
So you might want to work your way up to the "submit order" button on one of these units and see how it feels!

 

[GranteedEV]

Now I'll probably open a huge can of worms, but how do I benefit from the digital audio inputs? For instance, I can plug my ipod into my current Yamaha RX-v1065 and it sounds better than when I plug my ipod into the rca jacks on my Pioneer SX-950; but it does work on the 950. What is gained w/ digital inputs?

You avoid a gain stage. That means less chance of a certain hollow sound that comes from too much amplifier gain or clipping.

 

[mattsk8]

Oh yeah, if you are still experiencing analysis paralysis...
An interesting study on how the mind works shows people have an easier time making decisions if they make a decision then "see how it feels" as opposed to evaluating two options ad nausium.
As an example, when I was making my 6yo daughter's lunch, I would ask her if she wanted Peanut Butter or Ham and Cheese. Her response would be "Pick one and tell me what you are giving me, then I will tell you if that is what I want." At the time, I thought that was the craziest/silliest thing, but it did get a quick decision out of her! Later, I heard about this research on an NPR series on how the mind works.
So you might want to work your way up to the "submit order" button on one of these units and see how it feels!

Decisions, decisions! Never been my strong suit ! I think I'll go the HK route, just for the digital audio in. That'll give me an excuse to upgrade my old Denon cd player

 

[slipperybidness]

Now I'll probably open a huge can of worms, but how do I benefit from the digital audio inputs? For instance, I can plug my ipod into my current Yamaha RX-v1065 and it sounds better than when I plug my ipod into the rca jacks on my Pioneer SX-950; but it does work on the 950. What is gained w/ digital inputs?

As far as the loudness goes, can't you get pretty much the same effect by adjusting bass and treble; or is there more to it than that?

As far as deciding between the 2, I'm truly torn. I like the looks of the Yamaha more, but the HK has a bit more power and its $100 cheaper. Both are rock solid manufacturers IMO. My plan for these is to play cds, ipod, and I'd like to get into streaming music but I havn't even opened the door for that yet. I have a LOT of music on an external hard drive. I also like the idea of Pandora and stations like that, but I have a hard time stomaching the sound quality unless I'm in my Suburban driving to another state!

Edit: I think I get the digital inputs. The Yamaha only has rca inputs, where-as the HK has a digital audio input; the benefit would be w/ hooking a BR DVD player to it or something like that, correct?? If so, I'm sold on the HK...

IMO, the digital inputs are a little more than that, but it would all depend on your setup and source. I prefer to run digi coax or optical off my computer mobo to the reciever (or DAC), and use those dacs to decode. My analog off the mobo is crap, but it is a moot point on the digi. If you want to go the pure analog route, then you need a GOOD computer sound card to convert digi to analog. Preferably something that is shielded (Asus Xonar Essence for example), as there is a lot of chance for stray noise and interference to muck up the signal in a computer case. Using a laptop? Then HK all the way, or your gonna want an external DAC.

Again, it is important to me to have outboard dac (basically an external soundcard) or an optical connection on the reciever, but it may not be important to you. I suppose it is nice to have the option later.

 

[mattsk8]

IMO, the digital inputs are a little more than that, but it would all depend on your setup and source. I prefer to run digi coax or optical off my computer mobo to the reciever (or DAC), and use those dacs to decode. My analog off the mobo is crap, but it is a moot point on the digi. If you want to go the pure analog route, then you need a GOOD computer sound card to convert digi to analog. Preferably something that is shielded (Asus Xonar Essence for example), as there is a lot of chance for stray noise and interference to muck up the signal in a computer case. Using a laptop? Then HK all the way, or your gonna want an external DAC.

Again, it is important to me to have outboard dac (basically an external soundcard) or an optical connection on the reciever, but it may not be important to you. I suppose it is nice to have the option later.

And there's that can of worms I was talking about . Your brain must work better than mine because lately I've been trying to wrap my mind around this and struggling. I tried reading through this w/ some level of understanding Need a summarized lesson on digital audio and DACs, but my mind had to call it quits and try to process at least the first couple responses. A few too many abreviations for me to handle ; aac, FLAC, mp3, blah blah blah... I put it on hold until I can afford to play in that arena.

But, I think I'm going the HK route. At least that way, if my brain does decide it's ready to process the info in that link, I'll be part way there! Another way around it (because I think I already doomed myself w/ about 2/3 of my music downloads), is that icloud thing. I have to look further into it, but the 'downloaded music for dummys' version (or at least the way I understand it) is that itunes will match what you have downloaded w/ a good recording. Anyone here have any idea what I'm talking about (I'm not even sure if I do!)?

 

[mattsk8]

HK 3490... ordered ! Should see it by the end of next week.

 

[Swerd]

HK 3490... ordered ! Should see it by the end of next week.

On paper the HK seems like it will be very good with your ER18s. I think you made a good choice.

 

[mattsk8]

I got the HK today. I'm torn as to whether or not it sounds better than the Pioneer SX-950. It's got to be the digital thing. I think the Pioneer was more fluid if that makes sense, and it had more depth. It feels like the HK shines in some areas, but then it's a little too blended in other areas. The Pioneer definitely played more bass. Maybe I'm just not good w/ change and need to spend a bit more time with it, I've only had about a half hour so far to listen to it.

Aside from that; I'm still trying to figure out how to lay this out. I was thinking about a smaller bar, but now I'm leaning towards a cafe table of some sort and building a shelf to put the system on; would be a lot easier!

 

[mattsk8]

Ordered another Pioneer, this time I got an SX-1050. I can't get away from the vintage, silver faced receivers. IMO, bang for your buck they can't be beat. I'm also looking at an old Marantz 2275. The guy that has the Marantz is still on the fence as to whether or not he wants to sell. Hope I can convince him selling it is the right thing to do!

As far as the H/K 3490 goes, in the review they explained it as having "pristine fidelity", and also said "Stereo lovers rejoice as I don't believe you can find a better sounding stereo receiver, especially at this bargain basement price". I'm going to have to disagree. The bass is mildy muddy, and the highs aren't very defined. IMO, it's not what I would consider an audiophile receiver at all; more run of the mill. It really didn't sound any different than the H/K HT receivers, so at that point spend a little extra cheese and get the extra bells and whistles. My Yamaha RX-V1065 definitely sounds better, and my old Pioneer SX-950 sounded better in spades. I realize my Yamaha was near $1k retail, but it's rated at the same power. I think the H/K suffers from a classic case of overstating power output. Kind of curious how it would sound next to the Yamaha RX797 that's rated @ 100w/ch.

 

[mattsk8]

Got my new (to me) Pioneer last week and ooooohhh how sweet it is!! The SX-1050 is rated at 120w/ch @ 8ohms, and 170w/ch @ 4 ohms. The clarity and distinction w/ this is awesome!!! Last night I did a thorough deoxit/lube on all the pots (balance/volume/bass/treble, etc), switches and buttons. When I first got it I had some popping when I pushed a button, and some scratching when I used the volume; the deoxit and lube cured all that . Soon to follow will be a complete re-cap job (all new capicitors) on it. Parts for that run about $130ish, I'll start a new thread for that though. The receiver works great, but I've been told a re-cap will make it perrrrfect .

 

[TP143]

I am building the ER18s as well, along with an LM4780 parallel kit capable of 120w at 2 channel at 8 ohm. Has anyone heard these speakers on a chipamp?

 

[doors666]

Anyone tried a tube amp with these? What kind of power can i get away with. no need for very high volumes.

 

[Swerd]

I am building the ER18s as well, along with an LM4780 parallel kit capable of 120w at 2 channel at 8 ohm. Has anyone heard these speakers on a chipamp?

Anyone tried a tube amp with these? What kind of power can i get away with. no need for very high volumes.

When it comes to the sounds of different types of amplifiers driving the same speaker, I'm agnostic.

But I do believe that an amp should have enough power to driver a speaker without ever clipping. The ER18 MTM speaker is a relatively easy load for most any amp, so most amps available should be OK. It does go as low as 4 ohms, but not lower, and does not present a difficult load. I think that any stereo receiver or home theater AVR capable of 80-100 wpc rated at 8 ohms RMS should be powerful enough. Of course, that can vary with your preferences and listening room conditions.

I've heard this speaker driven by amps with as little power as 35 wpc, and as high as 250 wpc. None of them did an obviously poor job.

The one tube amp I heard driving these was the AVAhifi - Ultravalve Amplifier which is a modernized variation of the old Dyna ST-70 and does 35 wpc. I thought it did well, but after directly comparing it with a less expensive solid state amp with about 120 wpc, the smaller tube amp seemed to produce bass that was "sloppier sounding".

If any amp I heard qualified as a chipamp, I'm unaware of that.

If I were to make a broad recommendation, I'd look for an amp with at least 120 wpc RMS rated at 8 ohm.

 

[mattsk8]

Anyone tried a tube amp with these? What kind of power can i get away with. no need for very high volumes.

Swerd nailed it. When I first finished these I test ran them w/ the 85w/ch receiver in my garage. I now run them w/ that 120w/ch Pioneer solid state receiver. The bass is where they suffer (however minor the 'suffering' is) with less power. They're a lot tighter and a bit more defined w/ more power. That's not to say they sounded bad at all while running them off 85w/ch, they just sound better on 120w/ch. IMO, find a decent solid state amp. Just a guess, but I would think the highs might be a little harsh w/ these on a tube amp as well; but then again, that's subjective.