Need the best amp

[ImcLoud]

It all depends on your budget,
I had the 1805 and the XPA35 side by side listening to home theater and music through my ascend 340's and I couldnt pick which one sounded better, I had 3 other people there and though they sounded a little different, I couldnt say the 1805 was better or worse, although the emo was louder and ran cooler for some reason, they got about the same playing time and the 1805 was much warmer than the emo...

So I bought my Bstock xpa5 for $799 and I bought my bstock xpa2 for 699 they both have satisfied me, and emo cs is second to none...
My deciding factors were looks and price. Had very little to do with sound because I couldnt say one was better than the other..

Good luck with your choice...
PS the xpa2 is a beast I run it in my 2.2 system with a pair of EVO40's and it is insane..

 

[KEW]

...the emo was louder ... for some reason...

Read some Audioholic Pro reviews of Emo amps. Emotiva consistently steps up the gain more than most power amps. It is mainly a marketing ploy because it makes the amp seem louder (though, of course another amp with the same power will clip at the same point). However, it can be beneficial used with some of the cheapest receivers which output a weak signal.

The only drawback to this is it can make the volume control on your pre a bit more touchy.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Read some Audioholic Pro reviews of Emo amps. Emotiva consistently steps up the gain more than most power amps. It is mainly a marketing ploy because it makes the amp seem louder (though, of course another amp with the same power will clip at the same point). However, it can be beneficial used with some of the cheapest receivers which output a weak signal.

The only drawback to this is it can make the volume control on your pre a bit more touchy.

It's not a marketing ploy, it is a response to under-engineered AVR pre-amp outputs that have trouble driving much more than 1V at 10K ohms.

You're right about the volume control issue, especially if you use a very good pre-amp intended for amps with 25-28db of gain.

 

[GranteedEV]

Crown XLS2500
Crown XLS 2500 | Sweetwater.com
1200w @ 2 ohms means it should be able to drive the legacies.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I had the 1805 and the XPA5...the emo was louder...

Probably because the ATI has a voltage gain of 28dB and the Emotiva has a voltage of 38dB.

 

[ImcLoud]

Probably because the ATI has a voltage gain of 28dB and the Emotiva has a voltage of 38dB.

Probably, or it could be the extra 100 watts of headroom it has...
Demo them and make a choice, I would say them 2 are the best for the money, in my limited experience more power is better sound, if nothing is struggling everything sounds good and most likely will last a long time..
PS the legacy speakers sens is around 95db, correct? Shouldnt be too hard to run them, even if they are 4 ohm...

 

[Irvrobinson]

Probably, or it could be the extra 100 watts of headroom it has...

Headroom is measured in decibels. 100w isn't even 3db.

 

[ImcLoud]

Headroom is measured in decibels. 100w isn't even 3db.

Im confused {it doesn't take much},
1 isnt 3 db over twice the volume? So if you were listening at 95db and wanted to go to 98db it would be more than twice as loud?
I was always told you want 3 db of headroom...

And If you had an 89db sens speaker and fed it 36 watts you would have 95db spl, if you fed that speaker 136 watts you would have almost 101db spl so in that case 100 watts is 6db?

Now a 98db sens speakers should make almost 110db at 3m with only 100 watts, so how is 100watts only 3db... Is there a chart or equation for this, to me I like having that extra power sitting there for a rainy day

Another reason to go Emotiva is resale value, Ive seen used xpa5's sell for over $800 on ebay.... Thats what I paid for mine new...

 

[Irvrobinson]

Im confused {it doesn't take much},
1 isnt 3 db over twice the volume? So if you were listening at 95db and wanted to go to 98db it would be more than twice as loud?
I was always told you want 3 db of headroom...

And If you had an 89db sens speaker and fed it 36 watts you would have 95db spl, if you fed that speaker 136 watts you would have almost 101db spl so in that case 100 watts is 6db?

Now a 98db sens speakers should make almost 110db at 3m with only 100 watts, so how is 100watts only 3db... Is there a chart or equation for this, to me I like having that extra power sitting there for a rainy day

Another reason to go Emotiva is resale value, Ive seen used xpa5's sell for over $800 on ebay.... Thats what I paid for mine new...

The ATI 1800 is 180w/ch. The XPA-2 is 300w. A 3db increase in headroom over the ATI would be 360w/ch. Every doubling in *power* is 3db, but doubling in loudness takes about 10db.

The Legacy Focus in question falls to about 2 ohms in the bass octaves at a capacitive phase angle, so it is considered a difficult load for an amplifier, even though it is quite sensitive.

 

[ImcLoud]

The ATI 1800 is 180w/ch. The XPA-2 is 300w. A 3db increase in headroom over the ATI would be 360w/ch. Every doubling in *power* is 3db, but doubling in loudness takes about 10db.

The Legacy Focus in question falls to about 2 ohms in the bass octaves at a capacitive phase angle, so it is considered a difficult load for an amplifier, even though it is quite sensitive.

So if wattage output doubles every time you double the load? at 2 ohms the xpa2 would put out 1200 watts? If I remember correctly from my Orion 2250 days...

Neither amp is rated for 2 ohms?

 

[GranteedEV]

So if wattage output doubles every time you double the load?

Theoretically it should, but in reality it likely won't. People who tried to drive their Axiom M80s with XPA2s found that they would go into protection mode.

 

[Irvrobinson]

So if wattage output doubles every time you double the load? at 2 ohms the xpa2 would put out 1200 watts? If I remember correctly from my Orion 2250 days...

Neither amp is rated for 2 ohms?

Well, in theory power doubles as impedance halves, but not too many amps are very good at that, especially down to two ohms. Most amps that claim to "double down" are conservatively rated into eight ohms, so they produce more than their rated power, produce about their rated power into four ohms, and then the power supply runs out of gas before doubling into two ohms. The ATIs typically are rated at 150% of their eight ohm power into four ohms, and are just said to be "stable" into two ohm loads.

If you want an amp that really doubles down you need to invest in something like a Krell, and then you also need to give it a 240v line or a 30amp 120v line to power it. Personally, I think it's overkill, but if that winds up your clock, cool.

When I owned the Focus I just vertically bi-amp'd them with Levinson amps which were rated to two ohms. It made them sound better. The only instance of passive bi-amping being effective I've ever heard.

 

[DD66000]

There are older amps that do in fact double down. Like my Citation 19;
100w>8Ω, 200w>4Ω. And when bridged 400w>8Ω.

Parasound JC1 doubles down 400w>8Ω. 800w>4Ω. I know people who had Revel Salon2 and were unhappy with the sound until they picked up a pair of JC1. the Salon2 @ only 86db needs plenty of power.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There are older amps that do in fact double down. Like my Citation 19;
100w>8Ω, 200w>4Ω. And when bridged 400w>8Ω.

Parasound JC1 doubles down 400w>8Ω. 800w>4Ω. I know people who had Revel Salon2 and were unhappy with the sound until they picked up a pair of JC1. the Salon2 @ only 86db needs plenty of power.

When S&V Magazine reviewed the Salon2, they asked Kevin Voecks ( Salon2 chief designer) to choose an amp for them. He chose an ATI amp. I think it was only 150wpc - one of the older ATI amps.

 

[DD66000]

When S&V Magazine reviewed the Salon2, they asked Kevin Voecks ( Salon2 chief designer) to choose an amp for them. He chose an ATI amp. I think it was only 150wpc - one of the older ATI amps.

Also a very good amp.
I've personally had amps in the past that just flat ran out of gas, or go into protection mode. And that was using speakers that were 91db rated. And also had a powered sub connected!

 

[jinjuku]

Crown XLS2500
Crown XLS 2500 | Sweetwater.com
1200w @ 2 ohms means it should be able to drive the legacies.

Yeppers, sounds great. Can handle 2 ohm loads, wide phase angle loads, highly reactive loads.

I doubt there is a commercial speaker out there that this amp could not drive. This includes Maggies, Zu, Legacy etc...

 

[TazExprez]

How does a used ATI AT2505 compare to the other amps I mentioned? The other amps are a new Emotiva XPA-5, a B stock ATI AT1805, and a used Parasound A52.

The AT2505 and the AT1805 would cost about the same, the A52 would cost more, and the XPA-5 would be the cheapest option.

Thanks for any help.

 

[jinjuku]

If your intent is to bi-amp then you can't use the XPA-5. I don't know about the ATI. The best advice, and Grant was leading you to this, is get the Crown. Even the 1500 at 775 WPC at 2 Ohm is more than enough.

 

[ahblaza]

If your intent is to bi-amp then you can't use the XPA-5. I don't know about the ATI. The best advice, and Grant was leading you to this, is get the Crown. Even the 1500 at 775 WPC at 2 Ohm is more than enough.

I agree, get the Crown, the 1500 will be just fine. The 1000 has the lowest SN ratio of 97 dB, the 1500-2500 are all at 103 dB. If this matters to anyone. I am very happy with my 1500.

 

[PENG]

There are older amps that do in fact double down. Like my Citation 19;
100w>8Ω, 200w>4Ω. And when bridged 400w>8Ω.

Parasound JC1 doubles down 400w>8Ω. 800w>4Ω. I know people who had Revel Salon2 and were unhappy with the sound until they picked up a pair of JC1. the Salon2 @ only 86db needs plenty of power.

In theory it is not possible to double down due to losses that increase with current, if for no other reasons, but amps like Krell's, Bouders etc., can get very close. I suspect in practice most simply rate their output into 8 ohms conservatively and then rate their output into 4 ohms more naturally or aggressively to give people the impression that they double down. I think Irvrobinson might have implied that too in his post but I am not sure. For example ATI can rate their 200W 8 ohms 150W to make their 300W into 4 ohms like they double down. They didn't but they could have..