Audiophile Needed

[erlewine]

Hi I am new to the site but a friend of mine told me this was the place to go for good information and advice. I am getting ready to make my first Home Audio purchase and from what I can find the Onkyo HT S9400THX is my first choice. I have a 73 dlp tv a 20x20 room with hardwood floors 9ft ceiling. I have found the Onkyo box set for 799 or so online and plan to buy something this week. My question is for the money is this my best option/route to go? I like big bass not worried about how much room what I purchase takes but I cant go over the 800$ budget I dont use Ipods nor want to listen in other rooms I just want a awesome system for ball games movies and little music. Any advice is welcome and thanks for any opinion given!!!

 

[fuzz092888]

I think that as far as HTIB's go the Onkyo is one of the better systems. Plus you can use the receiver afterwards and upgrade the speakers.

So in other words, it's not a bad option if you want 7.1 right now without having to build up to it and for a pretty decent price.

I would definitely recommend you go to a best buy or someplace and listen to the system first before you buy, but if you like how it sounds go for it.

Then make sure you come back and we can help with speaker/subwoofer placement.

Then come back and we can help you spend more money to make things epic

 

[erlewine]

Thanks for the response I went to BestBuy which is the only place close to me that would sell anything "good" and they didnt have it on display so the only thing I had to go on is reviews which were mixed I dont doubt this will be a good if not one of the best HTIB. Do you think the receiver is good ect and is this the best thing to do with 800 or is there a better option for the money speaker/receiver package or whatever. Cant wait to get something here!! I am still amazed the difference my Vizio sound bar with the AIWA powered 6" sub is over the factory speakers in the tv lol. Which I do know good sound when I hear it as I have been into car audio for years and I have no idea what I have been waiting on to get into home stereo. You havent by chance heard one of these setups have you? Thanks again

 

[ImcLoud]

DONT BUY A THEATER IN A BOX< this wekend has some good sales, and you have the rite budget... For $800 you can get something decent actually really nice...... The ht in a box units are lacking in the bass dept the most... so I dont think that is going to make you happy...

How about this... a nice 5.2 system Thats front center left 2 surrounds and 2 subs... {dual subs is awesome especially with a receiver that supports it, you have stereo bass!!! } Im glad you said you had room, watch the vid in the add, this is a big sub.. you will have 2

2 of these- Dayton Audio SUB-1200 12" 120 Watt Powered Subwoofer 300-629 $220 onsale, I never heard them but 2 trustworthy people told me they are awesome for the money and they only had one each, 2 should be sick..

1- This receiver is very nice, the only one a little better close in price is the 709 but I think this will do you perfectly.. Onkyo TX-NR609 7.2-Channel 3-D Ready Network A/V Receiver | Accessories4less $288 refurbed, but everyone buys from this site, usually not even refurbed just old stock...

For speakers these are about the best you will buy in your budget $220 rite now on sale !!! They sound fantastic... price changes when you enter the codes, these sales dont last long but they are always around...

Newegg.com - Pioneer SP-FS51-LR Floorstanding Speakers Pair
Newegg.com - Pioneer SP-BS21-LR Bookshelf Loudspeakers Pair If you want 7.2 buy 2 pairs of these $50 per pair, but this depends on your room more than your budget, you need room behind your seating for them a couple feet anyway}
Newegg.com - Pioneer SP-C21 Center Channel Speaker Each

If this stuff doesnt make you pass out from the difference between that sound bar and 6" sub, Ill buy it all off of you for what you paid!!!
That will leave you almost $80 for wires and what ever else you need...
All you would really need is some speaker cables and 2 rca's for your subs how ever long you will need for your room.. {maybe a set of stands or hangers for your surrounds...}

http://www.amazon.com/Stereo-Audio-Cables-Tartan-Cable/dp/B006N05A5Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349671824&sr=8-1&keywords=rca++15ft+blue+jeans Buy these and split them up or these http://www.amazon.com/Karma-Kable-Channel-Twisted-Coaxial/dp/B007PXK43S/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1349671892&sr=1-4&keywords=knukonceptz+karma
and it will match this speaker cable, pretty nice stuff {Ive used the speaker cable but not the rca's, I have used the tartan rca's they are well worth the price, Id imagine the knu rcas are a beast too..
http://www.amazon.com/Karma-Kable-Twisted-Gauge-Speaker/dp/B004Z157XK/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1349671892&sr=1-1&keywords=knukonceptz+karma

 

[fuzz092888]

You just left out speaker cable, RCA's, Y splitter, and three sub cables. Not to mention the added effort of stripping the wire, cutting to length, and HDMI board issues that the mid-level onkyo's so often seem to have.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but you're looking at probably another $50-100 in all that stuff, plus banana plugs if want those as well, and not an insignificant amount of effort.

If the OP is ok with that, then by all means we can start tossing out more recommendations along those lines.

TO THE ERLEWINE:

I think if you want a full 7.1, 5.1, or whatever system right away and you only have $800 to spend you could do a lot worse than the onkyo HTIB. The receiver isn't the best there is, but if you want all those speakers right away, then you have to sacrifice a little here and there. I will say this about the onkyo receiver, unlike many other HTIB's it's actually a real receiver and not just a weird box that simulates a receiver.

Plus it comes with everything you need, installation instructions (not a huge deal since you can come here for help, but worth noting) and everything is really easy to put together. I've set up a few HTIB's for my parents and some of their friends and they're super easy to setup as long as you can follow directions and have a bit of common sense. Not that setting up a "real" system is hard, it's just more tedious and there are a lot of small expenses that start to add up fast. Plus you end up spending a much larger portion of your budget on a receiver than you should when your budget is that low.

If you're serious about looking for something else you can read this and it'll give you some good ideas of what to look for and what you might be looking at in terms of purchasing.

2011 $1000 Recommended 5.1 System &mdash; Reviews and News from Audioholics

I have heard an onkyo HTIB and I actually really liked it. Not as much as my own setup, but for an HTIB it was pretty darn decent and I don't think anyone who is just starting out would regret getting one or be disappointed with the performance.

YMMV, but do let us know which direction you're leaning and we can go from there.

Cheers

 

[erlewine]

Thats what I was wondering I am worried about the box sets sub and the receiver was a 7.1 not .2 and I didnt know if I could use a mono y like in car audio and just run a 2nd sub or what to do about that. I noticed that theTX NR-609 has this as did the htib receiver Marvell Qdeo™ Video Chip for 4K Upscaling and Processing <<<< what is that . If I were to go with the setup like you listed what would be the weakest link? I suppose the receiver would do me "forever" with no need to upgrade later?

 

[ImcLoud]

You just left out speaker cable, RCA's, Y splitter, and three sub cables. Not to mention the added effort of stripping the wire, cutting to length, and HDMI board issues that the mid-level onkyo's so often seem to have.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but you're looking at probably another $50-100 in all that stuff, plus banana plugs if want those as well, and not an insignificant amount of effort.

If the OP is ok with that, then by all means we can start tossing out more recommendations along those lines.

TO THE ERLEWINE:

I think if you want a full 7.1, 5.1, or whatever system right away and you only have $800 to spend you could do a lot worse than the onkyo HTIB. The receiver isn't the best there is, but if you want all those speakers right away, then you have to sacrifice a little here and there. I will say this about the onkyo receiver, unlike many other HTIB's it's actually a real receiver and not just a weird box that simulates a receiver.

Plus it comes with everything you need, installation instructions (not a huge deal since you can come here for help, but worth noting) and everything is really easy to put together. I've set up a few HTIB's for my parents and some of their friends and they're super easy to setup as long as you can follow directions and have a bit of common sense. Not that setting up a "real" system is hard, it's just more tedious and there are a lot of small expenses that start to add up fast. Plus you end up spending a much larger portion of your budget on a receiver than you should when your budget is that low.

If you're serious about looking for something else you can read this and it'll give you some good ideas of what to look for and what you might be looking at in terms of purchasing.

2011 $1000 Recommended 5.1 System &mdash; Reviews and News from Audioholics

I have heard an onkyo HTIB and I actually really liked it. Not as much as my own setup, but for an HTIB it was pretty darn decent and I don't think anyone who is just starting out would regret getting one or be disappointed with the performance.

YMMV, but do let us know which direction you're leaning and we can go from there.

Cheers

ARE YOU SERIOUS, I have all that stuff at the end {sub cables and speaker wire}, no splitter needed its a 7.2 receiver, and he wouldnt be cutting and splicing the cheap as$ 20ga wire that come in a htib?, and what the f#ck do you think comes with the Onkyo HTIB? I way cheaper Onkyo receiver... I owned a Onkyo HTIB, and it is nothing like what this will sound like... C'mon, why is everyone bothering me tonight...

And as far as extra effort, what extra effort, opening more than one box, get over it, he is here to find a nice system, rite now is a great time to SCORE them items I listed, and the 609 receiver is one of the better onkyos...

Im not playing, you have my word, if you buy this system and dont like it, Ill paypal you what you pay for it, just send it all to me... No kidding, not a joke....

Put your money where your mouth is, let him buy both and who evers he doesnt keep buys the one the recommended.. And I would love to see a better recomendation for $800 without using any parts I listed... I will put REAL money up to see it...

 

[ImcLoud]

Thats what I was wondering I am worried about the box sets sub and the receiver was a 7.1 not .2 and I didnt know if I could use a mono y like in car audio and just run a 2nd sub or what to do about that. I noticed that theTX NR-609 has this as did the htib receiver Marvell Qdeo™ Video Chip for 4K Upscaling and Processing <<<< what is that . If I were to go with the setup like you listed what would be the weakest link? I suppose the receiver would do me "forever" with no need to upgrade later?

There is no system in a box that will come close to the 7.2 I listed for you, not a chance...

The receiver is 7.2 and even if it was 7.1 you could y them for $4, just like a car system, coming form car audio you will do fine, this is way easier... No poeer lines to splice in or run under carpet...

 

[erlewine]

To fuzz092888 I am not really worried about the 7.1 I would think the 5.1 would be fine as it has been around for years I just dont really have the time to educate myself properly to spend my money in the right way and there is NO local stores that I would trust to help so I felt best to come here and ask people that have spent thousands or tens of thousands on equipment and know what they are doing before I dropped my budget on a htib as I have always heard DONT BUY HTIB. What little I know the Onkyo 9400 was the first I saw that had a actual receiver and a 12" inch sub which was the only 2 things I thought I should look for. I am here for thoughts and ideas and personal experience... I really thank you guys for your time keep it coming

 

[erlewine]

Imcloud quick question are the towers for fronts better than like a regular bookshelf front speaker? Like I said Im not worried about the room if thats the way to go I dont have no objection that just a big difference a lot of front speakers I see are like a 5.25 and a silk dome tweeter lol. My big thing is that when a plane circles a war zone it actually sounds like its going around the room. Also I know what a big deal a subwoofer makes just the difference my Aiwa 6 made with the soundbar was like night and day. Before you guys knock the aiwa 6 its lasted 18 years LOL AGAIN thanks guys

 

[erlewine]

Another question the .2 seems like a cool idea are they mono or stereo? Do you set them side by side front rear or one on the left one right. I have read speaker placement is KEY and I dont mind crawling around the floor with a sub as I am sure the wife would give me the much needed rest I need because she will think I have lost my mind lol

 

[ImcLoud]

Another question the .2 seems like a cool idea are they mono or stereo? Do you set them side by side front rear or one on the left one right. I have read speaker placement is KEY and I dont mind crawling around the floor with a sub as I am sure the wife would give me the much needed rest I need because she will think I have lost my mind lol

They will be stereo, I just started playing with the idea when I built my wharfedale 2.2 system, and I really like it.. I could never talk my wife into letting me put another hsu in the theater since she hates the black boxes, but Im working on it...

I would need to see your room for placement, for music you want them as close to your left and right fronts, but its not detrimental like placing your other speakers..

The HTIB is going to be really missing in the base and music departments, dont let any one tell you different...
Them PE subs have great reviews and I know 2 people personally that LOVE them, and on sale for $110 is amazing for a 12" sub, one of them would be better than 2 ONKYO HTIB subs, so picture 2 of them, you said you wanted bass....

As far as the front towers they will match the center, and they will have the lower response you want for music and movies... That speaker system gets the best reviews on the net, lol for the price there is no better... But if you are serious about it I would pull the trigger because Im not sure when the sales end..

When I built my theater system I was on the fence about how much to spend, I went maybe 2 levels up and spent around $3000 but I didnt want to I just got wrapped up in it, and Ill be this system would bet close to what I have...

Also I prefer 5 channels to 7, 7 isnt as supported, there is a list of movies that support it online its like 50 or so, not many... Plus the speakers need to be behind you and most people have the seating against the back wall... And your receiver is going to be powering 7 instead of 5 so its less the fronts get...

 

[Grador]

Another question the .2 seems like a cool idea are they mono or stereo? Do you set them side by side front rear or one on the left one right. I have read speaker placement is KEY and I dont mind crawling around the floor with a sub as I am sure the wife would give me the much needed rest I need because she will think I have lost my mind lol

General consensus is that stereo subwoofers are of no benefit. The reason you can move the bass frequencies onto a single dedicated driver is that it's very difficult (to impossible) to localize sound that deep. The benefit of adding a second subwoofer is evening out the response throughout the room and increasing output.

For $800 if you want a 5.1 system I think it would be fairly difficult to do better than a HTIB, though I don't generally recomend going that rout if you really want a good quality system.

 

[erlewine]

Well the only thing in my mind I have working against me is my seating is only 10" from the back wall and the entertainment system is so big that it pushes the right side of it in line with my sectional couch so the right tower would be firing toward the arm of the couch I have to get to bed but I will send a pic or post a pic of the room tomorrow night when I get home. I am not sure if sitting that close to the back wall kills audio or not but I wouldnt think it would be as good as being able to put rear speakers actually behind you.

 

[Grador]

You just left out speaker cable, RCA's, Y splitter, and three sub cables. Not to mention the added effort of stripping the wire, cutting to length, and HDMI board issues that the mid-level onkyo's so often seem to have.

You forgot shipping. There is over $30 worth of shipping on the sub and AVR, and any cables that you'd need [if you went this rout i'd suggest monoprice] would also require some shipping fees. Incidental expenses are non-negligible when building a system and must be factored in.

 

[ImcLoud]

Well the only thing in my mind I have working against me is my seating is only 10" from the back wall and the entertainment system is so big that it pushes the right side of it in line with my sectional couch so the right tower would be firing toward the arm of the couch I have to get to bed but I will send a pic or post a pic of the room tomorrow night when I get home. I am not sure if sitting that close to the back wall kills audio or not but I wouldnt think it would be as good as being able to put rear speakers actually behind you.

I can't believe people are telling you to go htib, its weird

anyway go 5.1 if you dont have the room for rears, and as far as the front tower I would have to see a pic... Mine arent perfectly llined up because they would be near the fireplace or in front of a window so I sacrificed a tiny bit of sq for not hearing my wife complain about "blocking our $30K fireplace", or how we "paid extra for low and tall molded windows to block them with a speaker", lol... Shes sleeping so I can say that, I think.... lets not tell her...

 

[Grador]

I can't believe people are telling you to go htib, its weird

anyway go 5.1 if you dont have the room for rears, and as far as the front tower I would have to see a pic... Mine arent perfectly llined up because they would be near the fireplace or in front of a window so I sacrificed a tiny bit of sq for not hearing my wife complain about "blocking our $30K fireplace", or how we "paid extra for low and tall molded windows to block them with a speaker", lol... Shes sleeping so I can say that, I think.... lets not tell her...

For both ImcLoud and erlewine, I'm not saying to go with the HTIB, I would suggest going with a 2.1 or 3.1 system for now and build, but if you want 5.1 now on $800 it would be very difficult to put something together that is better.

 

[ImcLoud]

For both ImcLoud and erlewine, I'm not saying to go with the HTIB, I would suggest going with a 2.1 or 3.1 system for now and build, but if you want 5.1 now on $800 it would be very difficult to put something together that is better.

So a 609, 2 pe 12" subs, 2 pioneer towers, bookshelfs and a center wouldnt be better than a HTIB? Seriously?

And he could easily make a 3.1 for $800
3 sierra 200se's is around $450, a 609 for $288 and a sub for $110... But I think past pioneers with dual subs will be good for what he wants to do...

I thought I did a good job with the prices, but obviously for the cpa's in here we have to add it up...

609 Receiver shipped to me {I don't know the op's zip?} $307 and there are cheaper 7.2 avrs on there, but we will use this one..
Pioneer Speakers shipped $219.97
2-Parts express 12" Subs shipped $241
Knuknocepts karma 20ft rca's and karma 12ga speaker cable $53 {thats the 12ga you would be fine with the 16ga for $17 less probably easier to run too...}
The total with shipping and all the wires he needs will be $820.97 and if he gets the 16ga wire he can get it to $800, so what is the problem with this setup?

If these guys say that they would go that way over my way they are lying even a different way, my offer stands, you buy them both and dont like the setup i said, Ill buy it from you, and if one of these guys has a better system let them speak up...

And if you dont care about the .7 avr, you can get a receiver for 1/2 that price easily from denon, onkyo, ect...

As far as monoproce cables and wire, they are good too, but I am starting to like the knukoncepts stuff a lot, I started using their wire pants, and then ordered some speaker wire, its nice stuff, actually really nice stuff, I had the rep on the phone and asked about the rcas and he had a lot to say how they were designed and what not... I had no idea what he was talking about but it sounded good.. Sometimes MONOPROCE doesnt have the best CS, I buy a lot from them too though... And they will be a lot cheaper... Plus a lot of these companies are on the west coast Im on the east, so shipping is probably cheaper anywhere else in the country....

I honestly dont know why anyone would be against this system hopefully in the morning when some more members wake up they will put in some good info.... Its almost 3am here and I think the night crew has been drinking... I wish I could go to sleep, my shoulder is on FIRE!!! ok Im officially talking to myself, time to log off, "My Cousin Vinny" is coming on he 12 minutes..

 

[fuzz092888]

First of all over budget is over budget any way you slice it and with shipping, speaker wire and the optional banana plugs you are over budget.

Second of all, have you heard the onkyo HTIB in question? I've heard both those and the pioneers you recommended and my recommendation still stands. Just because you're an audio snob who believes that the HTIB mentioned won't stand up doesn't mean a whole lot if you haven't heard both. Not only have I heard both, but I've AB'ed them at the Best Buy I was at, level matched and all. The onkyo system is great for what it is and provides a cheap easy way to jump into a multichannel system. Yes the receiver lacks a little, but there are tradeoffs with anything.

Third, your overly aggressive nature without any provocation and just plain disrespect to other people providing an alternate point of view is asinine at best.

Fourth, instead of having a conversation you've turned what started as a helpful thread into garbage so thanks for that.

Erelwine, I apologize that in your first thread here you have to put up with a guy who definitely does not represent the quality of people around here. While is recommendation has merit, he obviously still needs to work on his people skills and how to conduct himself in a public forum.

With that, I'm outta this thread

 

[ImcLoud]

First of all over budget is over budget any way you slice it and with shipping, speaker wire and the optional banana plugs you are over budget.

Second of all, have you heard the onkyo HTIB in question? I've heard both those and the pioneers you recommended and my recommendation still stands. Just because you're an audio snob who believes that the HTIB mentioned won't stand up doesn't mean a whole lot if you haven't heard both. Not only have I heard both, but I've AB'ed them at the Best Buy I was at, level matched and all. The onkyo system is great for what it is and provides a cheap easy way to jump into a multichannel system. Yes the receiver lacks a little, but there are tradeoffs with anything.

Third, your overly aggressive nature without any provocation and just plain disrespect to other people providing an alternate point of view is asinine at best.

Fourth, instead of having a conversation you've turned what started as a helpful thread into garbage so thanks for that.

Erelwine, I apologize that in your first thread here you have to put up with a guy who definitely does not represent the quality of people around here. While is recommendation has merit, he obviously still needs to work on his people skills and how to conduct himself in a public forum.

With that, I'm outta this thread

I have heard Onkyo HTIB's and I have heard the Pioneers, its a big difference, but that is my oppinion and you have yours..
I am not some audio snob and I have recommended HTIB to people, but never for $800, they are a good option for under $500, for $800 there is too much out there... Especially with sales going on right now...
I have seen the pioneers compared to speakers twice their cost and preferred. So for you to say the Onkyos are better makes me believe you didnt a/b them.. The Onkyo front stage sounds OK for a htib, but the Samsung HTIB sounded better to me. And it cost much less... Also I remember listening to a panasonic one also {I dont remember the model} that sounded better...

Anyway Im not gonna argue, I wish these conversations were in person, it would carry an entire different tone, this is worse than talking to someone on the phone...

Im the snob and you dont want to cut and strip speaker wires, and you are bringing up going $20 over budget??? {even in pro reviews they dont list shipping costs... "over budget is over budget" get over yourself.