Marantz sr6005 and Emotiva UPA-700

[PENG]

Room isn't that big, it's a condo and I have the room treated with strategically placed ATS acoustic panels, the speakers I have are Paradigm SE3s (sensitivity 93dB), Paradigm SE center channel, surrounds are some older B&W bookshelfs, it's all 8 ohm speakers. I've only done 1 or 2 dB worth of trimming of speaker levels through the Marantz. When I'm watching Planet Earth on Blu-Ray, sometimes I have to turn it up to -2dB to open up the sound to a reasonable level. *shrugs*

The more I think about this the one I get curious. Could you please tell me the approx dim of the room and how far you sit from? If room size is not a problem and like most people you listen to SPL of 75 to 85 dB most of the time then there has got to be something in your setting. The quickest way to eliminate that possibility is to do a microprocessro reset on your Marantz and then do some 2 channel stereo listening in pure direct mode first to find out if you still need to set the volume at -2 to -4.

 

[PENG]

When someone is looking for more power its probably a good idea to get it, If the OP was only putting his avrs volume up 1/2 way he probably wouldnt be considering a sep amp...

I agree 100% if insufficient power is the issue but I really would prefer to try and find out if there are any other reasons. In many cases, one will find out the hard way that even after adding a very powerful amp he/she still has to have the volume way up because something else is not right. Other than that, of course more power never hurts, especially now you can get excellent W/$ ratio from Emo and Outlaw and nice pro amps from Crown, Yamaha and others.

 

[PENG]

When I do it it comes out to 227 watts, I must be doing it wrong because even if I change my distance to 4m it still comes to over 100watts??? I dont know how you got 8-16w, and to get 105db {at 6m with my speakers and 3db headroom} like you said the denon could do, I would need almost 2300 watts!!!!

You did it right, that Crown calculator is of course correct, returns same value as my Excel spreadsheet. The Crown calculator has the headroom default to 3 dB and allow for 0 room gain My numbers were based on 0 dB headroom as I just want to calculate what it needs to produce the targeted SPL at the specified distance base on a total room gain or 5 to 6 dB at the 4m point. Then I would choose my own preferred headroom.

 

[ahblaza]

OK, I have NO idea what 82% of that means, but I was told not to calculate with 92 room sens. and I use the Crown calculator since thats what 3 different sources told me was a good start...

I have the speakers in front of me and I know for a fact they need more than -20 watts to fill the room... When someone is looking for more power its probably a good idea to get it, If the OP was only putting his avrs volume up 1/2 way he probably wouldnt be considering a sep amp...

As far as the BS comment, I apologize, I am recovering from shoulder surgery, on pain meds, and went from smashing the gym 2 hours a day 7 days a week since I was 17 to sitting on the couch for 15 hours a day, I have so much built up aggression my gums are bleeding... literally for some reason my gums bleed since I stopped working out... And I cant stop taking the pain meds cause it is killing me even taking them, the dr said my shoulder was the largest he ever attempted to repair {normally a small scar, they cut me 8 inches}, but anyway, IMO the op should try an amp...

Hey Cloud, if your taking your meds (especially if narcotic) and still have pain, you need to amp up the meds, no pun intended. Narcotics are hard on the rest of your metabolism and if you are using narcotics going with something stronger is highly recommended, you're already using the stuff so just get a more potent remedy, it's not a cure and medically not treating your problem just masking the pain, so get some full body masking. I happen to know a little about this stuff, seriously narcotics are narcotics so why not get something that takes all the pain away, tell you Doc it still hurts.

 

[ImcLoud]

Hey Cloud, if your taking your meds (especially if narcotic) and still have pain, you need to amp up the meds, no pun intended. Narcotics are hard on the rest of your metabolism and if you are using narcotics going with something stronger is highly recommended, you're already using the stuff so just get a more potent remedy, it's not a cure and medically not treating your problem just masking the pain, so get some full body masking. I happen to know a little about this stuff, seriously narcotics are narcotics so why not get something that takes all the pain away, tell you Doc it still hurts.

He has me taking 1000 mg Hydrocodone, not sure if that is the name of the drug or the company that makes it, on my gout pills it just says the company that makes it, but that sounds like the name of the drug.. When I told my primary care dr he said its because Im 290lbs, and to bring it up on my next consult with the shoulder dr.... He didnt want ot prescribe more than 1000 of this drug, and he doesnt want me to take anything else drug wise for some reason... I have a real slow heartbeat {told its normal with people who train often}, that may be why... I was told before the surgery because of the size of my deltoid the recovery would be longer and probably painfull, the weight of the muscle is constantly pulling on the repair... I am used to getting injured, I pulled a bicep off at the elbow and it didnt feel anything like this, I was younger but this is terrible... I was in a motorcycle accident and broke my collar bone, this is worse, I cut off 2 fingers, actually that hurt more than this

Actually the only thing that soothes me is listening to music, I am sitting in front of my 2.2 system rite now, listening to Amber Rubarth's Novacaine... Fits, so I threw it on, was listening to dave mathews live..

 

[KEW]

Actually the only thing that soothes me is listening to music, I am sitting in front of my 2.2 system rite now, listening to Amber Rubarth's Novacaine... Fits, so I threw it on, was listening to dave mathews live..

Music is great medicine if you drink deeply!
I saw Dave Brubeck 3 years ago - Yeah! He's old! The sax player half carried him to the piano bench and I thought crap, this is going to be depressing watching this jazz great fumble through his tunes.
The music started, he sat upright and might as well have been 26 for the rest of that concert!
It was a transformation I will never forget!
I find listening is as effective as playing if you let it carry you away!

 

[wlmmn]

The more I think about this the one I get curious. Could you please tell me the approx dim of the room and how far you sit from? If room size is not a problem and like most people you listen to SPL of 75 to 85 dB most of the time then there has got to be something in your setting. The quickest way to eliminate that possibility is to do a microprocessro reset on your Marantz and then do some 2 channel stereo listening in pure direct mode first to find out if you still need to set the volume at -2 to -4.

Thanks so much for wanting to help.

It just so happens that I made a post about a year ago giving the dimensions of my space, with pictures in the last post in the thread pretty much what the place looks like now, except now there's the Paradigms in the front instead of those bookshelf speakers and there's an Emotiva XPA-5 amp underneath the Marantz:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/room-acoustics-system-layout-setup/76714-no-home-theater-room%3B-only-section-big-downstairs-pics.html

Also, last week I had to send my Marantz into repair as I've been having HDMI handshake issues with my Oppo. Audio dropouts all the time. The Marantz guys said they'd do a hard reset on the Marantz, wipe everything back to zero, and do a firmware update on it. So right now I'm missing my Marantz and my Oppo is directly connected to the tv and I'm using the tv speakers. Oddly I haven't had any HDMI handshake jitters or audio dropouts between the Oppo and the TV, so maybe the blame for the dropouts is on the Marantz (like Oppo suggested when I e-mailed them complaining about audio dropouts) but that's another story...

I really don't listen to audio all that loud, it's probably at about 70 dB (I really should get a SPL meter like you suggested). I have had it in Pure Direct Mode and it seems to give the audio a bit of an amplitude boost. Btw, I used to work as an audio/recording engineer and I've taken good care of my ears, even bringing ear plugs to basketball games.

 

[PENG]

Thanks so much for wanting to help.

It just so happens that I made a post about a year ago giving the dimensions of my space, with pictures in the last post in the thread pretty much what the place looks like now, except now there's the Paradigms in the front instead of those bookshelf speakers and there's an Emotiva XPA-5 amp underneath the Marantz:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/room-acoustics-system-layout-setup/76714-no-home-theater-room%3B-only-section-big-downstairs-pics.html

Also, last week I had to send my Marantz into repair as I've been having HDMI handshake issues with my Oppo. Audio dropouts all the time. The Marantz guys said they'd do a hard reset on the Marantz, wipe everything back to zero, and do a firmware update on it. So right now I'm missing my Marantz and my Oppo is directly connected to the tv and I'm using the tv speakers. Oddly I haven't had any HDMI handshake jitters or audio dropouts between the Oppo and the TV, so maybe the blame for the dropouts is on the Marantz (like Oppo suggested when I e-mailed them complaining about audio dropouts) but that's another story...

I really don't listen to audio all that loud, it's probably at about 70 dB (I really should get a SPL meter like you suggested). I have had it in Pure Direct Mode and it seems to give the audio a bit of an amplitude boost. Btw, I used to work as an audio/recording engineer and I've taken good care of my ears, even bringing ear plugs to basketball games.

After viewing your sketch and photos I would think the Marantz should be able to get you that 70 or even 80 dB of SPL from where you sit with lots of headroom left to take care of the peaks commonly found in music and movies. It is quite possible that there is something wrong with your AVR setting. After a hard reset to factory default you may be able to get the same spl you want with volume in the -15 to -25 range. Then I really think you should run Audyssey but make sure you adhere to the instructions found on the Audyssey website.

How to MultEQ | Audyssey

If you prefer to listen to music without it you can always try pure direct. Two good spl online calculators can be found below:

Amplifier Power Required Calculator

Inverse Square Law Calculator

SPL Calculator

The first two are conservative by nature as it does not have any allowance for inputting gains due to speakers placement or any other form of SPL reinforcement in a particular room and speaker configurations. It also pre-selected a 3 dB headroom that you can change manually.

The 3rd and last one give you some choices of speaker placements and then assume some gains. It does not account for any head room but you can easily figure it out as every 3 dB headroom you want you just double the calculated power requirements.

If you punch it the information you will find that you most likely only need a few watts for your listening habit and environment, that means you could have 10,15 or more dB the Marantz has on hand to deal with peaks and impedance dips.

By the way, I have an Oppo as well and it has no hand shaking issues with the Marantz.

 

[ahblaza]

He has me taking 1000 mg Hydrocodone, not sure if that is the name of the drug or the company that makes it, on my gout pills it just says the company that makes it, but that sounds like the name of the drug.. When I told my primary care dr he said its because Im 290lbs, and to bring it up on my next consult with the shoulder dr.... He didnt want ot prescribe more than 1000 of this drug, and he doesnt want me to take anything else drug wise for some reason... I have a real slow heartbeat {told its normal with people who train often}, that may be why... I was told before the surgery because of the size of my deltoid the recovery would be longer and probably painfull, the weight of the muscle is constantly pulling on the repair... I am used to getting injured, I pulled a bicep off at the elbow and it didnt feel anything like this, I was younger but this is terrible... I was in a motorcycle accident and broke my collar bone, this is worse, I cut off 2 fingers, actually that hurt more than this

Actually the only thing that soothes me is listening to music, I am sitting in front of my 2.2 system rite now, listening to Amber Rubarth's Novacaine... Fits, so I threw it on, was listening to dave mathews live..

I just wanted to reply this last time, this is not the place to discuss pain medication, I apologize for even bringing it up but since I have I will say one last thing. The Hydrocodone 1000mg is Vicodin, the 1000mg denotes 10mg Vicodin and 1000mg acetaminoph (found in Tylenol). I took this for a tooth ache, you need to have that consult with your Doctor and explain your pain, I don't see you getting much relief from your type of pain with this, I also don't know your present health condition but that determines your pain management plan, you don't have to suffer my friend, these heavy duty pain drugs are OK to use for a pre-determined time (not forever) by your Doctor, one of the drawbacks of using opiate based drugs is they are absorbed into the blood stream and pass through the liver. Your heart condition is also something needs to be considered in the administration of any opiate drug. Like I said I am no MD but since you're alraedy taking something for the pain why not prescribe a med that will relieve that pain. Just a suggestion, you may want to discuss with your Doctor the use of a Fentanyl patch, no pills to take and good for up to seven days. I am done, no more of this conversation. If the mods think this should be deleted please do so.

 

[ImcLoud]

I just wanted to reply this last time, this is not the place to discuss pain medication, I apologize for even bringing it up but since I have I will say one last thing. The Hydrocodone 1000mg is Vicodin, the 1000mg denotes 10mg Vicodin and 1000mg acetaminoph (found in Tylenol). I took this for a tooth ache, you need to have that consult with your Doctor and explain your pain, I don't see you getting much relief from your type of pain with this, I also don't know your present health condition but that determines your pain management plan, you don't have to suffer my friend, these heavy duty pain drugs are OK to use for a pre-determined time (not forever) by your Doctor, one of the drawbacks of using opiate based drugs is they are absorbed into the blood stream and pass through the liver. Your heart condition is also something needs to be considered in the administration of any opiate drug. Like I said I am no MD but since you're alraedy taking something for the pain why not prescribe a med that will relieve that pain. Just a suggestion, you may want to discuss with your Doctor the use of a Fentanyl patch, no pills to take and good for up to seven days. I am done, no more of this conversation. If the mods think this should be deleted please do so.

Thanks, I have an appt tomorrow but I think I can get through the pain, it is actually feeling better sinc ethe rian stopped if that makes any sense, lol..

 

[ahblaza]

Thanks, I have an appt tomorrow but I think I can get through the pain, it is actually feeling better sinc ethe rian stopped if that makes any sense, lol..

Honestly that is the best medicine, get used to the pain and you will deal with it, my wife can tell hours before rain is coming in her bones she says, I say that comes with age.

 

[ImcLoud]

Honestly that is the best medicine, get used to the pain and you will deal with it, my wife can tell hours before rain is coming in her bones she says, I say that comes with age.

My father calls that his 7th sense lol -I dont know what the 6th is? but he is a MONSTER too, I had to get it somewhere rite {hes 6-4 250 and like and upside down mountain}, and decades of heavy plates abusing his body have now settled in as arthritis, hes by no means wobbley or anything like that, you still wouldnt want to roll around with this man, but he always says he should be a meteorologist because his worn out joints let him know way before the news...

 

[wlmmn]

After viewing your sketch and photos I would think the Marantz should be able to get you that 70 or even 80 dB of SPL from where you sit with lots of headroom left to take care of the peaks commonly found in music and movies. It is quite possible that there is something wrong with your AVR setting. After a hard reset to factory default you may be able to get the same spl you want with volume in the -15 to -25 range. Then I really think you should run Audyssey but make sure you adhere to the instructions found on the Audyssey website.

How to MultEQ | Audyssey

If you prefer to listen to music without it you can always try pure direct. Two good spl online calculators can be found below:

Amplifier Power Required Calculator

Inverse Square Law Calculator

SPL Calculator

The first two are conservative by nature as it does not have any allowance for inputting gains due to speakers placement or any other form of SPL reinforcement in a particular room and speaker configurations. It also pre-selected a 3 dB headroom that you can change manually.

The 3rd and last one give you some choices of speaker placements and then assume some gains. It does not account for any head room but you can easily figure it out as every 3 dB headroom you want you just double the calculated power requirements.

If you punch it the information you will find that you most likely only need a few watts for your listening habit and environment, that means you could have 10,15 or more dB the Marantz has on hand to deal with peaks and impedance dips.

By the way, I have an Oppo as well and it has no hand shaking issues with the Marantz.

Update: I picked up the Marantz from the repair center (they couldn't find anything wrong with it) and did a hard reset to factory settings. I hooked everything back up, re-did the Audyssey, and the levels are better. Haven't had an audio dropout, although maybe that was happening because the Oppo audio's settings "HDMI Audio" were set to "Auto" instead of "Bitstream"? Not sure, but I'm getting better levels now. And as it happens, the Beriloz SACD on the High quality sound albums thread came in the mail today, I think I'm going to go listen to that now.

 

[PENG]

Update: I picked up the Marantz from the repair center (they couldn't find anything wrong with it) and did a hard reset to factory settings. I hooked everything back up, re-did the Audyssey, and the levels are better. Haven't had an audio dropout, although maybe that was happening because the Oppo audio's settings "HDMI Audio" were set to "Auto" instead of "Bitstream"? Not sure, but I'm getting better levels now. And as it happens, the Beriloz SACD on the High quality sound albums thread came in the mail today, I think I'm going to go listen to that now.

Thanks for the update. It was an authorized repair center you sent the unit to right? Anyway, hopefully you can now focus on enjoying the nice Marantz sound without second guessing.

You may still want to pick up one of those cheap RS analog meter.

Amazon.com: spl meter radio shack

People seem to think the analog one is better.

 

[wlmmn]

Yeah, it was an authorized center. At least that's what the strange man in the alleyway told me between gunshots

I'm having audio dropouts again on the Oppo; time to call them and also ask why their Netlix streaming and YouTube applications freeze up when I use them.

Update: I just got off the phone with Oppo telling them this, and that I just got the Marantz back from an authorized repair center, and they still put the blame on the Marantz, suggesting that maybe they didn't have the software available at "wherever you took it". Oppo seems hell bent on putting the ball in Marantz's court on this. After I mentioned the Oppo's Netflix and YouTube apps are freezing (yes, I do have the latest firmware update, that's another easy out support centers try to go for) and that the Netflix on my PS3 has never froze up, they finally had no more "out" on the problem and decided to have me send it to them to take a look at it. This reminds me of the old urban legend of Rolls Royce refusing to service one of their cars that had a flat fire because "our cars never break down". Sheesh.