3.1 <$1,000

[Thevinegru]

I'm looking to build a system to go with my new 60" Panasonic plasma TV for under a thousand bucks. The left and right speakers would be around 8' apart and definitely no rear speakers allowed by the wife.

I was thinking of getting a Denon AVR-1712 refurb for $230. Is this a good receiver for 3.1? Would I be better off with something else? I wanted to put the speakers in the entertainment center so I need bookshelf speakers. Any recommendations? And what do you recommend for the sub?

Thanks

 

[caper26]

If you are putting speakers in an enclosed space, i would recommend front ported bookshelves, or consider plugging any rear ports since they won't be able to breathe properly. I am not sure if there are any "3.1" receivers, so you will likely end up with a 5.1 AVR, which is fine. So you HAVE to get bookshelves? Are you in the USA? Do you have to buy new, or is refurb or used ok too??

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I'm looking to build a system to go with my new 60" Panasonic plasma TV for under a thousand bucks. The left and right speakers would be around 8' apart and definitely no rear speakers allowed by the wife.

I was thinking of getting a Denon AVR-1712 refurb for $230. Is this a good receiver for 3.1? Would I be better off with something else? I wanted to put the speakers in the entertainment center so I need bookshelf speakers. Any recommendations? And what do you recommend for the sub?

Thanks

Yea, Denon 1712 with Audyssey MultEQ XT is a very solid choice...
You might want to consider refub 1912 for network control, updates and audio streaming features...

Speakers - One of better choices in this budget are Pioneer speakers - ether find 2011 models (frequently on sale on Newegg) or updated and improved 2012 models

Sub wise - It's hard to recommend without knowing your room size,
There is liquidation sale for JAMO 650 sub on vanns for $250/each - which is amazing deal... Another great value in this price range is Energy 10.3 sub

 

[Tin Ear]

On the receiver end, I like denon's low line products. There is a nice onkyo receiver in the bargain basement of accessories4less that you could do a comparo to as well if you liked.

I am biased, but personally for speakers I would look to Infinity clearance and refurb sections. There are some really great deals (IMHO) on some solid components.

For a nice Center Channel I would consider either the PC251BK or the better PC351BK. I only list them both because they are different sizes and you did not mention any limitations.

PC251BK at 18 inches wide for $140:

Harman Audio - PC251BK

... or the PC351BK at 24 inches wide for $193:

Harman Audio - PC351BK

You have similar choices for the Bookshelves. Once again without knowing your size limitations the following fit the budget and are front ported as caper26 suggested.

The P153BK at 13 inches tall and $77 each:

Harman Audio - P153BK

The P163BK at 14 3/4 inches tall and $98 each:

Harman Audio - P163BK

... This last one is not a ported design, but is a better speaker. It may be worth considering if your situation changes and would still be sonically matched to the centers and sub I am posting.

BETA20BES at 13 3/4 tall and $139 each:

Harman Audio - BETA20BES

For a really nice sub for only 200 bones, look no further than the PS210BK (just be careful about how you set it up). I have a pair in my HT and am quite happy with them:

Harman Audio - PS210BK

 

[Thevinegru]

Room Dimensions

The entertainment center is in an indent in the wall about 11.5' wide and 2' deep. There is a little under 6" gap on each side between bookshelf ends of entertainment center and wall so if it's advisable to get standing speakers then I could go that route. The room itself is 17' wide and 40' deep and the distance from couch to tv is 14'.

Edit: The opening in the middle of the entertainment center is 18" wide and 25" tall. I wanted to use that for the sub, receiver, and center channel, if possible.

Edit: How do I know where ports are on speakers?

 

[Tin Ear]

The room itself is 17' wide and 40' deep and the distance from couch to tv is 14'.

Holy caverns Batman! It sounds like you live in a bowling alley . The truth is, bookshelves, even good ones, will likley NEVER fill that kind of space properly. I say go look at some of the matching Infinity towers in the same clerance and refurb sections ... of course that would mean a hit to the budget, but I think we were well under your 1K limit anyway. The fact we are now talking about towers opens many new doors, but your budget becomes the limiting factor. We still need to get you into some quality components.

Try these. You COULD go with the smaller P253BK, but I think you will want to step up to the P363BK for a room that size.

Harman Audio - P253BK

The above is a 2-way speaker, only carrying 2 woofers and a tweeter. It is only really one step above the bookshelves I posted and while it will produce a larger sound, it will not likley sonically produce a sound you are pleased with. It will be trying awful hard and pushed to it's limits. For 160 bones though, you can go too far wrong.

I think this is a better fit:

Harman Audio - P363BK

It is a 3-way speaker and not only does it carry the extra needed midrange driver, it has larger woofers as well. It does justify the higher $231 price tag.

If possible it should be paired withthe larger of the 2 centers I posted originally.

Edit: How do I know where ports are on speakers?

The "ports" are where the open holes are. You can read up on the trade offs between ported versus sealed designs elsewhere on the site. The sub I pointed you to will not be beaten at twice the price IMHO, but it is ported at the REAR. It will not likley do well in an enclosed space. You can either:

A) look for another spot to "hide it" in the room
B) pay more for a different but equally performing sub

Let's see ...

*** sharpens pencil ***

193 (center)
462 (mains 231 X2)
199 (sub)
230 (receiver)

1084

If you opt into the Onkyo as opposed to the Denon it would save you roughly 40 bucks. If it were my money, I would spend the extra 84 bones and listen to the wife whine until she got her first taste of a movie on the new system (in other words, I prefer Denon electronics).

 

[zieglj01]

The entertainment center is in an indent in the wall about 11.5' wide and 2' deep. There is a little under 6" gap on each side between bookshelf ends of entertainment center and wall so if it's advisable to get standing speakers then I could go that route. The room itself is 17' wide and 40' deep and the distance from couch to tv is 14'.

Edit: The opening in the middle of the entertainment center is 18" wide and 25" tall. I wanted to use that for the sub, receiver, and center channel, if possible.

Edit: How do I know where ports are on speakers?

As far as a port - the speakers will have a whole with a small tube.
Also some have slot ports - however, there is still a hole.

I would try to do towers if you can - and if you can keep them from
being stuffed in a corner, against the back wall and side walls. Also
speakers need room to radiate around space, to give you some good
sound, with imaging and a soundstage.

If you stick bookshelves in a cabinet/cubby hole, then front ported is
reccomended. Cubby holes for me, are like a cavity with a tunnel effect.
Rear ported speakers tend to sound poor in a cubby hole. I would try
to make sure that the speakers are to the front edge and a little bit
over >> and make sure that no part of the speaker cabinet touches the
entertainment cabinet, and has some room around it. Put some type of
bumper feet under the speakers.

You need a big subwoofer for the best sound in your room. And I prefer
that subwoofers are out in the open. The same with speakers, I do not
like the subwoofer cabinet touching other wood, and no rear ports in the
cabinet.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Infinity/Harman Primus line is actually ok, however I strongly believe that Andrew Jones (From TAD Labs - which designs 50k speakers) did a better job with these entry level speakers

Watch this interview:
Home Theater Geeks 112 | TWiT.TV

You do have a very large room and very tiny budget: You going to need much more sub(s)
My advice to you is to consider to postpone the center speaker for now or small adjustment to budget

Get a pair of towers:
SP-FS52 - Andrew Jones Designed Floorstanding Loudspeakers, re-engineered for 2012 | Pioneer Electronics USA

AVR as discussed and for sub - PA-150
go here:
Premier Acoustic PA-150 1000 Watt Powered Subwoo

and offer them $385 with shipping - they will most likely accept your offer

Edit:
also matching center: if you can stretch the budget - you should. Surrounds don't have to match and you could get them ANY time later on.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Speakers/Home+Theater+Speakers/SP-C22

 

[zieglj01]

Infinity/Harman Primus line is actually ok, however I strongly believe that Andrew Jones (From TAD Labs - which designs 50k speakers) did a better job with these entry level speakers

Watch this interview:
Home Theater Geeks 112 | TWiT.TV

You do have a very large room and very tiny budget: You going to need much more sub(s)
My advice to you is to consider to postpone the center speaker for now or small adjustment to budget

Get a pair of towers:
SP-FS52 - Andrew Jones Designed Floorstanding Loudspeakers, re-engineered for 2012 | Pioneer Electronics USA

I for one, will take the new Pioneer speakers, over the Infinity Primus.
Infinity is decent - however this Pioneer line, is really good.

 

[Thevinegru]

I don't think I have room for a center channel and an amp anyway with the height in the center cabinet being 25" tall. Aesthetics are the primary concern with the wife. She doesn't even want me buying this stuff. She thinks I'm gonna blow her ears out which I probably will.

In a very detailed post in this section of the forum, these speakers (Ascend Acoustics HTM-200) were strongly advised. Thoughts? And if stand speakers are still better, will the 6 inches of clearance cause problems?

Edit: I don't have room next to my entertainment center for the pioneer or the HK

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I don't think I have room for a center channel and an amp anyway with the height in the center cabinet being 25" tall. Aesthetics are the primary concern with the wife. She doesn't even want me buying this stuff. She thinks I'm gonna blow her ears out which I probably will.

In a very detailed post in this section of the forum, these speakers (Ascend Acoustics HTM-200) were strongly advised. Thoughts? And if stand speakers are still better, will the 6 inches of clearance cause problems?

Lol - Get her to listen to these and compare some music vs TV builtin speakers - she will not complain again - I don't care what model/make TV you have - it's built-in speakers suck... (and sometimes suck really badly )

HTM-200 are really good SMALL bookshelf, but only in small rooms or in near field configuration - like computer desk.
You have a huge room, If you MUST stick to bookshelfs, I'd strongly recommend looking at mid-range Klipsch speakers with horn tweeters and pair of good subs

 

[Tin Ear]

... (and sometimes suck really badly )

Au contraire mon ami ... I think they do a great job at sucking .

 

[slipperybidness]

IF you go with the Infinity Primus, note that better deals can be had right now, and Frys does the 363 for $99 each from time to time:
Infinity P363BK
Infinity Primus P363 Floor-standing speaker at Crutchfield.com

Or better deal on last year's model on the pioneers
Newegg.com - Pioneer SP-FS51-LR Floorstanding Speakers Pair

 

[zieglj01]

These are nice, and also front ported
HTD Level Three
HTD Level THREE Bookshelf Speakers

Center
http://www.htd.com/Products/level-three-speakers/Level-THREE-Center-Channel-Speaker

 

[Thevinegru]

If the Denon AVR-1712 has 90 watts per channel, does a stand outperform a bookshelf when they both are getting the same maximum wattage?

Also, since I don't have the room for a sub AND center channel in the entertainment center, can I put the sub somewhere on the carpet off to the side? If not, I'm either gonna have to drop the center or get a sub small enough to fit in a 25" x 18" space with the AVR and a center speaker.

 

[zieglj01]

If the Denon AVR-1712 has 90 watts per channel, does a stand outperform a bookshelf when they both are getting the same maximum wattage?

Also, since I don't have the room for a sub AND center channel in the entertainment center, can I put the sub somewhere on the carpet off to the side? If not, I'm either gonna have to drop the center or get a sub small enough to fit in a 25" x 18" space with the AVR and a center speaker.

It takes more than just watts, the speaker sensitivity plays a part in
the speaker loudness - also the size and the number of drivers play a
part for the coverage/radiating area. And, speaker placement and room
enviorment, are important >> Overall, good towers can give you better
power handling, better radiating/coverage area. Depending on room size,
a good bookshelf with a good subwoofer, can give you an overall better
sound, compared to a tower around the same price point of the bookshelf.
A lot of cheap towers can have a poor cabinet, with thin panels and no
bracing - a good cabinet also plays a part in the sound. The crossover is
also important, and some companies cheap out on that area >> However
there are some budget friendly towers out there, that do sound good.

Your subwoofer will be better out in the room - some people use them
as end tables >> and that is better than being placed in a cabinet.

 

[Thevinegru]

Your subwoofer will be better out in the room - some people use them
as end tables.

lol my wife would have a coronary.

 

[slipperybidness]

lol my wife would have a coronary.

I'll go a step farther, I would not put the sub where you are suggesting under any circumstances. If it were me.